V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby WoodButcher » December 15th 2016, 11:42pm

chevymaher wrote:
Maybe I should revise my statement now, I hate factory computers in cars. That one I could deal with.



I could be wrong but I think this is what AndyH was saying to begin with.
I just paid over $800 to buy the large bore TBI for my '93. If I had the know how to install and run the new stand alone Holley, to separate the engine and trans I would have gone that road. No way would I go carb because I don't know the in's and outs of them and if I were to spend the time to learn it would be EFI. No one is likely to build a new vehicle with a carb so I can't see spending the time to learn.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaher [OP] » December 16th 2016, 3:44am

WoodButcher wrote:
chevymaher wrote:
Maybe I should revise my statement now, I hate factory computers in cars. That one I could deal with.



I could be wrong but I think this is what AndyH was saying to begin with.
I just paid over $800 to buy the large bore TBI for my '93. If I had the know how to install and run the new stand alone Holley, to separate the engine and trans I would have gone that road. No way would I go carb because I don't know the in's and outs of them and if I were to spend the time to learn it would be EFI. No one is likely to build a new vehicle with a carb so I can't see spending the time to learn.

That is exactly why I hate computers. They are tied into everything and nothing works if you disable any part of it. Kind of killing the being able to modify things deal. So far all these know it alls don't know the simplest things. All talk but ask a actual question they don't know squat. Just insults you don't understand. Well if you know enlighten me Eisenstein.

And anybody involved in them is a smartazz. They don't want to help you just let you know how superior they are to you.

Anyway better late than never. Took me years to find out. But if you use a 700R4 with a VSS. The speedo and ABS will work in the dinosaur 95 and earlier vans. Just leave the rest of the system unhooked. Disarming all better and easier baloney involved. Then you are free to play and modify and install a FI computer without shutting down the rest of the van. Or carb what ever you so desire. Maybe I am wrong but the trans now became a huge added expense of a modification that didn't involve it at all. So we went in my case from just popping on a fuel system to disabling a computers meddling idiots designed to stop me from doing it.

And I as well went the larger TBI route untill the trans dies and I got to get a new one anyway. I have had the trans I going to use for years. I been gathering parts forever for this. Made a 200 dollar weekend swap into a few thousand dollars in all the other crap that needs changed over to disarm the better and easier from turning off the van. I may be odd but if it is directly costing me money I count it and blame what caused it. Cost of disabling everything hooked to the computer and changing it.

And your right even a FI change makes a trans change needed to accomplish it. But that computer is on the way out if I go FI or carb. It is a POS junk system and needs to go. Just let it do what it is good for run the speedo.

And like Will suggested using a newer OEM system. Same thing I basically need a running vehicle in good shape to have the electronics and engine/trans to do it. Newer electronics will not work with my engine or trans. And newer 6's don't have the power because they don't have heads like that. So basically It would be just easier to get a good running camaro with a LS motor in it and just drive it. That don't help the van much tho does it.

Maybe I am wrong. But just seems like a huge bunch of crap to get a better intake. Anyway you going about it. No computer just bolt what I got on and go on with life. Get it done and be driving in one day. Or go through all this.

The problem with complex systems is the ones who design it. If each system was separate and not made to shut the rest down. I be singing a different tune.

Just a side note. Anybody ever put a body or engine computer in the new buicks and montes. Ever try to get the computer to sync and communicate so anything works. Call a dealer see if anybody there knows how I dare you. It isn't getting better Will is right.

They should start a new car co. like GM and just call it BIC. With the sales slogan "The new throw away cars"

I mess with both new and old. I am learning the new junk as well. LS motors got cheap kits now to run just the ignition system. It is still a computer nut not a POS one. They sell carb intakes for them. And they are the next small block chevy. Getting cheaper put out 425 horse easily once you kill the computer meddling with little work. Just a cam that isn't computer friendly and the ol bucket with holes in it. That is what the street rodders are up to these days.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 16th 2016, 6:15am

WoodButcher wrote:I just paid over $800 to buy the large bore TBI for my '93. If I had the know how to install and run the new stand alone Holley, to separate the engine and trans I would have gone that road. No way would I go carb because I don't know the in's and outs of them and if I were to spend the time to learn it would be EFI. No one is likely to build a new vehicle with a carb so I can't see spending the time to learn.

