Wilwood front calipers .. anyone using these?

[xDaemoNx]

Couldnt find any threads on Wilwood...

anyone using these on their astro/safari?

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeK ... modoption=

Thinking of getting these for my 1995 astro...

[T.Neff]

There is no need for them which require hard braking for them to work correctly when there is a front brake upgrade for these vans.

[xDaemoNx]

so the c20 calipers + pads are an better way to go?

[RECox286]

Not to be a nay sayer, but what, if anything, is wrong with the stock brake system components. It has been working okey-dokey for us ever since we started driving these trucks in 1986.

Push the right pedal to go, and the left pedal to apply the binders. Works as advertised, 100% of the time. (I would say: it stops on a dime, and gives you nine cents change, but I'm not an avid fisherman.)

Bob

[93xtmoney]

Amen bob! Most of my brake system is pretty new and works awesome. Nothing aftermarket.

[Bis]

I ride fully loaded (cargo area) most of the time and could use more stopping power. This thread was going the right way until you party poopers shot it down. J/K

[RECox286]

Maybe you need a bigger truck ???

Bob

[throrope]

I'm with RECox286.

Believe it or not, manufacturer's put significant effort in matching, sizing, proportioning brake systems for each vehicle. In hydraulics, for the same fluid pressure, the bigger the piston face, the larger the force. Conversely, for the same force, a bigger piston requires less pressure. Also, a bigger piston requires greater fluid volume.

IMHO, increasing the front caliper piston size, will upset the front to rear balance because more force will get applied to the front calipers than the rear wheel cylinders. Since the stock calipers have significantly more piston area than the rear wheel cylinders and the most of the vehicle weight is transferred to the front wheels when braking, I suspect different part numbers apply to the Astro and C20 master cylinders and related ABS systems for good reason. I also don't want to explain to an injured passenger why I know more than GM.

After renewing my front calipers the first time, I felt like I was heading through the windshield at the first red light. Instead of the windshield, what hit me was the need for working brakes, not more brakes. Calipers see extreme heat and many cycles. Given the life span of these trucks, no caliper can be expected to live as long and I consider them similar to pads, maintenance items.

I never tire or being floored by what custom shops do for these trucks, but Astros are a do anything jack of all trades, master of none. They will not plow through soft beach sand like an off road Silverado in 4wd low range, won't haul near as much as an Econoline E-350 and can't keep up with a Camero SS. Aside from the V-8 and diesel swaps, I don't see risking mucking up the works for a small difference especially when the stock parts are dirt cheap.

[RECox286]

Uh, OK. Not that I want to be a party pooper, or a know-it-all, but, I think the above sums up my thoughts pretty well. Thank you. (Some of you may want to consider thinking about Thoropes' discertation before you go re-engineering your stop system.) I can see changing the OE parts with AM heavier duty replacements, and I would be first in line to install power brakes if mine came without that option, but basically I
prefer to keep my vehicles as they came from the factory. They are one tough little truck for the money spent, and they last a long time with the proper care.

Bob

(My own thoughts. No disrespect intended towards any body.)

[ProStreet_LS1]

Why does it say up to 1996? Where is no difference between 96 front Astro brakes and 97-2002, is there?

[RECox286]

Hey youse guys,

You may want to find out from your insurance carrier whether or not you are putting yourself in jeopardy when you fool with the brake system on your ride. Heaven help you if you do get into a jam,
and find out that you are not covered because of some modification that was done to 'spiffy' up the love of your life.

Bob

[rev_les]

Just to toss a monkey wrench into the non-reading nay sayers gears.......



"Wilwood's D52 Front Caliper Kit is a direct bolt-on 2 piston replacement for the factory original single calipers on many 1968-96 GM Passenger Vehicles and Trucks. Forged billet aluminum bodies, stainless steel pistons, and competition style high-temperature seals put an end to the rust, bore pitting, and seal failures that plague the OE caliper design. D52 calipers provide low-maintenance performance and a huge weight savings with high temperature reliability for the street and track. D52 calipers mount in the stock location over stock rotors, use the original style OE D52 brake pads and an OE 7/16-20 banjo bolt brake line mounting. Calipers can be used with most wheels that clear the OE calipers. The front calipers with 2.00” piston provide 6.28 square inches of piston area per caliper, in order to maintain the original front to rear brake bias and use of the OE master cylinder. Kits contain Wilwood’s hardened slide pins and BP-10 high friction pads. Matching rear calipers are also available for custom installations. Vehicles 1978 & Up (with M10-1.5 banjo bolts) will require new brake lines available below."

[RECox286]

'well, now, yes-siree-bob. That would be a big time improvement, while still keeping the JB brake system in stock limits. I have no qualms about that at all.

See ? I can be house trained (ask my bride !) I just don't want any of youse guys to get yer teats in a wringer, ya know...

Bob

[Shad0wXCalibur]

If you want a quick and easy upgrade, get some severe duty pads for a 85 C20 with the JB7 brakes. They're bigger and fit directly behind the stock calipers.

