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Starts, won't stay running, no start - need help

9K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  MN_Safari_Pilot 
#1 ·
Hey all,

Great forum!!! Thanks for bein here!

This is my first post and hopefully I'm ok starting a new thread for this issue... I been thru 2 weeks and huge numbers of posts regarding similar conditions, though none have led me to a resolution. :banghead:

Most of my life I've bled blue (I like my Fords) :shrug: but I came into a 1993 Safari XT AWD (VIN W)... man these things are AWESOME, minus the damn injection system! I live in MN and this van is built for this weather... can't get it stuck!

OK... to the point. Forgive my lengthiness... I'm 2 weeks without wheels and stuck.

Background:

My Safari recently died after an 800 mile trip. It began as a misfire/hesitation exiting the Interstate, progressively got worse and 10 miles later pulling into the driveway (I got lucky) it died and would not restart. Cranks, won't fire.

Figuring I had run the thing empty, I know... :naughty: , I added 5 gallons... no go. To the standard troubleshooting fuel-air-spark....

-Spark is good and hot to each plug, but I replaced cap, rotor, wires and plugs for good measure.

-Fuel... pump was priming, pressure KOEO 60+psi and 80+ with return pinched and minimal leak down. I did find relay connectors for the fuel pump & manifold valve had melted somewhat and were "gooey". Repaired the connectors, testing all wires ensuring no shorts or excessive resistance... all seemed well but the melting still concerns me. Tested PCM connections, no issues. Dropped tank... connections and internals checked out in there... cleaned the "sock" and tank, changed filter (out toward engine), traced wiring and lines looking for leaks or restrictions (none), re-did grounds... including the thermostat grounds. Pulled and tested EGR... good with minimal carbon build up. Oil pressure switch also within spec. Add 9 gallons of fresh gasoline. Bleed air out. Pressure still kosher.

Still no go...

Off comes plenum... holy oil batman! It seems I missed the PCV valve had been removed at some point and not replaced :eek:, having the hose stuffed into the valve cover. Nothing is leaking to or from the spider. Power and pulse seem to be there at the connector, but when cranked poppets don't spray. Am I overlooking something that would cause this?

Currently... I'm am cleaning the plenum/spider as things were saturated with standing oil (hoping for a short here and will find joy after re-assembly. Intend to replace ETC sensor (near thermo housing), but current one seems to check out. Also replacing pigtail and hoses that are brittle.

Also, could be mere coincidence... during my trip i had run into a downpour and had wipers running, go to turn em off after rain and they refused to do so, all speeds worked, just would not shut off. As I went to exit interstate to check things out, they stopped. :? Some of the MANY posts i have read thru mentioned a possibility of a no start/stalling due to connection issues or switch in column, but not in detail. Any thoughts on possible relation?

The temp gauge also had been intermittently going pegged, connector seemed lose, but sensor ohmed out fine and grounding wire proves gauge working... now back on tightly.

Found THESE article I have not seen in any of the posts or forums...
http://www.underhoodservice.com/Art...k__central_port_fuel_injection_diagnosis.aspx
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/july97/techtips.htm
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/feb2000/techtotech.htm
... could have been useful at the beginning. :violin:

Any help would be much appreciated while I have the spider exposed. :feedback:

:ty: Thanks for your time... hope to have my wheels back today as cabin fever is setting in.
 
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#2 ·
Hi MN_Safari_Pilot

Welcome to the Forum

How did the plugs look when you pulled them out to check them?

Any bare wires from the engine to the computer?

Did you check the Temp and Crank Position (if you have one) Sensor?

Any blown fuses?

Any after market items installed?

Thanks.:)
 
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#3 ·
everything Matrixx stated, and check the connector to the fuel injector itself, and relocate the groundwire that goes to the thermostat housing, if it's there.
 
#4 ·
Yes, check the ground wire at the thermostat as well. Good call on that rev_les, Thanks.:)
 
#5 ·
Thanks for your replys guys.... I believe I have found the problem late yesterday... :banana:

The injector ohmed out at 2.1 ohms, the specs I have seen state 1.5 (+- .2) ohms which would mean 1.3-1.7. Guess I'm in the market for a whole new injector. :cry:

I'll update as i go, though i'm sure the hunt for a new spider will take some time as I am on a tight budget.