I agree 100%, if you are going to learn, learn for the future and not the past.

chevymaher wrote:That is exactly why I hate computers. They are tied into everything and nothing works if you disable any part of it. Kind of killing the being able to modify things deal. So far all these know it alls don't know the simplest things. All talk but ask a actual question they don't know squat. Just insults you don't understand. Well if you know enlighten me Eisenstein.


Well, you can go carb right now and leave the computers to control the transmission/ABS/etc, nothing stopping that at all.

chevymaher wrote:Anyway better late than never. Took me years to find out. But if you use a 700R4 with a VSS. The speedo and ABS will work in the dinosaur 95 and earlier vans. Just leave the rest of the system unhooked. Disarming all better and easier baloney involved. Then you are free to play and modify and install a FI computer without shutting down the rest of the van. Or carb what ever you so desire. Maybe I am wrong but the trans now became a huge added expense of a modification that didn't involve it at all. So we went in my case from just popping on a fuel system to disabling a computers meddling idiots designed to stop me from doing it.

But you CAN, and you can still use the transmission that is in there, you don't have to swap out the transmission, leave the 4l60e in there.

chevymaher wrote:And your right even a FI change makes a trans change needed to accomplish it. But that computer is on the way out if I go FI or carb. It is a POS junk system and needs to go. Just let it do what it is good for run the speedo.

Again, leave the computer in to shift the transmission.

chevymaher wrote:And like Will suggested using a newer OEM system. Same thing I basically need a running vehicle in good shape to have the electronics and engine/trans to do it. Newer electronics will not work with my engine or trans. And newer 6's don't have the power because they don't have heads like that. So basically It would be just easier to get a good running camaro with a LS motor in it and just drive it. That don't help the van much tho does it.

You would need the PCM, wiring harness, sensors, new timing chain cover with sensor, and add a reclutor ring to the balancer, should be about it. And depending on which computer/OS you decide to use, some programming to disable things like VATS, tank pressure/alternator codes, etc.

However, if you want to keep your TBI for some reason, and don't want to use the factory PCM to control the engine, you can use the $340 microsquirt https://www.diyautotune.com/product/mic ... g-harness/

Or if you want to tune your factory computer, For about $350, you can use http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-pac ... l?cPath=64 for datalogging, reading, burning, realtime emulation, etc.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby markmitchmarkmitch is online! » December 16th 2016, 7:37am

I did that study for my own reasons before I moved here back in 2013 I doubt I could find the sources now but if you think about it why is it that only California and mainly southern California has a smog problem? New England has as many if not more cars and yet no smog? And they have no refineries or chrome factories even close to the area. Kinda funny how California comes up with this idea that its from cars and the state makes billions a year off of us just from smog tests and such. Maybe my study was flawed but not as much as the state's laws. And why are they not going after the manufacturer's too? Just saying......
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 16th 2016, 8:06am

markmitch wrote:I did that study for my own reasons before I moved here back in 2013 I doubt I could find the sources now but if you think about it why is it that only California and mainly southern California has a smog problem? New England has as many if not more cars and yet no smog? And they have no refineries or chrome factories even close to the area. Kinda funny how California comes up with this idea that its from cars and the state makes billions a year off of us just from smog tests and such. Maybe my study was flawed but not as much as the state's laws. And why are they not going after the manufacturer's too? Just saying......

So by 'a study' you mean you looked some **** up? Or you actually did 'a study' as in a written account of such research, examination, or analysis?
The geography has a large part to play in it as well, but I'm sure you know that already seeing that you did 'a study' on it.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaher [OP] » December 16th 2016, 9:43am

AstroWill wrote:
You would need the PCM, wiring harness, sensors, new timing chain cover with sensor, and add a reclutor ring to the balancer, should be about it. And depending on which computer/OS you decide to use, some programming to disable things like VATS, tank pressure/alternator codes, etc.

