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The Swith to Full Synthetic Oil @ 97,000 miles

9K views 70 replies 18 participants last post by  Lumpy 
#1 ·
Looking to put a better oil on the 2001. Amsoil, Royal Turdple, or Mobil 1 (probably Mobil 1 due to value).
In addition I plan to put synthetic in the transmission and rear end.

Has anybody in the forum done it and seen positive/negative results? Just want to stay away from any potential pitfalls.
So far everything I've read seems to indicate I would be fine going to synthetic.

If so what weight do you use? 5W30?
Has anybody experienced the 0W30 offerings available by various oil companies?
Apparently all it offers is better cold cranking performance, a benefit which I would think is worthwhile, specially in the winter.

Thank you.
 
#2 ·
I use 15-40 full synthetic.Having oil pressure at idle is a good thing I hear.I switched at 180 thou or so.I was running 15-40 reg oil before then.Full synthetic resist oil breakdown from heat.My oil pressure does not drop at hot idle toward the next oil change.Same as the day I put it in.I am one satisfied customer of full synthetic.
 
#3 ·
I thought that I read somewhere that a few people switched to synthetic and had problems with it leaking out the seals?? I could be wrong. I read a so much stuff on here. I know that 5w-30 is recommended for our vehicles.
 
#4 ·
93xtmoney said:
I thought that I read somewhere that a few people switched to synthetic and had problems with it leaking out the seals?? I could be wrong. I read a so much stuff on here. I know that 5w-30 is recommended for our vehicles.
Yea it leaked but it was leaking anyway.I replaced top gaskets.Rear main seal leaked forever it actually stopped leaking after I took off oil pan and put it back on.It dont leak a drop of oil now.I think 100 thousand mile or better engines just leak.Part of life and maintenance of a vehicle.
 
#5 ·
There is no problem in switching to synthetics however at 97,000 the damage is done. petroleum oils do not offer the level of anti wear that a synthetic product does so in the case of a high mileage engine the wear has already taken place and there is no way to get it back except to rebuild.

With that being said here are some things to remember
Paraffin is used to get viscosity in petroleum, synthetics don't use paraffin and clean extremely well so expect to see seepage in gaskets.
If your using some oil now why spend the extra cost to switch?
What are your goals for switching to synthetics, extended drain, more MPG's

There are several classes of synthetics, class III and Class IV being the most popular. Class IV are true synthetics and are north of 8 bucks in price. Class IV offer better anti corrosion, anti wear and a better TBN (Total base Number) then the counter parts, hey you get what you pay for.....

With all that said, I run synthetics front to rear in every thing I own. My van has 145,000 + on it and uses about a quart of oil every 1000 miles in normal driving and about a quart every 600 miles in heavy load (2000 lbs) driving. I purchased my van with 134,00 a couple of months ago knowing it was well worn..... It is my work van.

You asked about viscosity, the lower (0w20, 30) viscosity are for fuel economy for the OEM's to meet CAFE so they can get big bucks from the Government. Depending on you ambient temp of your area should dictate your viscosity. As an example I live in Texas, its 110 almost every day so I need an oil that is thicker then the guy living in Minnesota. How much thicker? Think of it like this, predominantly 5w30 is the GM viscosity for an over all application to the whole USA so the southern states could use 10w30 or 10w40. The "W" is for winter weight and since the winters here seldom get below 35 degrees the 10 weight works just fine. Now if you in the northern states you will need a 5 weight or 0, this will make starting the vehicle much easier. Of course there are other variables in this equation but then I would have anything to talk about later.. :rofl:

This is probably more then you wanted to know and I'm sure it will spark a bunch of comments..
 
#6 ·
At Smyths auto full synthetic actually 5 bucks cheaper a gallon than the 5-30 it calls for.It called Wolfs head truck oil.$9.89 a gallon.Cost me 15 bucks to change my oil even with a more expensive WIX filters.I got an extra gallon I keep laying around to make up the extra quart.For my lawnmowers and such.
 
#7 ·
chevymaher said:
At Smyths auto full synthetic actually 5 bucks cheaper a gallon than the 5-30 it calls for.It called Wolfs head truck oil.$9.89 a gallon.Cost me 15 bucks to change my oil even with a more expensive WIX filters.I got an extra gallon I keep laying around to make up the extra quart.For my lawnmowers and such.
I know what your saying, but this is the facts. Years ago Castol was sued for the use of the word synthetic on their packaging, Castrol argument was that they changed the petroleum molecule to the point where it was what the considered a synthetic. They won the suit and class III synthetics were born.

