Engine oil pressure at idle

Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby xit [OP] » August 27th 2011, 6:20pm

I lack about 1000 miles till my next oil change, what should my oil pressure be at idle and driving, looks like the previous owner changed every 3000 miles. I don't know what oil he used but it is marked 5w30 on the little reminder sticker, what would you recommend, synthetic or not? This is Oklahoma where it has been over 100 degrees for over 50 days this summer & the winters can be very cold for long periods. :?:

Thanks
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby WoodMotorsports » August 27th 2011, 6:51pm

170k miles and my oil pressure is 40 at idle and close to 60 when driving with 10w40 dino oil. I generally run synthetic in everything, but plan to have a V8 soon so I didn't spend the money on the last change.
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby RECox286 » August 27th 2011, 8:25pm

There is a lot of controversy when discussing oil, and the only thing you can count on, when you ask 100 people, is that you will get 100 different answers. I can tell you what I have done, and the results, others will
do the same. So, in the end, it will be up to you to decide what you will do. That said:

Ever since I have been doing my own oil changes, I have used Valvoline 10w40 dino oil for each and every car and truck I have owned. Oil and filter changed at 5k mi intervals. Started with a 1969 Maverick, fresh
off the lot and sold it 18 years later with 225k mi. Had to do several valve jobs, but never had to open the bottom end. All other cars and trucks, since then, have had the same treatment, except all were from
the GM Stable. All have had similar motor histories, for example: my current DD is a 93 Astro, bought used with 25k mi, now shows 311k mi. Never had the engine apart for any interior problem. Smokes a bit on
start up in the morning, and uses maybe 1.5 to 2 qts between changes. Have had to change accessories, but nothing inside the motor. Just oil changes and tune ups...

I drive everything like a granny would, and am religious about maintenance. My concoction: Fresh oil filter, 1/2 qt Rislone, top off with 10w40 Valvolene, and 10w40 Valvolene as needed until next due oil change.

No magic to it. Oil and filters are cheaper than motors. Go to the store and pick a brand and spec (weight) and then don't put anything else in the motor. Stick to one part number, and you will be sure that you are not mixing additives. If you desire a detergent, pick one and stick with only that one. You will more than likely have the same results that I have had. If you want to go synthetic, than do so, but it will cost you more, and you will probably extend oil change intervals. The reason I stuck with dino oil is that it was recommended by the mfg, is cheaper and allows me to drain the black sludge (products of combustion, water,
acids, etc) at that shorter interval. Pay yer nickle, take yer choice.

Good luck, and keep on truck'n

Bob

BTW: I would be estatic with 10psi minimum at idle and 40psi at cruise. as long as it is fairly steady. Don't rely on the gage to be all that accurate. Plug in an analog gage at the pressure port.
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Phantom » August 27th 2011, 10:33pm

Your van looks to be like new , and you said that you have been trying to buy this same van for years and that it has been taken very good care of with oil changes every 3000 miles
Car makers consider any engine with more than 70,000 miles to be a high mileage engine .
It will depend on what side of the fence a given person is on as to what advice they will give , If a person has only used dino oil and has success , that is what will be recommended and why wouldn't they since they have had success with it, why not recommend what ever you have success with ? There is a level of politics that come into this because you are now dealing with an issue that is involving companies that want your repeat business , Most are at 40 psi at idle , now when engine is hot in gear foot on brake at stoplight it should be at least about 20 psi ,,,on vehicles with no pressure gauge and just a warning light , that light will not come on until you reach 7 psi , so if I only has 10 psi at idle i would be worried enough to see if the pump needs replaced or if bearings are really well worn , once you get a knock it only gets worse

Many new cars come off the factory production line with synthetic oil because it has been shown to be a superior grade of oil with superior cleaning ability , A new engine that has always been serviced with the same has been shown that at 200,000 miles there was no visible wear even under a microscope , something that dino oil cannot do , But even though with synthetic oil some car makers may still have the same oil change intervals . Now here is where some politics can come in . Car makers have working relationship with oil companies that they want to keep in good standing , and they also want to cover their own hind end . If they increase the recommend interval times and for some unknown reason the wrong oil gets packaged in the wrong container , it wont be known and the oil company will not be held responsible if any engine failure would occur it would be the car maker warranty . the car maker covers it backside by keeping the same oil change intervals regardless of what oil you use ,

