Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Mmusicman » February 16th 2015, 2:32pm

WOW!!! Fantastic write-up and photos.. and amazing work!!!
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 16th 2015, 6:06pm

Lumpy wrote:Here we go...

Here's a mod to the mod I thought up while watching the thing do it's articulation. If we don't want the extension piece to flip rearward any more than this -

Weld in a little piece of steel here, that will keep that bracket from rotating any farther than straight out, away from the side of the van -

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Lump



:rofl:

Nice work Lump! :thumbup:

Some thoughts,
That little piece in the pic I quoted I think will interfere by hitting the door when closed. Grinding a chunk out of the stock roller is my next move I think as I believe in my itineration's that is a point causing stress when closed.
I had concerns about enlarging the stock bushings, seems to me a weak sister in the game. They look to be the same as used in the front hinges so we know where to find them.
How is your assembly in regards to slop? and movement that shouldn't be there?

Again, nice job and thanks for the info. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 16th 2015, 11:55pm

You were correct in your assumption. The metal stop, depicted in yellow lines, didn't work. I welded it in, it hit right where you said it might.

The door seems now to rest more on those joints/brackets than it did before. Seems like the van mounted trolley piece is grinding away at the bottom of it's channel. I relieved it there (the bracket) a little with an angle grinder. Little better.

It seems very articulated. When open the rear of the door hangs quite a bit low. Needs quite an upward and inward push to get it to close and latch. A handle on the outside rear of the door would be wonderful.

Today I took it apart, cleaned and painted it. Welded on tabs, ground off the same tabs when they didn't work, hammered and bent things a bit, repainted, reinstalled ...cleaned oily handprints off the rear quarter of the van.


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 17th 2015, 12:13am

That's why I moved the trolley wheel, moves it up in the channel.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 17th 2015, 7:08am

WoodButcher wrote:That's why I moved the trolley wheel, moves it up in the channel.


I looked into that. Mine is riveted or press pinned in place. I'm not going to dismantle it until I know I have a way to re-pin it in it's new spot.

I think(?) the outer trim piece has something to do with keeping the trolley in the track. When I remove the outer trim piece the trolly will simply lift out of the track (if it's disconnected from the door). So something keeps that trolley BACK and UP when it's in it's normal, working position.

Strange part of the van to become expert at.. :rofl:


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 17th 2015, 3:28pm

Have you removed the trolley? It comes out at the door opening.
Sorry I don't have a pic for it but the roller I moved is held with a shoulder bolt type rivet thing. Once the peened lip is drilled or ground off the roller and shoulder bolt pop right out, after enlarging the hole to an oval it was a fast weld to put back in.

I've had the cover off that track on my '97 when I changed my door. Looking back with what I know now I think it was an un-needed thing. I should have separated the trolley like we're doing here.
I digress,,,
I don't think that there was any allowance for movement of the track, I don't recall.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 17th 2015, 3:57pm

My trolly will dismount from the track anywhere as long as the trim cover is removed.

Track, you're correct, isn't adjustable for up/down, at least not easily. The studs and their bolt holes seem pretty precise. Trim cover seems to have a little more leeway. small, self tapping screws in the middle, larger bolts in the ends (one under the tail lamp).

Still experimenting today with the alignment of it all.


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Neb127 » February 17th 2015, 5:19pm

Not sure if this has been posted before and I know it's a cop out but this guy advertises them 'ready-made' - probably not as much fun as making your own and I don't know how old the site is

http://www.bkauto.net/ateamadditionalparts.htm
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby 97cargocrawler » February 17th 2015, 5:28pm

Neb127 wrote:Not sure if this has been posted before and I know it's a cop out but this guy advertises them 'ready-made' - probably not as much fun as making your own and I don't know how old the site is

http://www.bkauto.net/ateamadditionalparts.htm


Looking at that...WTF am I looking at?? What's a "sports van"? Don't look like no Stro to me.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby gavio » February 17th 2015, 6:05pm

Looking at that...WTF an I looking at?? What's a "sports van"? Don't look like no Stro to me.


It looks like my old G20... In those the door is suspended from a track along the drip rail.... The door extenders on those are relatively easy to install....
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 17th 2015, 8:00pm

Messed around with it for a few hours this morning. Ground this and that, sanded that thing and that other thing. Hammered, pounded, bent, vise squeezed...not a lot of improvement in "ease of opening/closing". Still closes and locks well if you assist it a bit with your left hand (needs handle back there). Opening requires two hands - one on the regular door handle, other to pull the back of the door out, away from the van.

Not really liking how the trolly rides low. Bending several parts, relieving metal from several parts, it just rides low.

WoodButch - Any close pics of your lowered large trolly wheel? I'm just not seeing how to access the bin/bolt/rivet in mine. Can you drill the entire thing out and replace it with something like a #10 bolt and nut?


