V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby sixsix » December 14th 2016, 3:34pm

To quote Corey Feldman :

" I Love this Street ... "

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
( but then again... I Love this Dancing Wrench wielding Banana also )

Mike

ps: and who did not see "all that" coming ?
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Mmusicman » December 14th 2016, 3:46pm

Thanks Lump for the support, and common sense comments, on what has turned into a ridiculous thread. :D
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Lumpy » December 14th 2016, 4:42pm

Mmusicman wrote:
Thanks Lump for the support, and common sense comments...



Just being fraganembulous.


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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby 97cargocrawler » December 14th 2016, 5:15pm

I'm driving a carburated Toyota vehicle from 1982 right now. The carb is by no means simple in construction nor is it easy to tune. The jets should get swapped out with each season it seems. Even then it would need to be tuned 3 times a day to run efficiently. Carbs are fun, not simple. In one of these vans it would drive me crazy.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Mmusicman » December 14th 2016, 7:31pm

I have carbs on just about everything I have ever owned... don't EVER have to touch them.
Certainly they "can" have issues... just like anything else. But hasn't been the case for me.

But for EVERY guy that has had issues with a carb... I can show you just as many (if not more) that have had issues with their fuel injection systems... or any of the many complex devices they rely on to work correctly.

Pretty much a moot point.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 14th 2016, 9:37pm

Mmusicman wrote:But for EVERY guy that has had issues with a carb... I can show you just as many (if not more) that have had issues with their fuel injection systems... or any of the many complex devices they rely on to work correctly.


Out of the 250+million vehicles on our roads, wonder how many are carbed, a couple million, a few million tops. So I'm sure that there are indeed more issues with EFI as there are exponentially more of them on the roads.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Wimpazz » December 14th 2016, 10:07pm

My '71 Skylark is/ was a beast, even with 350k miles onthe original motor. I went from 2bbl to 4 because the primaries were smaller so should get better ecco. It started first time, every time with either carb on it... until that one time when it was about 10F outside. I about killed the battery trying to keep it running long enough to warn up and actually run... WOW.

Had a EFI rental car in Iowa one February when it was about -20F out... started first time, every time.

Which am I gonna choose? Well, here in sunny SoCal I'll take my beautiful Buick EVERY TIME. If I had to get kids to school in freezing temperatures often, then some form of EFI probably. Right tool for the job my friends.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! [OP] » December 14th 2016, 10:33pm

I lived during the carb era. It was simple just don't let the gas dry in the bowl. If it was going to sit spray something in the bowl to lube it. If you did they lasted forever.

Most carb issues in the day were gas issues that would knock out a injector quicker than they did a carb. Wax and paraffin in bad gas. Gum building up. Gas is better as far as that goes these days.

EFI issues your right Will should be shown against per capita of cars. Issues per 10000 cars.

That being said if the carb did go bad it only cost what a O2 sensor does. I was buying high performance carbs new for 100 bucks in the 90's when O2 sensors were 150 bucks. Sensors are getting cheaper for most things. Some still cost 180 bucks a pop. Buyer beware if you get the wrong car. 4 sensors X whatever.

I bought a 60 impala once for the engine. Sat in a creek for 35 years. Didn't charge the battery and it was dead as a door nail. Didn't add gas. Just pulled it with a tractor and started it. Drove it home 40 miles and pulled the motor.

Cost of upkeep is always part of the equation. If your going to be fair. Not just talk about the good and ignore what isn't in your benefit.

Divide maintaining a computer system. Divide it by cost of the extra gas. And spread that over the extra 1-3 MPG better it gets.

If it is lucky and is working right. I am seeing a awful lot of threads where the poor people have put a bajillion dollars into their vans only to get crap gas mileage. Ask engineer boy he don't got a clue what is wrong either or he would be the first with the answers.

Parts in the computer wear over time and their electrical resistance changes. They do just flat wear out. I posted a thread on that with all the scientific study and baloney with it. What part wore out and how it affected the system. Boils down to it can't read the sensors right anymore. And they don't make new ones. So your up a creek.

People making these do it to make money. Not to have a serviceable user friendly part. It is a bic lighter deal. It wears out your supposed to abandon it and get a new car. They just helping you make the call. Service cost more than a new car payment. Or it can just no longer be serviced.

I never got 10-13 MPG in my carbed full sized 6 cylinder van. I got 22 same as my van now gets after much screwing with it. 200 thousand miles nobody ever did anything but changed oil and put gas in it.

Both have their points.

All I know is my van was 29 grand new. To buy a equivalent new vehicle it would cost what my house does practically. It is a dog eat dog world. Cost of maintaining what I got is much easier on me than a new car. The van will be around much longer than a gen 1 computer can be even found. In the eventual failing of that part, it isn't a good thing if you need it. Got to go with what works for you.

I still got EFI but i also got carb parts waiting.

But no one can make a informed decision what they want to do. If they don't know all the facts.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 12:12am

chevymaher wrote:Cost of upkeep is always part of the equation. If your going to be fair. Not just talk about the good and ignore what isn't in your benefit.
I haven't found the cost of upkeep for the sensors/PCMs to be a large portion of the TCO, so yes, it is a factor, of course, but it has always been such a small percentage of the whole that it just simply isn't a big deal.
chevymaher wrote:Divide maintaining a computer system. Divide it by cost of the extra gas. And spread that over the extra 1-3 MPG better it gets.