Since there are too many variables to determine how sensibly an owner drivers their van , or if they keep the oil level correct or drive it a couple quarts low ,there is no way to guarantee anything , Some oil companies will recommend synth oil changes at 7000 miles and some may say 10-15000 miles and the average consumer will wonder why the difference? Since there is no law or regulation mandating intervals there is no way to keep all companies recommendations the same. When it comes to marketing it is all about money , they will say anything to get you to buy their product . Some people will only use dino oil simply because it costs less the thing is unless you have a regular routine of taking an engine apart and measuring the parts under a high power microscope you won't know what your oil is doing.
On a cold engine start up is where most wear happens because the oil is thicker when cold and it takes time to circulate and during the time that little oil is present on the moving parts wear takes place . Synthetic oil moves faster when cold than dino oil and gets where it needs to be quicker offering more protection , it keeps parts cleaner and can put a microthin layer of oil molecules on the bearings and other critical parts . Some dino oil use paraffin wax to lubricate and it can build up on seal areas . Sometimes on really high mileage engines , and especially engines that have not been taken well care of have a build up of gunk from dino oil and then using the synthetic oil and its cleansing power removes those gunk deposits and can sometimes result in a gasket leak .
To the owner who does not know what is happening they may freak out and blame the oil because that is when they see the problem. Though the problem is worn out gaskets that need replaced , the owner may not see it that way . In those cases all that needs is for the gaskets to be replaced and all is well and will remain well afterward , It seems logical that since you know the history of the van and that it has been taken good care of , you have a real good likelihood that you will not experience any leaks so using synthetic will be fine . If you have any doubts you can run your own mix of dino/synthetic oil as I do . I use 1 quart of full synthetic oil and top off with dino oil , I use Castrol High mileage oil .

One more thing I should mention GM TSB ,, Technical Service Bulletin .These TSB are bulletins that GM issue whenever a update is issued , whether it be to update a service procedure or part usage .. An example is like with transmission fluid , GM has issued a TSB to upgrade the transmission fluid in the 4L60E to use the Dexron 6 synthetic transmission fluid , but the general public do not get these TSB because they only send them to the GM dealers and assembly plants . So if you gp to various transmission repair shops they will tell you to use the dexron 3 fluid that came in the van when it ws new .. Dexron 6 has only been on the market for a few years so it was not available when your van was new . A sad thing is when shops don't care enough about their customers cars to make sure that they keep up on the new data and TSB to keep customers cars in the best of health ,,,and some shops keep it that way because they want repeat business to make money . Dexron 6 is a superior fluid over dexron 3 and will help the transmission to last longer , even though GM puts out a TSB to use Dex 6 , still many shops will say to use what your van used when it was made because they just don't take the time to read the GM TSB ,
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby xit [OP] » August 27th 2011, 11:09pm

I am getting some good information here, just keep it coming so I can make a smart decision when oil change time comes. I swear this van runs and rides like new & I want to keep it that way in as far as possible.

thanks again
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » August 28th 2011, 6:38am

Good info here. I don't use synthetic on high mileage vehicles because of the cleaning power of it and unknown previous maintenance and I don't wanna deal with seals possibly leaking that may or may not be plugged by gunk. I use 10w-40 (5w-30 in winter though) Castrol High Mileage in my 87 Astro. This is the first vehicle it's actually made a difference. It's been using/leaking less and less oil and so far, about 2,800 miles into the current oil change, the dipstick reads full still! I change it every 3,000.