However, if you want to keep your TBI for some reason, and don't want to use the factory PCM to control the engine, you can use the $340 microsquirt https://www.diyautotune.com/product/mic ... g-harness/

Or if you want to tune your factory computer, For about $350, you can use http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-pac ... l?cPath=64 for datalogging, reading, burning, realtime emulation, etc.


I have thought in the past maybe they are right. Looked into all this stuff for 6 years now. Object is better performance, not have a computer so I can say I do. Those are my priorities. I don't have smog and don't got to fool with that stuff if I don't have to. So what works better and easier is what I will do. Cheaper is also way out front in the decision making process.

Okay first the reluctor ring for the crank sensor is on the crankshaft. Crank needs pulled and machined so it can be pressed on. Newer systems do not have a TBI and the newer intake wont fit. The newer intake is 30 less HP and I am trying to increase power not kill it. So that is counter productive anyway.

Object is maximize the power the heads I have got. By tuning. They are the reason the little engine runs the way it does so changing them to use the computer system again is just a lame counter productive idea. I would go through all these suggested changes to lose over 100 HP. Your not thinking this through and working with me here. Just trying to make me look silly.

Second the intake if your following this that is the actual part I want replaced. It is light years ahead of the CPI style for power but still has a fuel distribution issue. A elderbrock is bar none the best intake for the job. So it would be lame to pay 350 bucks to keep it. Since with TBI is all that fits it. Alot of money for a mega squirt to keep the part I actually want to replace.

The tuner is a joke. My computer needs a socket put in it with adapter to use the chips. No gen 1 has a programmable timing curve period. It is a 20 degree all or nothing advance. Worst part of the early computer systems. Guy actually sold a 94 vette over this to get a different year. Nobody can program them correctly. You can't pay to have it done. I called every lead I was ever given. Went to forums and ask the Gurus on the tuner site. It isn't happening.

I did leave out the 700R4 VSS deal would also control the converter lock up @40 mph If you use a carb with a TPS it controls it correctly at all speeds and throttle settings. It is a stand alone system it don't care about nothing but those 2 sensors working.

Once the Distributor is changed to a HEI. The timing issue that can't be programmed out. The 4l60E transmission can't be used. Computer can't control the shift functions with out the factory distributor. l called trans shops did the tuner forums. Computer can't control the shift functions with out the factory module in place in the distributor. If my sources are wrong feel free to clue me in.

So it would need a separate aftermarket trans controller to be used. So again work with me here a little should I pay to control a trans that has 300 thousand. A trans will not work anyway once the changes are made. Or just wait and get a better trans. Come on be fair.

The factory computer is the worst trans controller I have ever seen. It hunts and pecks for gears @40 mph. Light throttle it locks up the converter and shifts to overdrive. Let off the gas it shifts to 3rd and unlocks it. Exactly the opposite of what it should be doing. So you have to avoid certain speeds to keep from lugging the engine or just nail it to downshift. And if you got any power that is kinda red looking when it is jumping like your trying to race. Just to pull a tiny hill. Planning your speed as you approach a hill so it don't shift to overdrive in lock up and lug up a cliff. Or speed so it is in the power a little say 1600 rpm. I got the power to do it and it isn't good on anything to lug at 1100 rpm. Only other option is gas it it drops to second and lay rubber. I kinda think a gentle drop to 3rd and pull would be the optimum way to handle that. Just the way the pre computer cars did it when you gassed it. Say a 700R4.

I like to control the trans shifting with my driving. Not the trans forcing me to drive a certain way to avoid damaging things. It could be programmed out if I wanted to pay way to much to do it. And for Whatever reason I worshipped the computer as a god and had to have it. But since it will not work at all for other things above mentioned. That would be a waste of time and money since it is going to be gone anyway.