Class III synthetics are a petroleum oil that is ultra refined that why the are so much cheaper. Class IV synthetics are designed in a lab and blended to meet a specification for an application, depending on the manufacture the base stock can be several different chemicals, as an example Mobil uses an ester base.
 
#8 ·
I should also say that the best petroleum product in the world is far inferior compared the the worst synthetic product, that just how much superior synthetics are in comparison.
 
#9 ·
I used to use dino juice every 3 months, which is probably 1000-2000
miles for me. I don't drive very far.

Switched to RoyalPurp every 6 months.

I literally can "feel" the difference in how it drives, engine idles etc.
At least I think I can.

Checking the dip stick, it's always cleaner with the RP than with the Dino juice
even after running twice as long.

1 oil change costs roughly $50 for 5 qts and a new 1036 from NAPA.
The old way it was maybe $25 but I did it twice as often. So it's
really not more expensive for synthetic.

I use 5w-30.

And don't forget to grease your zerks each time.

Lump
 
#10 ·
scott936 said:
chevymaher said:
At Smyths auto full synthetic actually 5 bucks cheaper a gallon than the 5-30 it calls for.It called Wolfs head truck oil.$9.89 a gallon.Cost me 15 bucks to change my oil even with a more expensive WIX filters.I got an extra gallon I keep laying around to make up the extra quart.For my lawnmowers and such.
I know what your saying, but this is the facts. Years ago Castol was sued for the use of the word synthetic on their packaging, Castrol argument was that they changed the petroleum molecule to the point where it was what the considered a synthetic. They won the suit and class III synthetics were born.

Class III synthetics are a petroleum oil that is ultra refined that why the are so much cheaper. Class IV synthetics are designed in a lab and blended to meet a specification for an application, depending on the manufacture the base stock can be several different chemicals, as an example Mobil uses an ester base.
I will read my jug see what it is.Whatever it is it good stuff.I will be checking into it.With 225 thou I dont smoke miss or use oil.I not saying it the best just that I happy with it.Comes out the same color holding same oil pressure as it went in.I am a stickler for changing oil on time I probably just washing the dirt out.But good heads up on the definition of what true synthetics are.
 
#11 ·
scott936 said:
What are your goals for switching to synthetics, extended drain, more MPG's
Would like to start doing my oil changes myself and looking to doing them 2-4 times per year max. Engine life is my number 1 priority though. Eventhough most of the wear has already taken place the engine is running well, no oil loss, etc. I trust that improving the oil quality will help extend the life of the engine. (not expecting the oil to do this single handed though).

scott936 said:
This is probably more then you wanted to know and I'm sure it will spark a bunch of comments..
No appreciate the whole post. I am liking the 0W-30 idea, and yes, I don't mind spending a little more to see overall, short and long term improvements.
Thanks man!
 
#14 ·
paintdrying said:
I was told to put gaskets in the rear end cover because synthetic will eat the rtv.
in yester year that was very true, but RTV and synthetics have changed in chemical composition. I used RTV on both 2002 Astro & 2009 pick up rear ends.
 
#15 ·
Bis said:
scott936 said:
What are your goals for switching to synthetics, extended drain, more MPG's
Would like to start doing my oil changes myself and looking to doing them 2-4 times per year max. Engine life is my number 1 priority though. Eventhough most of the wear has already taken place the engine is running well, no oil loss, etc. I trust that improving the oil quality will help extend the life of the engine. (not expecting the oil to do this single handed though).

scott936 said:
This is probably more then you wanted to know and I'm sure it will spark a bunch of comments..
No appreciate the whole post. I am liking the 0W-30 idea, and yes, I don't mind spending a little more to see overall, short and long term improvements.
Thanks man!
0w30 is a very good fit for Delware, look at the pour point of the product it should be around -52..... If its thats cold stay home...IMHO lol
 
#16 ·
scott936 said:
Bis said:
scott936 said:
What are your goals for switching to synthetics, extended drain, more MPG's
Would like to start doing my oil changes myself and looking to doing them 2-4 times per year max. Engine life is my number 1 priority though. Eventhough most of the wear has already taken place the engine is running well, no oil loss, etc. I trust that improving the oil quality will help extend the life of the engine. (not expecting the oil to do this single handed though).

scott936 said:
This is probably more then you wanted to know and I'm sure it will spark a bunch of comments..
No appreciate the whole post. I am liking the 0W-30 idea, and yes, I don't mind spending a little more to see overall, short and long term improvements.
Thanks man!
0w30 is a very good fit for Delware, look at the pour point of the product it should be around -52..... If its thats cold stay home...IMHO lol
Definitely going to try it. Gonna do my first oil change for the first time (after this damn heat wave is over). What a newb... :rofl:
LOL
 
#18 ·
Bis said:
Definitely going to try it. Gonna do my first oil change for the first time (after this damn heat wave is over). What a newb... :rofl:
LOL
Oil change was the first kind of service I ever did on any kind of car.
56 VW Buss.