I got my 2000 Safari with low mileage though and the guy I brought it from actually knew what vehicle maintenance was (he did fuel filter, transmission flush, etc, things average people don't seem to give a s*** about) and said he kept the oil changed. Running Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 in it with no problems. I think I'll change it every 6,000 miles. Probably could go longer easily but I don't like to leave ANY oil in an engine for too long. If the 87 Astro is still in good shape after 210,000 miles of dino, my 2000 should have a like new engine on the inside by the time it hits the 200k mark with Mobil 1 :dance:

As far as what the oil pressure should be, 20 psi hot idle seems about right if the engine's in good shape and 40-50 PSI cruising. My 87 Astro's oil pressure gauge is almost useless it seems as it barely moves even on hard acceleration so I throw 10w-40 to be on the safe side. I have a 94 Sonoma I should be selling some time this week that's ran 232,000 miles on 5w-30 dino and still reads 60 PSI cold start, 20 hot idle, 40-50 cruising. Same with my 2000 Safari. For dash gauges, they seem to operate fairly accurately. If your hot idle reads less than 15 PSI, you can always hook up a real gauge and see where it's really at and bump it to 10w-40 if needed. Otherwise, keep with 5w-30. Do realize though that if you have to bump up to a higher viscosity oil to keep oil pressure, there may be some kind of malfunction (most likely oil pump) or the bearings may have some permanent damage. If you need 20w-50 to keep oil pressure, you need engine repair.
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby rev_les » August 28th 2011, 6:51am

Figure out the problem before buying parts
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » August 28th 2011, 7:04am

rev_les wrote:http://texlube.com/oilmyths.htm


Never heard of the rusty dipstick one before!
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby FLSafari » August 28th 2011, 3:37pm

As a Brit living in the US, I'll throw in my 5 British pennies here.
First of all, in Europe the oil change intervals are way different. They ditched changing the oil at 3000 miles years ago and even now the 6000 mile interval is largely a thing of the past. Anywhere between 9,000 and 15,000 can be oil/filter change intervals and that is more often than not manufacturers recommendation/schedules. These are not just euro companies like VW, BMW, Mercedes, but US companies such as Ford and GM(Vauxhall & Opel)
Here in the US I've never done the 3000 mile oil change, simply stuck to a 6,000 oil filter change. I do follow the GM recommendation which is 5W-30 and I don't buy on brand name either. I am no expert, nor am I chemist. I simply take the view that the lower the number the better for cold temperatures and the higher the number the better for hotter temperatures. I live in Florida, we don't have real cold. So long as the oil meets the specs that will do fine for me. Filters are the same and I buy on price not fancy name. I've had that mentality for nearly 40 years and never had any issues on engine's going bad apart from the one time when back in the UK my car at the time(a 3 year old French Citroen XM 24 valve) I had just bought used with a FULL dealer service history went bad at only 60,000 miles. The Citroen main dealer told me a new engine was needed. Citroen UK provided a new engine at low cost, but I still got little change out of $3000.00 as my contribution. The dealer then recommended that the ONLY oil it should have from then on was Mobil 1 full synthetic and there would be no wear issues ever again. In the UK at that time, that oil cost me $209.00 per oil change plus labor!! At only 11,000 miles the big ends went and Citroen had to throw another new engine my way after the threat of a law suit by me. Once installed, I traded the car in.
Moral in this story. Buying the best oil whether synthetic or not is NO guarantee that your engine will not go bad, nor will an anal fixation with oil change intervals. Be aware of your driving habits and so long as the specs are met, then you should be OK.
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Phantom » August 28th 2011, 4:33pm

FLSafari wrote:
= In the UK at that time, that oil cost me $209.00 per oil change plus labor!!
.

WOW :o :shock: so they charged nearly $42.00 per quart for 5 quarts of oil ,,,plus labor?
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby RECox286 » August 28th 2011, 5:09pm

Hey Phantom,

When I was still in highschool, just starting to drive, I was allowed to use the "family car", an Olds 98 with an 8 banger. When my father passed away, my mother remarried, and my new stepdad was livid that I was allowed to keep and drive the car. It was registered to my mother, and insured by her also, hence the "problem" of monies spent and liabilities taken. One fine day the "family" showed up and physically took the car, never to be seen again. Then I got the news: there was rust on the dipstick. I found out that meant that I had put somethin like STP engine treatment in the oil hole, as per the expert stepdad, and the engine was ruined.

So, yes I have heard of "rust on the dipstick". What it actually means, I'll never know. (I have seen rust on very old dipsticks in the JY, and I know what that means.)