[rev_les]

hehe, I just wanted to read the specs and saw that. However, with Wilwood being a major player in brakes, if they say it's a direct replacement, you can bet that they did their research. They're not in business to be paying attorneys.

[xDaemoNx]

i've bought a pair of wilwood calipers. i will put them on my car within 2 weeks along with raybestos discs and new bearings and brake hoses etc,, update will come, the wilwood calipers look great .. if i eventuality put on 20" wheels it will look cool when they show through...

[mervchapman]

I upgraded my sticking caliper(s) to SSBC calipers and have no regrets at all. they are much more responsive, bind faster, dump speed faster and more predictably, are much lighter (for what little that's worth) and give better feedback. I'm generally a fan of keeping stuff stock but I tow w/ my AWD '01 and feel much more confident with eth SSBC calipers. From what I recall they did not list the part numbers for the 2001 AWD on their site, but I cross-referenced with the tahoe/ suburban applications that used the same brakes courtesy of autozone part number interchange on their website.

I can't speak to the wilwood's but would highly recommend the SSBC's you can see em on my "2000 Tahoe Limited Rims on 2001 AWD" thread in the wheels section.... They came with pads and I used new oem (I think) rotors.

[paintdrying]

I would have to disagree with the idea the engineers made the brakes as best as possible on all cars. My toyota truck really had a poor braking system for example. My Silverado had poor braking, once you replaced the rubber lines with stainless steel braided you were back in business.
For everyday use these little vans have a great braking system. For what they are asking on those calipers I would pass.

[mervchapman]

I've driven a few different astro's and my brakes are significantly better than the factory setup. When GM switched to the six bolt wheels in 2003 they used bigger (more expensive) brakes up front and went to (more expensive) rear disks -that says a lot about the earlier brake implementation.

The upgraded SSBC calipers on my 2001 have bigger pads and there's no doubt at all they grab the rotor sooner and harder than the stock calipers. They have much better bearing surfaces which avoid the wear that was visibly apparent in my sub 100k miles orig calipers. I could grab the orig calipers and twist and rotate them relative to the rotor literally as they were in operation. I had my wife gently push the brake pedal as i rotated the rotor by hand, I could see the caliper halves twisting relative to each other as they grabbed the disk. It was obvious that the pads were wearing unevenly due to the play in the calipers. placing the worn pads on a flat surface, they were clearly rounded with a 'rocker' to them.

I'm sure this rocker contributed to a degree of 'sponge' effect as they engage the rotor with only a fraction of the pad contacting the rotor 1st, followed by the rest of the surface area as the pad deforms under increasing pressure, similar effect as the piston pressure backs off.

My new calipers have much better bushings and apply pressure to the pads evenly and consistently. I have not upgraded the rear drums at all nor had to muck around with proportioning. If I was pushing the limits around corners and hard braking, I'd have a proportioning valve in there but with the variable rear load (various passengers and towing configurations) I wind up with, there's not much point screwing around with f-r proportioning. I rely on my ABS for hard stops which engages much more quickly, predictably and actually works better with noticeably less spongelike response from the calipers up front.

The SSBC calipers cost me about $400 per side but IMO worth every buck. I've had em on for about 40k and will need to replace the pads soon.The pads and rotors are wearing evenly, the rotor working / wearing surface looks just like it's off a $100k mercedes or BMW.

Anyyway, net effect of changing just the calipers w significantly faster brake grab, much better response to change in brake pressure during a stop and overall more confident stops. One of the tests I use when evaluating brakes is how easy it is to consistently come to a super-smooth stop. What I mean is as the vehicle stops -the moment the vehicle stops, should be just about imperceptible to a passenger with his/ her eyes closed - no grunting from the brakes, no lurching of the suspension, no shuddering, no jerking around. Sounds easy but give it a try. You want to brake assertively but as you get down to 2 mph or so you ought to be able to back off the brake pedal pressure so that passengers heads don't jerk back (or forward) as you come to a stop. If you can do this consistently starting from a hard stop but backing off pressure as you're about to stop while still stopping where you intend to, then you've got decent brakes.

I could never do this consistently before the better calipers, but now it's one of the things I enjoy most about driving it around, no more "sticky" stops!

I tow my wakeboard boat with my family and feel much more comfortable hitting the brakes hard on the freeway. I rekon a few feet may someday make the difference that'll justify the cost of the calipers.

Here's a random writeup I found on my calipers, they were bolt-on for the astro, no mods, bearings etc required

http://www.truckinweb.com/tech/0807tr_s ... ewall.html

[chevymaher]

Rear disk would be a good thing. But I keep hearing bashing about the older brakes. Really if they are right they are good. Somebody needs to drive mine. Brakes are like a brick at the pedal don't give and don't fade.They last 10 years even with my abuse. Stand on them the wheels stop spinning till the anti-lock kicks in.

My mother ask me to look at the brakes when she still owned it. Seemed the rear wheels were chirping when she let off the brake. Yea they do that when you lift the back wheels off the ground.

I drive like a idiot and have no problems. My question is what are you guys doing that your so worried about them not being good enough.

The only reason I can see for upgraded brakes is if your driving through the Jellico mountains overloaded with a trailer, on a regular basis.