So in closing here. I am liking the engine I got and just wanting to upgrade it. I am going to do that. I do not want to redesign the engine and loose power just to please someone dissing me because a computer is a hack way to do it. There is a easier cheaper way than putting in 2 separate computers to run separate systems. Trans, and EFI.

So follow me here. If I follow your recommendations I got less power and a trans with 300 thousand miles for how much money. Or should I use that same money and get a new trans. Use the parts I already got HEI and intake and have more and smoother power than it has now.

True the computers are the wave of the future. But on mine I have a choice it is at the transitional stage. Both work. I ain't throwing the baby out with the bath water. And like it or not in this instance with the engine I have. A computer is not the better or easier option.

Basically the issue is the only power options for the 6 are non computer in boats. I found a way to spend little or no money to get power from it. I like it. Just planning normal maintenance in advance. Letting that be the upgrades. Replacing the parts that are holding it back as they wear out. She is my daily driver not a project car that sits while I sort out all that baloney. I got the chev for that. Spending money for no other reason but to be doing it.

Honestly if I didn't like the van and the 6. It would be gone. If it still ran the way it did when I got it. After the wreck it would have been gone. It is my driver I love it. To me it is cool simply because it should not run the way it does. Like I always say. The local reception of the van is good unlike the opinions on this site. Which is kinda backwards.

If I did get the motor everyone thinks I should put in the van I would just drive what I got it in. Then I wouldn't be here and have to listen to this nonsense all the time.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 16th 2016, 10:41am

AstroWill wrote:
You would need the PCM, wiring harness, sensors, new timing chain cover with sensor, and add a reclutor ring to the balancer, should be about it. And depending on which computer/OS you decide to use, some programming to disable things like VATS, tank pressure/alternator codes, etc.

However, if you want to keep your TBI for some reason, and don't want to use the factory PCM to control the engine, you can use the $340 microsquirt https://www.diyautotune.com/product/mic ... g-harness/

Or if you want to tune your factory computer, For about $350, you can use http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-pac ... l?cPath=64 for datalogging, reading, burning, realtime emulation, etc.


chevymaher wrote:Okay first the reluctor ring for the crank sensor is on the crankshaft. Crank needs pulled and machined so it can be pressed on. Newer systems do not have a TBI and the newer intake wont fit. The newer intake is 30 less HP and I am trying to increase power not kill it. So that is counter productive anyway.

That was in the response to not being able to use a newer OEM computer, and yes adding the reluctor ring would make everything forward of that further out, so you would have to make up space otherwise the pulley will stick out further. Not saying that is YOUR best bet, I wouldn't bother doing it that way unless you were going to individual injectors for each cyl. Just that it would be an option if you wanted to use a newer GM PCM.

chevymaher wrote:Object is maximize the power the heads I have got. By tuning. They are the reason the little engine runs the way it does so changing them to use the computer system again is just a lame counter productive idea. I would go through all these suggested changes to lose over 100 HP.

chevymaher wrote:Your not thinking this through and working with me here. Just trying to make me look silly.

Not trying to make you look silly at all, I do consider you a friend and so that is not my objective at all. Slightly insulted, but will get over it after a nap ;)

chevymaher wrote:Second the intake if your following this that is the actual part I want replaced. It is light years ahead of the CPI style for power but still has a fuel distribution issue. A elderbrock is bar none the best intake for the job. So it would be lame to pay 350 bucks to keep it. Since with TBI is all that fits it. Alot of money for a mega squirt to keep the part I actually want to replace.

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but if you want to use that intake, and keep the TBI, then yes, the MS can control the TBI unit. My comment was because you were saying that you hate OEM computers, well you don't have to keep it for engine control if you don't want to, there are other options that still allow you to keep the TBI.

chevymaher wrote:The tuner is a joke. My computer needs a socket put in it with adapter to use the chips. No gen 1 has a programmable timing curve period. It is a 20 degree all or nothing advance. Worst part of the early computer systems. Guy actually sold a 94 vette over this to get a different year. Nobody can program them correctly. You can't pay to have it done. I called every lead I was ever given. Went to forums and ask the Gurus on the tuner site. It isn't happening.
Doesn't sound right, but I'm too tired ;)

chevymaher wrote:I did leave out the 700R4 VSS deal would also control the converter lock up @40 mph If you use a carb with a TPS it controls it correctly at all speeds and throttle settings. It is a stand alone system it don't care about nothing but those 2 sensors working.