Consider -

- Run the engine for a few minutes before the oil change to warm it up.
Not TOO much or it'll be too hot to touch. Be careful when unscrewing the
drain plug and filter. You'll get oil on your hands. Really hot oil, while your
hands are upside down and reaching up into a tight space, is a weird feeling.

- Wear gloves

- Replace the oil drain plug with the kind that has a magnet.
They're only a couple dollars at LocAutParts-R-Us. It'll grab any small, floating
bits of metal. That can only be a good thing, to keep metal bits out of the engine.

- Always use a new gasket/washer on that oil drain plug. Package of several
costs a dollar at the same place as above

- Before screwing in the new oil filter, FILL the filter with new oil.
That keeps the engine from temporarily oil starving. While you're
filling the inverted filter, rub a bit of that new oil on the rubber
gasket on the filter to help it seal.

- Invest in a good drip pan and a drain bucket thingie. They're cheap.
You'll spill some. Buy some driveway absorb stuff while you're getting
the oil, filter, magnetic drain plug and new washers. Buy some hand
cleaner while you're there. I like the orange stuff with pumice.

- GREASE YOUR ZERKS. As long as you're under there and saving money...
You can get a grease gun and cartridges of grease for about $30. That
will allow you to do a couple of years worth of lube jobs before having to
buy a new grease cartridge for another 5-10 bucks. Being under there,
attaching the hose thingie to the grease fittings, gives you a chance to
see the condition of all your steering joints.

- When you're all done. Wash your van and drive it around town.
You will notice a difference in smoothness of the ride. Grown men will
point. Chicks will blush. Children will go "WOAH LOOK". All because
you are lubricated.

- When you get back home, check for oil leaks.

Lumpy

Did you do a lot of those Emergency Broadcast Warnings?
Yes. Had it been an actual emergency I would have hid.

www.LumpyMusic.com
 
#19 ·
Hey man thanks, that last comment was pretty hilarious!
I am currently able to check pretty much all of your suggestions, went to Walmart and got everything I needed, except for the washers and magnetic nut (what a great idea!).
Gonna throw a Royal Purple filter and doing Mobil 1 (0W-30). Hopefully I'll be able to go 6 months with that combo.

The thing about the grease: is that what a shop would consider "chassis lubrication"?
I definitely want to get into greasing the suspension. I just don't know what other things there are to lubricate in the chassis. I guess its time to whip out the manual...

Also, you are supposed to jack the car up on a level surface, but when you jack it you are tilting the oil in the engine block. Does the oil still come out fully when jacking the car from the manufacturer designated jacking-points under the driver/passenger seat locations?

Any tips you have for jacking up the car for this job would be appreciated. I have been tempted to jacking it up by that heavy brace that runs under the engine but I'm reluctant since I don't know if its able to take the pressure.

PS: is the oil drain plug a size 19mm on these vans?

Thanks a lot!

Lumpy said:
Bis said:
Definitely going to try it. Gonna do my first oil change for the first time (after this damn heat wave is over). What a newb... :rofl:
LOL
Oil change was the first kind of service I ever did on any kind of car.
56 VW Buss.

Consider -

- Run the engine for a few minutes before the oil change to warm it up.
Not TOO much or it'll be too hot to touch. Be careful when unscrewing the
drain plug and filter. You'll get oil on your hands. Really hot oil, while your
hands are upside down and reaching up into a tight space, is a weird feeling.

- Wear gloves

- Replace the oil drain plug with the kind that has a magnet.
They're only a couple dollars at LocAutParts-R-Us. It'll grab any small, floating
bits of metal. That can only be a good thing, to keep metal bits out of the engine.

- Always use a new gasket/washer on that oil drain plug. Package of several
costs a dollar at the same place as above

- Before screwing in the new oil filter, FILL the filter with new oil.
That keeps the engine from temporarily oil starving. While you're
filling the inverted filter, rub a bit of that new oil on the rubber
gasket on the filter to help it seal.

