Aftermarket Intake

Aftermarket Intake

Postby Ben_R [OP] » September 27th 2013, 6:49pm

I have just stumbled upon this picture of someones aftermarket air filter install.

Food for thought? :think:
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chevymaher wrote:You just apparently believe any ad a snake oil salesman post. Not actual Dynoed results.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Sailing_Faith » September 27th 2013, 7:13pm

I often wonder how much of the gain made from intake changes is psychological. The intake noise when you hit the skinny pedal "feels" faster.

I used to do port and polish on motorcycles, so I know very well that increased air flow increases performance.. I am just not sure how great the benefit is in a stock 4.3. If done with exhaust, and as part of a systematic approach I think it would have obvious benefits.

I any application, there are "choke points" I wonder if the intake / breather box on these vans qualify as one?
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Sailing_Faith » September 27th 2013, 7:14pm

It sure looks nice though. :)
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » September 27th 2013, 7:31pm

It wasn't just psychological on my stock 4.3.
Completely factory engine with just the timing advanced.
It definitely ran better than it did in stock tune.




Open air filter, better flowing exhaust, Blocked EGR, made more significant gains.

Then it blew a oil line from rubbing/wear. Spun a few rods and got ported with a cam. When it was re-built.
It is just a engine. It don't care how people talk about it. Do the improvements it responds like any other engine does.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby astroman97 » September 28th 2013, 2:33am

Where did you get it and how much was it?
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby OrangeAnimal » September 30th 2013, 2:38am

I think you would be better off using an F-Body elbow from the MAF to a open element air filter than that "T" shaped design. If someone really liked that design I would be more than happy to build one. It looks like two pieces of Exhaust tubing welded together with a couple tabs to secure it. Really if you want a smoother flow you need to get rid of the piece between the MAF and the throttle body to get real (small) gains. You need to also keep the distance between the MAF and the TB the same or very close to it. I have played with these before. Too much turbulence close to the butterfly causes the readings to go squirrely.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby cowboydan » September 30th 2013, 3:33am

Or you could just assume that it's no better than anything else you find under the hood... a warm air intake. Until you meet my air collection system. I easily make V8 power with it. My 4.3 is all stock internals with a new timing chain. I think this pic as a good thing to post of how Not to make an air collection system. Where is the cold air? My engine takes on only cold air and is sealed off from the rest of the engine bay. Anything less is a FAIL.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby cowboydan » September 30th 2013, 3:43am

chevymaher wrote:It wasn't just psychological on my stock 4.3.
Completely factory engine with just the timing advanced.
It definitely ran better than it did in stock tune.




Open air filter, better flowing exhaust, Blocked EGR, made more significant gains.

Then it blew a oil line from rubbing/wear. Spun a few rods and got ported with a cam. When it was re-built.
It is just a engine. It don't care how people talk about it. Do the improvements it responds like any other engine does.

I have watched your speedo many times.... I think I can take ya. Let me see what I can do without breaking too many laws...lol... Guess we'll see what happens. Let me reach in my back pocket for a can of woop A!@... as soon as I find it... I'll let you know... crap, My phone hates life. It won't charge on the computer anymore (so it also doesn't download), only the wall charger and that's even intermittent! I still owe money on this crappy phone eh.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby markmitch » September 30th 2013, 5:24am

I agree with the cooler denser air idea but as hood scoops go a rear facing scoop yields more then a forward scoop as has been proven over the years with various racing styles. And thats coming from a guy with a forward scoop.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Sailing_Faith » September 30th 2013, 5:47am

Incrsed air flow is a good thing.

Cooler air is a good thing.

My point, (and I think Chevymaher backs it up rathe then refutes it) is that these changes work when TAKEN TOGETHER. Just opening up the intake makes the motor sound different, but bu it's self is not going to make an appreciable difference.

The stock intake draws in cooler air, now it IS more restrictrictive.... It is also designed to baffle that sound that we all like so much.

One consideration I had overlooked OrangeAnimal brings out... Good to consider the effect of turbulence, especially on a MAF....

Certaily fun to tinker, but the biggest gains come as part of a well thought out approach to getting more fuel and air through the motor.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » September 30th 2013, 1:16pm

cowboydan wrote:I have watched your speedo many times.... I think I can take ya. Let me see what I can do without breaking too many laws...lol... Guess we'll see what happens. Let me reach in my back pocket for a can of woop A!@... as soon as I find it... I'll let you know... crap, My phone hates life. It won't charge on the computer anymore (so it also doesn't download), only the wall charger and that's even intermittent! I still owe money on this crappy phone eh.