chevymaher wrote:The 4l60E transmission can't be used. Computer can't control the shift functions with out the factory distributor. l called trans shops did the tuner forums. Computer can't control the shift functions with out the factory module in place in the distributor. If my sources are wrong feel free to clue me in.

https://sites.google.com/site/astrosafa ... ontrollers
chevymaher wrote:So it would need a separate aftermarket trans controller to be used. So again work with me here a little should I pay to control a trans that has 300 thousand. A trans will not work anyway once the changes are made. Or just wait and get a better trans. Come on be fair.

See above.
chevymaher wrote:The factory computer is the worst trans controller I have ever seen. It hunts and pecks for gears @40 mph. Light throttle it locks up the converter and shifts to overdrive. Let off the gas it shifts to 3rd and unlocks it. Exactly the opposite of what it should be doing. So you have to avoid certain speeds to keep from lugging the engine or just nail it to downshift. And if you got any power that is kinda red looking when it is jumping like your trying to race. Just to pull a tiny hill. Planning your speed as you approach a hill so it don't shift to overdrive in lock up and lug up a cliff. Or speed so it is in the power a little say 1600 rpm. I got the power to do it and it isn't good on anything to lug at 1100 rpm. Only other option is gas it it drops to second and lay rubber. I kinda think a gentle drop to 3rd and pull would be the optimum way to handle that. Just the way the pre computer cars did it when you gassed it. Say a 700R4.

I like to control the trans shifting with my driving. Not the trans forcing me to drive a certain way to avoid damaging things. It could be programmed out if I wanted to pay way to much to do it. And for Whatever reason I worshipped the computer as a god and had to have it. But since it will not work at all for other things above mentioned. That would be a waste of time and money since it is going to be gone anyway.

Nobody here is saying that it has to be done that way, or that you have to keep it, or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that it can be done.

chevymaher wrote:So in closing here. I am liking the engine I got and just wanting to upgrade it. I am going to do that. I do not want to redesign the engine and loose power just to please someone dissing me because a computer is a hack way to do it. There is a easier cheaper way than putting in 2 separate computers to run separate systems. Trans, and EFI.

So follow me here. If I follow your recommendations I got less power and a trans with 300 thousand miles for how much money. Or should I use that same money and get a new trans. Use the parts I already got HEI and intake and have more and smoother power than it has now.

Again, it may not apply to your specific set of circumstances, but it can be done for those that want to keep their existing transmission and use the existing PCM to control it while switching to a carb or whatever.

chevymaher wrote:True the computers are the wave of the future. But on mine I have a choice it is at the transitional stage. Both work. I ain't throwing the baby out with the bath water. And like it or not in this instance with the engine I have. A computer is not the better or easier option.

Basically the issue is the only power options for the 6 are non computer in boats. I found a way to spend little or no money to get power from it. I like it. Just planning normal maintenance in advance. Letting that be the upgrades. Replacing the parts that are holding it back as they wear out. She is my daily driver not a project car that sits while I sort out all that baloney. I got the chev for that. Spending money for no other reason but to be doing it.

Honestly if I didn't like the van and the 6. It would be gone. If it still ran the way it did when I got it. After the wreck it would have been gone. It is my driver I love it. To me it is cool simply because it should not run the way it does. Like I always say. The local reception of the van is good unlike the opinions on this site. Which is kinda backwards.