- Invest in a good drip pan and a drain bucket thingie. They're cheap.
You'll spill some. Buy some driveway absorb stuff while you're getting
the oil, filter, magnetic drain plug and new washers. Buy some hand
cleaner while you're there. I like the orange stuff with pumice.

- GREASE YOUR ZERKS. As long as you're under there and saving money...
You can get a grease gun and cartridges of grease for about $30. That
will allow you to do a couple of years worth of lube jobs before having to
buy a new grease cartridge for another 5-10 bucks. Being under there,
attaching the hose thingie to the grease fittings, gives you a chance to
see the condition of all your steering joints.

- When you're all done. Wash your van and drive it around town.
You will notice a difference in smoothness of the ride. Grown men will
point. Chicks will blush. Children will go "WOAH LOOK". All because
you are lubricated.

- When you get back home, check for oil leaks.

Lumpy

Did you do a lot of those Emergency Broadcast Warnings?
Yes. Had it been an actual emergency I would have hid.

http://www.LumpyMusic.com
 
#20 ·
Consider those plastic ramps. They are @40 bucks at wal mart. I jack up the van enough to get under it. You could jack it up so gravity points to the drain. I always use heavy duty jackstands, then I set the e brake and block all the tires. The van will move slightly when jacking with a floor jack. You want to avoid the jack tipping over. Keep everything at 90 degress. Stay away from scissor jacks. One of the things I learn from my dad is to put something under the van so if it were to fall it would not crush you. I use varies pieces of fire wood. The big heavy chunks. Stay away from cinder blocks. Also, your oil pan is aluminum so be careful over tightening the plug. If it drips you can always make it tighter. They make these metal washers, impregnated with rubber and seem to work really well. Be safe.

If you have ever fallen through ice you will quickly realize the scenes in movies where the ice slowly cracks is hogwash. One second your happily walking on top of a frozen lake, the next second your under water fighting for your life. Well, a car falling is the same way. Almost like it just falls from the sky.
 
#21 ·
You almost can get to the drain plug without jacking it up at all, but the filter is slightly more difficult to handle that way. I'm with ^, get a pair of those plastic ramps (they're lower than the metal ones - I have both) and run the van up onto those. Get a pair of chocks if the factory ones aren't in the jack box and chock the front and back of a rear wheel.

The ramps/chocks are a lot safer than a jack, even with chocks - and you never, ever just rely on a jack: you MUST have jackstands. Jacks tip. Even if you're using two jacks and have the tire/wheel under as a blocker. I have a permanent mark from that (11 years ago and the 'mark' is as strong as new)....and had to wait half an hour for someone to realize I wasn't just a kid playing to come out and rescue me. This was doing the front brakes on the '81 Celebrity I inherited from my grandmother. On some other forums, 2 guys have been killed in the last month because they were under vehicles comparable to the Astro while only using a jack. Just don't do it. If you insist on using a jack, the jacking points are in your owner's manual. If you don't have one, there's one available for download on the index page, lower down. Just right-click on your year and save to your computer (it's a PDF). Do not jack anywhere but those points.

Factory fill is 4.5 qts. I usually put the 4 qts in, then pull it down off the ramps. Turn it off, give it a minute for the oil to drain back to the pan, then check and fill to the mark. Don't overfill. I've found that the washers that have a metal outside and rubber inside piece are the best - and I've tried them all. I get them at my local chain autoparts place - they have them carded with replacement drain plugs under the Oil-Tite name (black and yellow cards).

Yes, greasing all the zerks is chassis lubrication. Bring a shop towel with you; you'll have to clean off the zerks before you can put a pump or two in each boot. You only need to put in enough grease so that the boot fills out - more will cause the grease to come out around the edges.

To be honest, despite the fact that I changed the oil 2 weeks ago, I can't remember what size the socket required is, but I don't think it was 19mm. It was more like 15mm or 13mm, but I can't remember.
 
#22 ·
15 mm. I need to go change mine this afternoon. As far as Lubing the suspension, it helps to have the whole front up on jack stands, it makes it easier to turn the wheels to get to some of the zerks. Read the grease tubes, and make sure you're getting the right type. ( I like full synthetic grease )
PS, it's probably time to repack the wheel bearings too! :mrgreen:
 
#23 ·
Bolt head size on the oil drain plug varies. Some of the aftermarket
plugs with magnets are larger/smaller than OEM. There are also
OVERSIZE drain plugs for use when your stock threads are stripped.
Some of them have the stock sized bolt heads, some have larger heads.