Thanks again!!
 
#6 ·
This has peaked my curiosity. Yes, if you could let us know how things go, that would be great, Thanks MN_Safari_Pilot.:)
 
#7 ·
See DJSteve in this thread for a possible replacement spider injector -- http://astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1591.

As for your crazy wiper behavior, GM replaced tons of wiper control boards due to failure when it rains. Ironic, huh? Mine on a '95 was just replaced under the recall which was still in force for my year van. I'd call the service department at your local dealer with your VIN and see if they can look it up.

Good luck.
 
#9 ·
Hey guys & gals,

My apologies to MobileCustoms & e28fixer for not responding to your replies. Just ain't enuff time in a day...

:ty: e28fixer - Thank you for the wiper info... I'll certainly check into the recall stuff as soon as I'm rollin' again.
MobileCustoms - Thanks for the reminder... I am familiar with SPP Parts, in fact a good friend of mine went to school with the brothers that run the place... I just never remember them as I am rarely on the side of the river. :shrug: At the risk of exposing my inner "dumpster diver", :layrubber: I admit my appreciation of a good sprawling scrap yard run by pack rats! :rockon: I'm sure some of ya know what I mean... :D

Topic Update...

After exhausting my local outlets online and "guys" I know, I located one on Ebay that was priced very well... $30! :banana:
Wound up payin' $56 for it. Still a great price... it IS very clean and ohms out ok. I'll update once I get things back together and test!



Just a thought... the description the guy used on ebay was very well put and may assist others with FI issues with identifications. :shrug:

EBAY TITLE: "GM CPI SPIDER FUEL INJECTOR UNIT USED WORKING CONDITION OUT OF RUNNING 94 ZR2 S10 4.3"
EBAY DESCRIPTION: "This is a CPI (Central Port Injection) fuel injector spider for a 1992-1995 4.3L "W" Chevrolet/GMC motor. It fits (Astro/Safari vans, S10 Pickup and Blazers, Oldsmobile Bravadas both two wheel and four wheel drive Series) vehicles. The eighth digit of your VIN # should be a "W" which is a "L35" engine. The GM part # is 17113673 and the AC Delco # is 217-1431. This item new retails for $300.00 To $400.00"

:feedback:

Also, another quick question I cannot find an answer to...

is there a resistance test that can be used to check the MAP sensors on the "W" engines?

Perhaps any other thoughts of things to "re-do" while I got the plenum off? Reading so many posts and articles during this repair, I don't wanna forget anything... especially somethin' easy.

Thanks again! Update soon...
 
#10 ·
Installed the spider injector I bought from ebay. Reinstall the plenum and hooked everything back up. Bled the fuel line through the schrader valve, it fired right up. YAY!

I have warmed it up and shut it down and it starts right back up... WOOHOO! :banana:

I'm gonna go for a test drive to ensure things are kosher, but it seems the CPI spider injector was indeed the cause of this no start issue.

Thanks for all the input guys... I appreciate the work that is taken to keep this site up and running it is a stellar resource for these vans!! :ty:
 
#11 ·
UPDATE: as I am still dealing with a no start. Keep in mind I have been trying my damnedest to avoid the most likely bad fuel pump scenario...

4 days after the Safari was running again... pulled into my driveway, ate lunch, go to leave and... nothing. NO PUMP PRIME this time. Last thing to fix before the pump was the wiring harness. I re-wired a custom harness with a separate relay and toggle switch. Re-install pump and tank... viola... pump is back in action. Go for the test drive around the block no problems... return home, shut off van, attempt to re-start... NO PUMP PRIME AGAIN. Bang on tank with rubber mallet and pump starts. Conclusion: Bad pump

Found a local salvage yard that will sell me an entire sending unit and pump for $80 AND... this is a big one... a lifetime warranty! If the pump dies they will replace it for free (as long as I bring em the receipt) transferrable too! Will be picking it up tomorrow.

I found this page regarding our beloved Vans and related vehicles eating multiple pumps... something to think about for sure!

http://www.alldatadiy.com/techtips/Chevy/20020920d.html

I'll bump this one when I finally get the pump in and van running for good!
 
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