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 17th 2015, 9:49pm

No pics at all of the trolley. If you take that puppy out, no need to remove the track cover. W. the door open on your jack the trolley will come out the front.
I did not replace the anything in the trolley, I used what I removed. If you look at the back of the large wheel it looks like a rivet, rolled edges and a hollow center. I held it against the fence of my drill press and drilled the top with a 3/8" bit just to take off the rolled edge. You could do this with a grinder as well. Punched it out with a nail set and 10 ounce hammer.
I made the hole an 1/8" lower with a large diameter chainsaw file and welded it back in.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 17th 2015, 10:02pm

36258
Sorry, best pic I could get and it's too cold to go back out. All I did was make the triangle of wheels bigger. By lowering the one the other two raise up. I went an 1/8" but it looks like I could have done more.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 18th 2015, 2:47pm

OK thanks. That helps. Grind off the rivet flange, move, weld in place. Tiny little weld!

Made an "assist handle" last night. Paint drying now. I'll post pics soon.


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby markmitch » February 18th 2015, 4:55pm

how about some serious fab work and put the two rear doors from one of them mini coopers into the place of the slider lol.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 18th 2015, 7:47pm

Here's the latest, and one of the "not so latest" mods -


STOP THE SWING:

Here's a mod that DIDN'T work. Tried adding a small piece of steel to act as a stop. This is shown and suggested in an above post with a concept draw-in. Here it is in prototype. .120 steel, welded, ground etc -

Image


Another angle of the same thing -

Image


Here it is mounted. The intent of the welded in piece is to NOT allow the extension piece to rotate any further back than the position it's in shown in the pic. It works for that. The stop "stops" the rotation. BUT the added thickness of the stop interferes with the door to jamb fit and won't allow the door to close -

Image



MOVE YOUR TROLLEY:

Next mod is the 'WoodyButch Trolley Relocation". On WB's advice, I ground off the mushroom of the rivet that holds that large wheel, drilled and filed a new hole about 1/4" lower, welded it all back together, painted etc. It fits but it's really tight. WB's was 1/8" and he thought he could go further. 1/4" is apparently too much further. 3/16 might be the optimum for any who attempt this. I'm guessing/hoping that use will loosen things up. It DOES cause the bracket to ride higher, the intent of the mod. No more scraping on the bottom of the channel -

Image



PAINT EVERYTHING:

Lumpy's rule of R&R. If you remove a part, clean it and paint it. Paint table is an old sewing machine cabinet from neighbor's trash. "Hold down clamp" is a Webster's dictionary from about 1970. For you whippersnappers out there, they used to actually print a hard copy list of words and how to spell and pronounce them. That was before there were smart phones, dumb phones, cellphones, anything but black, heavy, dial phones. Vocal students always bought them, not because they needed to spell anything, but because they were a heavy book. Lie on your back, place heavy book on your Abs, sing. Builds abdominal six-pack -

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Allow the overspray to hit the weeds and you kill the weed at the same time. Maybe before they die I'll paint my weeds camo -

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CAN WE GET A LITTLE HELP HERE?:

Here's the most helpful mod of the bunch. "Rear Assist" handle. EMT conduit welded to a piece of angle iron from a bedframe (both repurposed trash - the things people throw away!) -

Image


Grab the assist handle while you're opening. Pull the rear of the door OUT and a little UP while opening.

Image


Same in reverse. When closing, use the assist handle to lift the rear of the door UPward so the latch aligns. If you don't align it, you get the dreaded "Locked door while open" thing where you have to hold the door handle open and pry the latch to the open position with a screwdriver -

Image


Nuts on the inside. Grind the bolts flush. Paint. They don't interfere with closing. Note the high tech "squish" washer on the bottom nut. We're bolting two thin pieces of sheet metal together that have a natural space between them of maybe 1/8". Tightening the nut and bolt(s) clamps and deforms the sheet metal, and apparently the washer on that bottom one. I'm fine with that. Probably makes the area stronger and the squish probably helps lock the nut in place -

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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby 97cargocrawler » February 18th 2015, 8:08pm

Wow! Some folks have tooooo much free time. Is that RUST damage I see there by the trolley cover?

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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 18th 2015, 8:30pm

97cargocrawler wrote:
Wow! Some folks have tooooo much free time...



Only 24 hours in a day. If there were more I'd have even more time to work on my van. Maybe add hot and cold running water or something.


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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby WoodButcher » February 19th 2015, 2:46am

Good deal Lump. I looked at that pic bert posted for at least a year. Glad we finally got it figured.
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Re: Solving the Slider Door with Big Tires Problem

Postby Lumpy [OP] » February 19th 2015, 3:34am

What I'm having a little trouble understanding is -

Why is the trolley so stressed when the extender is in place? Without the extender, the thing flops freely. Seems like zero weight on the trolley when the door is open. Like it's just there to keep the door from falling outward. With the extender, suddenly there's a lot of weight bearing DOWN on the thing.

Oh well. Thank YOU for taking up the challenge.


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