If I did get the motor everyone thinks I should put in the van I would just drive what I got it in. Then I wouldn't be here and have to listen to this nonsense all the time.
[/quote]
Of course, you are on engine #3 in that van, all of the 6s, obviously if you had wanted something different you would have done it at the first or second engine change.
Like I said Randy, it's doable in many ways, doesn't mean that it's the way that YOU should do it. We are here for discussions, ideas, and hearing about different opinions and options. Otherwise there are plenty of 'non-interactive' sites that we could go to for repair information etc.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaher [OP] » December 16th 2016, 1:56pm

Now that was helpful. The page on using the 93 and up computer as a trans controller. I have ask if the HEI tach signal would work as the RPM pulse and I was always told no it was different.

Don't help with the shifting but it does open up new options. If I knew that the HEI would have went in with either of the new engines when I did them. Reprogramming shift points is a easier deal to do. Still a major pain and alot of work tho. I will look into that part. Re evaluating options.

I wonder why they didn't list the earlier computers. 93 has the removable programmable chip. I got a 90 computer still and they have the programmable chip. I can buy a reprogrammed chip for a reasonable price for that. Programming places I talked to online do know how to do that with out trial and error. Now is the computer plug and play in my existing wiring harness. Next :banghead: adventure.

Sorry I insulted you. Forgive me for being a big cranky baby sometimes. This computer issue has bugged me a long time. My van should have had the 4 bbl and HEI on it long long ago. Finding information is like pulling teeth. Practicality no one knows anything about modifying the computer system. Only thing they know how to do is use it as is. With the inherent flaws it has. Mainly timing and fuel control programming. They all got the shift programming down.

Fuel control is burn a chip put it in see if it works if not do another. All tuners suggest keeping the stock chip as a backup because it may not run at all. Don't sound like it is as exact a science as we are being led to believe. That is a huge difference between being perfect and it won't run. Sounds alot like guessing to me. You don't get the perfect air fuel ratio guessing.

Unlike the carb world. These are the heads I got and this is the cam. They send you the carb perfect first time. That sounds like a more predictable science to me.

Estimates I got were months of back and forth to get it right when trying to get it done. I did find a guy in Cincinnati who would try. But he couldn't promise it would even work right. Gen 1 computers apparently are sketchy. Most professional tuners will not even do it because it is such a nightmare. Like I said i been on the horn and followed every lead I was ever given.

Basically you need alot more tools than I got. A dyno and major scan tools with TV sized readouts to do it right. Or it is no different than doing a carb. Just trial and error seat of the pants dyno testing. Kinda eliminating any advantage a computer would have just guessing. Or I could have ended up with a mr_roboto van that didn't run and just sat because the computer was messed up. And he does programming for a living. That is the mega-squirt adventure.

At that point I decided it runs good deal with the issues drive around them. Modify the TBI a touch. And just wait bide my time till the parts holding me back wore out and needed replaced anyway.

I have had a bunch of that engines in the van. Again to tell the truth I wouldn't have fixed it if I couldn't find the same one I got. Finding those heads isn't easy they are fairly rare and people snap them up. S-10 guys love them. I have seem some impressive dyno runs using them. Van would still be sitting there as I hunted for parts.

And I would be driving and fixing the truck instead. I could care less how it runs as long as it does. It's job is snow. It is a V-8 it runs well enough. Not as good as the van. But power isnt necessarily a good thing when driving in the snow. Mushy bla powerbands do better for pulling. Snapping the tires loose hard isn't effective. Different end goal for the vehicle. Just get me there without ending up upside down in a ditch while it is snowing.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 16th 2016, 2:18pm

chevymaher wrote:I wonder why they didn't list the earlier computers. 93 has the removable programmable chip.

Because the years before that didn't have the 4l60e, they were still using the 700r4 with the mechanical shift linkage and TV cable, so no electronic shifting.

chevymaher wrote:Sorry I insulted you. Forgive me for being a big cranky baby sometimes. This computer issue has bugged me a long time. My van should have had the 4 bbl and HEI on it long long ago. Finding information is like pulling teeth. Practicality no one knows anything about modifying the computer system.

No worries, we all go there from time to time. I know this has been a thorn in your side for a while. I think it's time to get rid of that thorn.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaher [OP] » December 16th 2016, 2:24pm

AstroWill wrote:Because the years before that didn't have the 4l60e, they were still using the 700r4 with the mechanical shift linkage and TV cable, so no electronic shifting.

