Tire moves in and out on axle

Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 16th 2010, 1:47am

Odd title, didn;t know how to word it.

Jacked the back of the van up. Passenger back tire goes in and out about 1/4 inch. (push in, pull out, push in, pull out) Checked the other side and maybe 1-2mm movement at best...

Tell me this isn't suposed to do this......... (and then give me suggestions) :banana:
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby Phantom » October 16th 2010, 2:42am

Maybe the wheel bearings are loose and worn
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 16th 2010, 2:44am

Anyway to check them without replacing? When I put the van on stands, started it and put it in drive, there was no rubbing of any sorts or any sounds for that matter.
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby offroad safari » October 16th 2010, 2:44am

is it possible that c-clip that holds the axle in place is worn? I'm sure someone that knows will post soon
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby Phantom » October 16th 2010, 3:03am

tex star detail wrote:Anyway to check them without replacing? When I put the van on stands, started it and put it in drive, there was no rubbing of any sorts or any sounds for that matter.

As I recall checking them is basically what you have done , but I don't recall how much movement is accepted ,,

The C-clips could be , they lock the axles in the diff , but wheel bearings are more prone for wearing , they sometimes make a noise when driving on the freeway like , if you put a ball bearing or marble in a metal drinking cup and make it go round in circles like a race track inside the metal cup ,
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby Gary » October 16th 2010, 3:38am

Tex-normally people don't jack up their vans to check how axles are different in how they move in and out.Could you please tell what make you do this??. :?: :confused:
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 16th 2010, 3:50am

Will do Gary....

About 2 weeks have went by with hearing a very very faint sound that can barely be heard. Everyone thinks I am nuts. Sounds like an unbalanced tire, but very minor. Thought nothing of it but road noise.....

Over that period, the braking seemed to be getting a clunking in the rear. Only when I hit the brakes and come to a complete stop. It feels like the vans drivetrain is loaded, and when I let off the brake, it feels like it falls back in place. Hard to describe I guess.

And still, I have been hearing under load, more-so from a stop, a slight vibration. Only until the van is not under a load. (I carry some weight in the van too, so I figured normal?) Almost like the axle is twisted up or down and causing the U-Joints to make noise. Though I know it is highly unlikely, I wanted to check under the van.

I just happend to grab the tire and shake it, sorta like you can do in the front tires at 12 and 6 o'clock to check for movement. I pulled out an dpushed in and was sort of shocked that they moved in and out.... Guess it just caught me by surprise...

As far as the C-clips go, the only way to check those are to pull the diff cover off, correct? How hard are they to replace? If too difficult, I have a shop that can do it or me. (if that is the problem of course)
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby astroturf » October 16th 2010, 3:56am

My Cup is neither half empty nor half full... But has a hole in it. Holy Cup Holders Batman. LOLz, Jim
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby TheRealDaddy » October 16th 2010, 4:08am

tex star detail wrote:As far as the C-clips go, the only way to check those are to pull the diff cover off, correct? How hard are they to replace?


Tex,
The C clips are very easy to access and replace once you have the over off. There is a single bolt in the middle of the diff that holds a pin where two of the diff gears are located. You pull that bolt then the pin slides out, the two gears may fall out but aren't hard to get back in when you replace the pin. To remove the c clips you simply push the axle in (like you were doing when you found your movement in the first place) and the clip will usually just fall off. The clip holds the gear on that drives the axle itself. When you see this and how simple it is you may be a little shocked at how small the piece is that holds your wheel in. (I know I was the first time I had one disassembled) Anyway it's not difficult at all but be warned, used gear oil has a very strong and pungent smell. Try not to get it on you, or you'll need more than a little hand cleaner to shed the funk.
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 16th 2010, 4:30am

PERFECT INFO!!!
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby Gary » October 16th 2010, 4:42am

Based on what you said,sounds more likely the percentages are in favor of a u-joint problem.I would guess you won't want to take apart something that wouldn't solve your issue.Btw-as far as I know-there are no shims for spider gears where the c-clips are seated.
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby d0nk3y » October 17th 2010, 2:45am

Gary,
I didn't check if my axle moved in and out like the OP's axle, however, if the spider gear is what the c-clip stops against (when an outward axial load is applied) - the shims between the spider gear would affect this movement. I don't see how it could be 1/4 of shims though, LOL!

I'd be interested in seeing this thing opened up, for sure!
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 17th 2010, 3:14am

I will try to get a vid of me moving it in and out later this weekend. I was "guesstimating" on the quarter inch, but it moves in and out for sure. More then the drivers side. More than I would care to know....