Yea but your missing my point every time.

I am to happy if you can beat me. To me even with the cam and porting it is still one of the biggest slugs I ever drove. The world is changing.
Affordable rocket cars are gone.

I just fighting the myth that they are total mopeds in performance. With a little tuning they compete with all but the best the factory is offering these days. 60 grand and up factory tuners basically.

Most are not looking to set the land speed record or get the best quarter mile here. Just be able to pass and not have a problem with the person they trying to pass. Have enough power to make it fun to drive.

Which they are more than capable of doing for free if you are willing to spend the time screwing with tuning it. Just showing it has been done will encourage Some to try. Dis-spell the wives tales that it is useless to try. And permit the ones who want what I have to enjoy their van more. Instead of always being on the downer it isn't worth it trip. Which always confused me. The people who love these vans the most, also hate its motor. Which in my opinion is a damn good one both dependability and performance wise. With necessary tweaking.

I wish I was still driving 11-12 second chevelles and camaros for less than 500 bucks in the car. But those days are gone and I am just moving on to the next cheap ride and enjoying it to the fullest.

As sailing_faith was saying I was not disputing what he said. Just all the above reasons for posting. Just a 17 buck muffler a good air cleaner. Some tuning in the timing dept. And go have fun hurting the mustangs feeling. Which are way overated in my opinion. One out of 30 actually runs good. The rest are turds riding the coat tails of the name and one that does run good. They are not all 500 HP or Shelby mustangs. Most look good but are driven easy with terrible tuning. Owners don't even know to turn off the traction control. So they are slow easy marks for a well running vehicle.

So my message was always this. Enjoy what you got and don't worry about the Nay-Sayers. My van is well liked and talked about locally.
It easily gets as much attention as a mustang.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby OrangeAnimal » September 30th 2013, 3:35pm

The biggest problem is having the foresight to say ok what is going to happen from doing this. In this case you might gain some power but mostly as others have mentioned your gaining sound. That's the idea behind the stock air box. Eliminate that noise. Also I agree you need to draw in cool air. Otherwise your throwing money away. I like the idea of building a ram air box. Cut some appropriate openings in the hood and make it look clean. You just have to figure out how to keep the water out in heavy rain. If you can draw air from the leading edge of the hood that would be great though.


Funny you mention mustangs. I have owned 5 Fox body mustangs. Ok six if you include the 4 cylinder one. Oddly enough I miss the 4 banger one the most. I have had them in various states of engine despair. Most of them were over cammed that is the biggest mistake those guys make. You cannot shove the Ford Motorsports X cam in a stock engine. It won't run worth a crap. The best running one I had did have a x cam and all the parts to back it up. The only thing I would have done different is more compression. It needed about .5 more to successfully extract the power from a cam with huge duration and massive lift there is too much bleed off at idle the compression goes way way down nearing idle and makes the engine super peaky. Not altogether a bad thing if you have the guts to spin a stock crank up to 6800 rpm. You can easily gain another 40-50 hp just by following all the guidelines for installing such a large cam. The car I had in particular made 378whp and 390wtq. Not bad on the factory fuel injection with really no tuning at all.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » September 30th 2013, 4:43pm

My buddy has a Fox Bodied mustang convertible. Perfect paint. Cobra wheels and tires. Cobra emblems on the side. Good looking and handling car. It is a 4 cylinder.
I like mustangs myself. I own a chev and play the muscle car Doo-Doo talk game.
But I like all cars. If I owned a Chrysler I would be trash talking chev I am sure.

Back in the day nobody was confused. Own a Chevelle and it wasnt automatically considered to be a screamer. Had to prove it. Straight sixes with mags and black stripes do not a muscle car make.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Ben_R [OP] » September 30th 2013, 10:54pm

cowboydan wrote:I easily make V8 power with it. My 4.3 is all stock internals with a new timing chain.


So when are you going to put your van on a rolling road? Anyone can make claims but this really needs to be backed up with some real proof rather than just hear say and speculation.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby cowboydan » October 1st 2013, 12:01am

Ben_R wrote:
cowboydan wrote:I easily make V8 power with it. My 4.3 is all stock internals with a new timing chain.


So when are you going to put your van on a rolling road? Anyone can make claims but this really needs to be backed up with some real proof rather than just hear say and speculation.