Duh I should have known that. LOL. 90 is also where I got the 700R4 from.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 18th 2016, 7:06am

See, sometimes threadjacks spur good conversations :)
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » February 11th 2017, 3:58am

AstroWill wrote:
chevymaher wrote:The tuner is a joke. My computer needs a socket put in it with adapter to use the chips. No gen 1 has a programmable timing curve period. It is a 20 degree all or nothing advance. Worst part of the early computer systems. Guy actually sold a 94 vette over this to get a different year. Nobody can program them correctly. You can't pay to have it done. I called every lead I was ever given. Went to forums and ask the Gurus on the tuner site. It isn't happening.


Doesn't sound right, but I'm too tired ;)


Needing a socket to use a different, programmable chip in your PCM doesn't seem like that big of a deal. What is wrong with using a pin/socket adapter?

As far as the timing, if yours isn't moving with the computer and if it's an all or nothing deal, that is limp-home mode for the ICM. Either a bad ICM, PCM, wiring, timing bypass disconnected, stuff like that.

As far as I know, all of the GM ICM modules with the exception of the 4pin ICM all have computer controlled timing.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby markmitchmarkmitch is online! » February 11th 2017, 5:12am

My study of the smog originated back like 20 years ago in college, then fast forward to 2012/2013 I did a brief study again prior to moving here to California and the only thing that changed was that instead of the majority of smog coming from Texas and New Mexico it has switched to the majority coming from Mexico. The reason for the majority change is due to Mexico not having anything close to our EPA so they have chrome factories, paper mills and oil refineries (not sure on the refineries) Anyway I did not do an extensive study like I did years ago in college this last time as I just wanted to know why the state of Ca is/was so anal about the smog crap I did it cause I was interested not to tell the world ok. I have no problem having a catalytic converter on my Astro but since its 28 years old and is an antique in every state but California and getting harder and harder to find parts they should not expect me to have every little part to the air cleaner and such its just about money as is everything in this communist state.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » February 11th 2017, 5:50am

markmitch wrote:My study of the smog originated back like 20 years ago in college, then fast forward to 2012/2013 I did a brief study again prior to moving here to California and the only thing that changed was that instead of the majority of smog coming from Texas and New Mexico it has switched to the majority coming from Mexico. The reason for the majority change is due to Mexico not having anything close to our EPA so they have chrome factories, paper mills and oil refineries (not sure on the refineries) Anyway I did not do an extensive study like I did years ago in college this last time as I just wanted to know why the state of Ca is/was so anal about the smog crap I did it cause I was interested not to tell the world ok. I have no problem having a catalytic converter on my Astro but since its 28 years old and is an antique in every state but California and getting harder and harder to find parts they should not expect me to have every little part to the air cleaner and such its just about money as is everything in this communist state.


Like I said, I would like to see any credible research that supports your findings.

What engine/emission parts are not available?
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjacki

Postby chevymaher [OP] » February 11th 2017, 7:44am

AstroWill wrote:Like I said, I would like to see any credible research that supports your findings.

What engine/emission parts are not available?


There is a bunch of it just look. EPA was having a points program. If cars were so clean in a state. They gave the points to the factories which already were making 90% of the pollution. And they basically got off scott free. Didn't have to reduce emissions. There is a bunch of things. Air carried pollutants that came from states away and only were there due to the air pocket. Like the trash in the ocean. Miles of plastic that came from all over the world. But it all gathered there and is stuck because of currents. Same thing with the air and pollution. And it just goes on and on.

I believe he is talking about the gen 1 air cleaner assembly. With the air duct system that passes through the core support. And calif is a pricks just because they can be it wont pass unless it is there because it was factory. Don't matter if it actually does anything to reduce emissions. It is just part of the money making racket out there, But pay the referee and your car can literally be a gross polluter and pass with out any smog equipment at all. It is all about money and not about emissions out there. A simple talking out the side of their neck money scam.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » February 11th 2017, 8:11am

My google-fu must not be working today then.