EDIT, I took a vid the other day, thought I deleted it. Still there :lol: Let me upload it. Make sure the sound is on as well.
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 17th 2010, 3:27am

video:
(sound on)
CLICK ON PIC
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby d0nk3y » October 17th 2010, 3:41am

dang! :D

Just curious, have you checked how much "slop" you have in your driveshaft? What I mean - while in neutral (parking brake applied) - get under the van and try rotating the driveshaft back and forth. My pinion had 10 or 15 degrees of this kind of movement and it ended up being lash in the spider gears. I wonder if worn out shims (that cause the extra lash) would be enough to cause that kind of movement?
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 17th 2010, 3:51am

I will have to go out to the garage to check the driveshaft.
So here's the ultimate question...... should I still drive the van? It's my work van and won't be able to get a free day until the week after next.

Give me a minute to report back on the driveshaft issue.....
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby Phantom » October 17th 2010, 4:02am

Gary wrote:Tex-normally people don't jack up their vans to check how axles are different in how they move in and out.Could you please tell what make you do this??. :?: :confused:

I was referring to the wheel bearings . Sorry for the confusion , I was not referring to the axles , just agreed with someone about C-Clips
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heat during operation. The center of the tread flexes upward and does NOT touch the surface of the road. Underinflation will cause rapid tread wear, loss of fuel economy, and possibly ply separation (plies tear away from each other). Uneven tire inflation pressure can cause steering wheel pull. For example, when a vehicle that ha’s the left front tire underinflated and the right front tire properly inflated, the vehicle has a tendency to pull to the left. The low air pressure in the left tire has more rolling resistance. This action tends to pull the steering wheel away from the normally inflated tire. Tire Vibration Problems When one of the front tires is vibrating, it can be felt in the steering wheel. When one of the rear tires is vibrating, the vibration can be felt in the center and rear of the vehicle. Tire vibration can be attributed to several problems, such as out-of-balance condition, ply separation, tire runout, a bent wheel, or tie cupping. Tire and Wheel-Bearing Noise Tire noise usually shows up as a whine due to abnormal tread wear or a thumping sound caused by ply separation. Tire replacement is required to correct these problems. Wheel-bearing noise is produced by dry, worn wheel bearings. The bearing will make a steady humming type sound. This is due to the rollers or balls being damaged from lack of lubrication and are no longer smooth. To check for a worn wheel bearing, raise and secure the vehicle, and rotate the tire by hand. Feel and listen carefully for bearing roughness. Also, wiggle the tire back and forth to check for bearing looseness. It may be necessary to disassemble the wheel bearing to verify the problem.

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My 1979 Corvette has 38000 miles and has the original rear wheel bearings.

What are the signs that the rear wheel bearings need replacing?
Type of noise while driving?
Handling of the car?
How to check for excess bearing play?


Jack up the car and grab the tire and move it at 3 & 9 o'clock.
If you have a lot of play, should only be 001-008" I would look closer. Typical factory settings are in the 3-4 range. You will probably find more play at 6 & 12 from the side yokes, The orignals were soft and by 40k miles were worn more them 050"


GTR is right on the 3-9 test. I think its the best way to check. My right rear made a sound like crushing gravel when it finally went. The left rear never went beyond a chirp.

Another test is to use an ir gun and check the temperature of the 4 wheel hubs. If your brakes are all good, a bad bearing will be hotter at the hub than the other wheels. The ir check works for ujoints too. A bad joint will be hotter.

Just a couple examples that shows that it is common to check for wheel bearing wear this way
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby RECox286 » October 17th 2010, 4:15am

Looked at your video, and I honestly don't think that the "play" is out of range. You have to take into account how the assembly is put together, and held together. There will be some slop. I doubt if you are moving the tire 1/4". More like less than 1/8". I would be more concerned at how much vertical movement there is, rather than the horizontal movement that is visible.

Ifyou really have any doubts, I would suggest that you remove the tire and drum, and set up a dial micrometer to record the movement. Check for any indication of gear lube leakage, in which case you will want to think about replacing the bearings and seals.

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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby tex star detail [OP] » October 17th 2010, 4:17am

When the vehicle was up off the ground, I spun both tires backwards and forward several times. Not the slightest sounds of a wheel bearing. I think I heard more in the differential than anything. Tried grabbing the tire at 6 and 12, then 3 and 9 o'clock and it didn't seem to move any direction. Then when I grabbed the sucked and pushed and pulled, that's when I found this movement....

Here is the vid of the driveshaft:
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Look normal? IIRC, any driveshaft that I have ever messed around with had this much play.....
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Re: Tire moves in and out on axle

Postby d0nk3y » October 17th 2010, 4:29am

I'd bet an adult soda that you're seeing excess lash in your spider gears like I was. That's exactly what my van did - going from park to reverse to neutral would make the driveline clunk and ring like nobody's business. Not sure if that would cause the excess movement, but, dang - that brings back unpleasant memories. :P

I don't know if it is a problem (safety or otherwise) - I can tell you my van's axle was really noisy when driving down the road.
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