Really? Why don't you show me proof of why my set up doesn't work rather than just "claim it doesn't, Back up your statement with actual proof.... then we will talk. Otherwise don't waste my time. I'm here voluntarily to assist others with there mechanical woes with my experiences and sometimes get others perspective. Your statement is not helpful on any level bud. Good thing you didn't post this on my ram air topic I might be more offended. I can show why the pic for this topic doesn't work, that's why i'm posting. What do you wish to accomplish with your statement? Please feel free to use my pics since all you have on hand is someone elses idea anyway... shouldn't be to hard eh.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Ben_R [OP] » October 1st 2013, 12:24am

cowboydan wrote:What do you wish to accomplish with your statement?


Wow :eek: Calm down dear it's just a comment! No need to be so tetchy or defensive :rofl:

Surely if the ram air mod for which you spent such an inordinate amount time and effort perfecting is as good as you say you would want to back up the power claims just like other normal human being :shrug:

I mean almost 100 RWHP is some serious gain, taking a stock 262 V6 and comparing it against a 350 V8

I know once I have finished my mods for this year I will be putting her on a RR to see what my time and effort has actually produced. No point in trying to kid myself what I have done has given me x RWHP, I'll spend a little bit of money finding.

cowboydan wrote:Please feel free to use my pics since all you have on hand is someone elses idea anyway... shouldn't be to hard eh


FYI the picture I posted was just spitballing, hence the comment "Food for thought?"
chevymaher wrote:You just apparently believe any ad a snake oil salesman post. Not actual Dynoed results.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby cowboydan » October 1st 2013, 12:58am

Ben R, Effort is like your beliefs. You have yet you make an effort to succeed while I hold success in my hand, Brilliant Theory and execution of words, cause who said anything about a 350? That would be you trying to put words in my mouth to suit your interests. My closest v8 contender is the 4.8 V8.... But you know that. FYI, the pic you posted "still" isn't effective, therefor not nutritious. I have run warm air intakes, I know the end result is not very satisfying. I don't need a dyno to know that. I might also recheck the whole 100hp statement cause 260-190=70. It seems as though you like to put words in my mouth. Now i'm getting agitated.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby markmitch » October 1st 2013, 1:02am

Fox bodied mustangs was a design stolen from the archives of american Motors archives , take a look at the AMC Gremlin then at a fox body , Ferd took there design made a few changes and they had the fox body cars. Just my opinion.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby cowboydan » October 1st 2013, 1:16am

markmitch wrote:I agree with the cooler denser air idea but as hood scoops go a rear facing scoop yields more then a forward scoop as has been proven over the years with various racing styles. And thats coming from a guy with a forward scoop.

This is what i call Cowell Induction, using high pressure from the windshield. Yes, it's effective. It's also on my 1980 regal. The system on my van however, actually uses the clutch fan to enhance the intakes designed effectiveness as apposed to just forward motion. I did remove the fan all together and my system became less effective at all speeds, but highway speeds.
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Re: Aftermarket Intake

Postby Ben_R [OP] » October 1st 2013, 1:42am

cowboydan wrote:You have yet you make an effort to succeed while I hold success in my hand, Brilliant Theory and execution of words


Nothing like a bit of modesty :bow:

cowboydan wrote:who said anything about a 350?


I assumed (wrongfully) that you were taking about the 350 V8, see quote below. Maybe you should have been more specific?!

cowboydan wrote:I easily make V8 power with it


If you had before & after data (before you say it, no, it's not a requirement) it might help members decide when considering the benefits vs. the effort/cost of this mod. I know that not everyone has time to do the numbers and post them here post but people will appreciate it.

I never implied that your system doesn't work and I wasn't putting holes in your mod. Sorry you took it the wrong way and assumed that was belittling your tinkering. As your mod is a reality for all to marvel we need results other than your feelings. Unfortunately until there is black and white proof that there is an improvement, is there any improvement? :shrug:

cowboydan wrote:That would be you trying to put words in my mouth to suit your interests. My closest v8 contender is the 4.8 V8.... But you know that.


Pot, Kettle, Black :doh: What interests? Also how would I know your "closest contender" is a 4.8 V8? Again the onus is on you to be more specific.

cowboydan wrote:The pic you posted "still" isn't effective, therefor not nutritious


I didn't said it was effective and I'm certainly not looking to eat it. Did you mean beneficial? As already posted above, I was just spitballing. Maybe you don't understand the term, let me explain it for you. Spitballing - To toss ideas around with no expectation of them coming to pass, to brainstorm.

cowboydan wrote:I have run warm air intakes, I know the end result is not very satisfying. I don't need a dyno to know that


Neither does anyone else, it isn't rocket science ;)
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chevymaher wrote:You just apparently believe any ad a snake oil salesman post. Not actual Dynoed results.
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