I can't imagine a first gen air cleaner assy, or any of the plastic parts that go to it are hard to come by. I'm sure a lot are discontinued from GM, doesn't make any sense for them to keep stock of something like that. Tons available in the yards.

CM, look a couple of posts up, is that what yours is doing?


Lets go back to Pittsburgh in the 30s :)
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaher [OP] » February 11th 2017, 9:10am

Actually most of the parts are discontinued and cant be found except in a junk yard. E bay it they ain't there. If it isn't on E bay it isn't going to be found. If the vehicle was ever worked on those things are gone. Because they were a pain to put back on and were not needed. Computer parts, even the specs and trouble shooting guides are deleted from dealer computers after a few years.

Yes the smog is a scary picture. But if you do the exhaustive research finding out what actually caused it. It was the refineries. Same as in china today. Isn't the cars doing it. They will come right out and say it about china they cant make money running their scam there. But the Jet stream is carrying it other places so it is worth a honorable mention to them.

Another good example I am aware of since I live near a airport. Look up the pollution a single jet aircraft puts out on startup. How many years would it take 100 people in gross polluting cars to produce what it does in 3 minutes. Are they going after the airlines Hummmm no because they got money. Empty planes just cruising around on schedule because it makes money. I have ridden on several planes running 12 hours straight that had almost nobody on them crossing the ocean going to asia before.

Again it is a slight of hand magician routine to make money. How can they pull the wool over your eyes if they come right out and say it. Look I don't care about pollution I just see a easy way to make money off of you. And your so gullible you believe anything. Even if I change my mind every couple years.

If they don't create the illusion they are helping. People are greedy enough to make a stink. Hey that is costing me a fortune and isn't doing anything.

If they were really attacking the source of it I may be more inclined to believe them.

Joke is this stuff just makes us sick. What about the nuclear waste in cans that is past its life expectancy. At the bottom of the ocean and in the ground all over the place. They know it is leaking and it will eventually kill humanity . But not in our lifetime so let it leak right. No money to be made there move along. The big money is making more of it and that is what they doing. Picking up the pace. We got bigger things to worry about.

But I guess ignorance is bliss.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » February 11th 2017, 9:40am

chevymaher wrote:Actually most of the parts are discontinued and cant be found except in a junk yard. E bay it they ain't there. If it isn't on E bay it isn't going to be found. If the vehicle was ever worked on those things are gone.

Looks like the elbows are still in stock, so I guess it just depends on what parts he needs.

The front air duct? If this is it they still have it available.
duct.png
duct.png (85.88 KiB) Viewed 49 times



Edit: If they are that hard to find and valuable, I will sell them off of mine, I have 3 first gen Astros sitting here, let me know what parts you need.


AstroWill wrote:
AstroWill wrote:
chevymaher wrote:The tuner is a joke. My computer needs a socket put in it with adapter to use the chips. No gen 1 has a programmable timing curve period. It is a 20 degree all or nothing advance. Worst part of the early computer systems. Guy actually sold a 94 vette over this to get a different year. Nobody can program them correctly. You can't pay to have it done. I called every lead I was ever given. Went to forums and ask the Gurus on the tuner site. It isn't happening.


Doesn't sound right, but I'm too tired ;)


Needing a socket to use a different, programmable chip in your PCM doesn't seem like that big of a deal. What is wrong with using a pin/socket adapter?

As far as the timing, if yours isn't moving with the computer and if it's an all or nothing deal, that is limp-home mode for the ICM. Either a bad ICM, PCM, wiring, timing bypass disconnected, stuff like that.

As far as I know, all of the GM ICM modules with the exception of the 4pin ICM all have computer controlled timing.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby sixsix » February 12th 2017, 4:48am


GOLLY




Mike
The Van's Build: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=59385


There are 3 types of people in this world - First, the type that can count
and Second, the type that can't.

.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » February 12th 2017, 4:57am

sixsix wrote:
GOLLY




Miss Molly
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