I believe the 4.5 qt capacity is WITHOUT the filter. So it ends up being a full
five qts once the filter is full. Five brings it right up to full on my dip stick.

I guess I forgot to list an OIL FILTER WRENCH. There's several kind. One way
or another, you'll need one to get the old filter off. Don't use it to put the new
filter on, just hand tight for that.

USED OIL -
I dump mine into a 5 gal drywall bucket.
Then once a year take that to the Loc Auto Parts store.
They dispose of it appropriately and legally, no charge.
Same with tranny fluid, PS fluid or any other car juice.
The tricky part is getting the 5 gal bucket to the LAP store
without spilling. We use our F**d truck for that.. :rofl:

Lump
 
#24 ·
paintdrying said:
Consider those plastic ramps. They are @40 bucks at wal mart. I jack up the van enough to get under it. You could jack it up so gravity points to the drain. I always use heavy duty jackstands, then I set the e brake and block all the tires. The van will move slightly when jacking with a floor jack. You want to avoid the jack tipping over. Keep everything at 90 degress. Stay away from scissor jacks. One of the things I learn from my dad is to put something under the van so if it were to fall it would not crush you. I use varies pieces of fire wood. The big heavy chunks. Stay away from cinder blocks. Also, your oil pan is aluminum so be careful over tightening the plug. If it drips you can always make it tighter. They make these metal washers, impregnated with rubber and seem to work really well. Be safe.

If you have ever fallen through ice you will quickly realize the scenes in movies where the ice slowly cracks is hogwash. One second your happily walking on top of a frozen lake, the next second your under water fighting for your life. Well, a car falling is the same way. Almost like it just falls from the sky.
Damn man, you did not have to make it so vivid. lol
I am kinda scared now. hahahaha
 
#25 ·
Leeann_93 said:
You almost can get to the drain plug without jacking it up at all, but the filter is slightly more difficult to handle that way. I'm with ^, get a pair of those plastic ramps (they're lower than the metal ones - I have both) and run the van up onto those. Get a pair of chocks if the factory ones aren't in the jack box and chock the front and back of a rear wheel.

The ramps/chocks are a lot safer than a jack, even with chocks - and you never, ever just rely on a jack: you MUST have jackstands. Jacks tip. Even if you're using two jacks and have the tire/wheel under as a blocker. I have a permanent mark from that (11 years ago and the 'mark' is as strong as new)....and had to wait half an hour for someone to realize I wasn't just a kid playing to come out and rescue me. This was doing the front brakes on the '81 Celebrity I inherited from my grandmother. On some other forums, 2 guys have been killed in the last month because they were under vehicles comparable to the Astro while only using a jack. Just don't do it. If you insist on using a jack, the jacking points are in your owner's manual. If you don't have one, there's one available for download on the index page, lower down. Just right-click on your year and save to your computer (it's a PDF). Do not jack anywhere but those points.

Factory fill is 4.5 qts. I usually put the 4 qts in, then pull it down off the ramps. Turn it off, give it a minute for the oil to drain back to the pan, then check and fill to the mark. Don't overfill. I've found that the washers that have a metal outside and rubber inside piece are the best - and I've tried them all. I get them at my local chain autoparts place - they have them carded with replacement drain plugs under the Oil-Tite name (black and yellow cards).

Yes, greasing all the zerks is chassis lubrication. Bring a shop towel with you; you'll have to clean off the zerks before you can put a pump or two in each boot. You only need to put in enough grease so that the boot fills out - more will cause the grease to come out around the edges.

To be honest, despite the fact that I changed the oil 2 weeks ago, I can't remember what size the socket required is, but I don't think it was 19mm. It was more like 15mm or 13mm, but I can't remember.
Yeah, safety is definitely a concern. And I appreciate all the advice since I don't usually do my own work and just bought my first jack and set of jack stands. My jack stands look wobbly as hell! Almost like toys! Things were expensive too!

About the ramps: Do I have to use 4 of these ramps? so that the vehicle remains level to the ground? Or just 2 in the front ok? I figured with 2 in the front the oil would recede to the back of the pan, but then again the plug might be in the back so it might actually help? I have to look at the pan. :(

Thanks Leeann for the tips. It's still hot as monkey *** up here, so I gotta wait a little bit to do the oil change.
 
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