However, it's not simply about the MPGs and we all know it, there is a whole lot more to it. Those longer oil change intervals haven't appeared out of thin air either, yes EFI is only a portion of that, but it does all add up. Emissions is important as well, even though most don't care because the situation has been improving as the cars have gotten cleaner. We could all be living in SMOG heaven that was LA in the early 80s ;)

chevymaher wrote:People making these do it to make money. Not to have a serviceable user friendly part. It is a bic lighter deal. It wears out your supposed to abandon it and get a new car. They just helping you make the call. Service cost more than a new car payment. Or it can just no longer be serviced.

That is how it's always been, and will continue to be. But just because the insurance or service center says that it's going to cost $2,800 to put in a new PCM, doesn't mean that you can't go to the JY and get one yourself for $25-$100 and be on your way. It has always been about the maximum profit.
chevymaher wrote:All I know is my van was 29 grand new. To buy a equivalent new vehicle it would cost what my house does practically. It is a dog eat dog world. Cost of maintaining what I got is much easier on me than a new car.

What cost $29000 in 1994 would cost $46770.57 in 2015 if adjusted for inflation. Seeing that the new Mercedes Metris is starting at 29,995 for the passenger version, so prices are actually cheaper if you take that into account, and still have $16,000 left over for gas :) 20/23 MPG, of course we can't compare those to the old ratings because they have changed, but still.
chevymaher wrote:The van will be around much longer than a gen 1 computer can be even found. In the eventual failing of that part, it isn't a good thing if you need it. Got to go with what works for you.

I think the computers will be around for a long time, and even if the OEM, or used wasn't available, you can still go aftermarket, or a newer OEM system.
chevymaher wrote:But no one can make a informed decision what they want to do. If they don't know all the facts.

Agreed 100%, it's all about the information.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Lumpy » December 15th 2016, 2:00am

AstroWill wrote:
What cost $29000 in 1994 would cost $46770.57 in 2015 if adjusted for inflation...



The basis of my hoarding disorder. I'm positive those old Pinto lug nuts are now worth thousands.


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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! [OP] » December 15th 2016, 4:07am

AstroWill wrote:
chevymaher wrote:The van will be around much longer than a gen 1 computer can be even found. In the eventual failing of that part, it isn't a good thing if you need it. Got to go with what works for you.

I think the computers will be around for a long time, and even if the OEM, or used wasn't available, you can still go aftermarket, or a newer OEM system.

Newer OEM system? Can you say when pigs fly.

It isn't all roses like your painting them to be if you deal with them on a daily basis. And I do.

I am glad mine is hanging in there so far. It only got to make it till the trans wears out. Then I don't care if it smokes and makes that little electric frying sound.

I wont miss it one bit.

But I really do want a holley stand alone fuel injection. If the prices come down like you say they will. To say less than twice what my van is worth be nice. But until then I just pay reasonable prices for the same thing in a carb.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 4:34am

chevymaher wrote:Newer OEM system? Can you say when pigs fly.

Of course we all know that wouldn't be a popular option with some ;)

chevymaher wrote:It isn't all roses like your painting them to be if you deal with them on a daily basis. And I do.

And it isn't all doom and gloom like some make them out to be either.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 4:41am

chevymaher wrote:But I really do want a holley stand alone fuel injection. If the prices come down like you say they will. To say less than twice what my van is worth be nice.

Just depends on what your van is worth.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby markmitch » December 15th 2016, 4:42am

hey Astrowill I did a study of where the LA smog thing came from and from my study most of the smog in LA actually came and still comes from Mexico, texas and New Mexico because they had/have oil refineries, paper mills and chrome mills. And not from automobiles. I also found that the government in California decided it was a great way to make more money off the people of this state, (I live in California too)
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! [OP] » December 15th 2016, 4:44am

They are getting better. I could deal with that for the chev, last time I looked they were 3 grand.

Talking me into this part of it anyway.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 4:54am

chevymaher wrote:Talking me into this part of it anyway.

a little cheaper.png

Just a little at a time.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! [OP] » December 15th 2016, 5:02am

Yea they are. I could spring for that on the van and use the elderbrock intake I got with the HEI. And live with myself.

I like the last one alot. Vans factory computer is still crap and going in the **** tho.

Maybe I should revise my statement now, I hate factory computers in cars. That one I could deal with.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 5:18am

markmitch wrote:hey Astrowill I did a study of where the LA smog thing came from and from my study most of the smog in LA actually came and still comes from Mexico, texas and New Mexico because they had/have oil refineries, paper mills and chrome mills. And not from automobiles. I also found that the government in California decided it was a great way to make more money off the people of this state, (I live in California too)

Show me that from any credible source. Hell even the prevailing winds alone would cause me to question that entirely.

Robert Wyman of the Regulatory Flexibility Group(in LA) wrote:"We've spent 50 years paying attention to manufacturing plants and to new cars and engines." he said. "The old cars are probably the worst contributors to the smog today. Something like less than 20 percent of the motor vehicles cause 80 percent of the emissions from that sector."
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby AstroWill » December 15th 2016, 5:36am

chevymaher wrote:Yea they are. I could spring for that on the van and use the elderbrock intake I got with the HEI. And live with myself.

I like the last one alot.


I have started collecting some parts for a turbo build, which is what had me looking at the fitech power adder series, boost capable out of the box. 4 wires and a whopping 2 sensors to install. $100 rebate through the end of the year, has me thinking hard about my future plans on the fueling side.
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Re: V-8 'Stro... split threadjack

Postby Lumpy » December 15th 2016, 4:31pm

Putin hacked California's air quality.


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AstroWill
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Date: Feb 11 '17
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