Bob

BTW: Price out an oil change for some alien cars such as BMW, at their dealerships. I couldn't afford the sales tax let alone the oil and filter...
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Phantom » August 28th 2011, 5:24pm

RECox286 wrote:Hey Phantom,

When I was still in highschool, just starting to drive, I was allowed to use the "family car", an Olds 98 with an 8 banger. When my father passed away, my mother remarried, and my new stepdad was livid that I was allowed to keep and drive the car. It was registered to my mother, and insured by her also, hence the "problem" of monies spent and liabilities taken. One fine day the "family" showed up and physically took the car, never to be seen again. Then I got the news: there was rust on the dipstick. I found out that meant that I had put somethin like STP engine treatment in the oil hole, as per the expert stepdad, and the engine was ruined.

So, yes I have heard of "rust on the dipstick". What it actually means, I'll never know. (I have seen rust on very old dipsticks in the JY, and I know what that means.)

Bob

BTW: Price out an oil change for some alien cars such as BMW, at their dealerships. I couldn't afford the sales tax let alone the oil and filter...


I think you must of mistakenly read who made the comment on the rust on the dipstick since It was not me ,,
I have seen rust on the dipstick ,, but it is not really rust like you'd think of sheet metal rust , it more like corrosion that can be cleaned off ,,,stp is something that we always teased people that used it , something like motor honey , very very thick molasses type stuff that would help gum leaking gaskets , I would never use that stuff , but yea there are corrosive ingredients in cheap products that can cause rust like corrosion ,,,, I was just amazed at $209 plus labor for an oil change , the oil is no different than here in the USA glad I live in the USA :D
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby RECox286 » August 28th 2011, 5:33pm

Oops, sorry, Phantom. My bad. It was "the Shadow" not "the Phantom"....

Bob (Ha !)
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » August 29th 2011, 2:18am

That is one incredibly pricey oil change! :shock: I do have a little bit of varnish on my 87's dipstick. It's scary that an additive would cause rust. I was already not a believer in them before I read that lol. Only oil goes in my engine, only transmission fluid goes in my transmission, and only coolant goes in my radiator. I had a leaky radiator once and I was amazed at how many people were telling me to throw that green leak stop crap in it, pepper, egg whites, etc and I'm like "wtf, I'm just gonna replace the under-$100 part and be done with it"
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby RECox286 » August 29th 2011, 2:38am

Hey Shadow,

Sometimes, mechanic in a can comes in handy, 'specially when yer in the boondocks, one Washington in yer wallet, and youse gotta get home...

We all have been there at least once in our lifetime, no ? Well, I have, and I've done a few crazy things in the field to get back home. Yankee engineering ?

The "rust" I mentioned had been there when my dad bought the car. It was from sitting too long with practically no oil in the engine. That was the excuse/reason

for plucking the car away from me, just because he didn't want to spend any of "his" new found money on his new wifes' son. (get it ?)

If I had that philosophy, I probably would be retired for many years now, but instead, I still work for a living with no end in sight. Perhaps there will be

a place in Heaven for me. I just hope that old Astros get to go to the same place. If not, then I'll settle for a trip to hell so I can be among all my friends.

Bob
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Re: Engine oil pressure at idle

Postby FLSafari » August 29th 2011, 3:59pm

Yep, $209.00 for an oil change. The pounds sterling cost was 128.00 GB pounds for 5 quarts of Mobil 1 full synthetic. That worked out at 25.60 GB pounds per quart or just over $42.00 per quart with the current exchange rate. Then you had labor on top!! That Citroen was just a huge money pit for me and when you are told by a main dealer to have nothing but full synthetic in and the brand new engine does 11,000 and throws it's big ends, it makes you kinda suspicious of everyone and everything.
So I buy on price and spec, not fancy names or packaging. It has served me well.
TBH I usually put Tech 5W 30 from Walmart in the van, though last change I stuck in some Quaker high mileage that was on special. Van hasn't complained yet.
I have the same philosophy on tires. I buy on price not name. A big nail lying in the road does NOT discriminate between cheapo and Michelins. Your wallet does!
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