*REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!!!

*REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 22nd 2012, 2:01am

I have made this video to put this to REST once and for all - the astro van ABS/BRAKE light issues.

HERE IS THE REAL FIX - someone in charge please make this a 'sticky'

**WATCH VIDEO BELOW**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6Sk7-fm0I

**WATCH VIDEO ABOVE**

This is the REAL FIX for ANY Chevy Kelsey Hayes 325 EBCM module - common on Astro Van, S10, Corvette, etc. There is NO NEED to 'mail it in for repair' to the online 'companies' out there. YOU can do it YOURSELF in about 10 minutes on your kitchen table with a simple 25 watt soldering iron and some flux.

The fix WORKS - I have done it MULTIPLE TIMES. All the 'repair companies' do is RE-SOLDER the broken joints typically around the relay (code co256) - NO "NEW RELAY" IS PUT IN. The RELAY is NOT the problem! Its simply old solder.

Do it your self and save $100-$1,700

Cost for repair if you have a soldering iron laying around is $0

Typical symptoms:

BRAKE and ABS light come on 'intermittently' seemingly when 'going over a bump', doesn't happen all the time, code co265 may show WITH an ABS code-reader

Comment with questions.

--Rolling Rock
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby ccookie66 » August 22nd 2012, 2:09am

Oh wow, my ABS light has been on for years, I'm going to look into this fix. :ty:
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 22nd 2012, 2:16am

ccookie66 wrote:Oh wow, my ABS light has been on for years, I'm going to look into this fix. :ty:


It works, make sure the EBCM is a KH325 unit
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Big_kid » August 22nd 2012, 3:58am

Kinda like the wiper control board. I hope GM has improved their soldering skills over the past 20 years.
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 22nd 2012, 5:31am

Big_kid wrote:Kinda like the wiper control board. I hope GM has improved their soldering skills over the past 20 years.



Yeah - same basic issue... thankfully this is an easy fix! :rockon:
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby ratdude747 » August 22nd 2012, 6:43am

I saw this happen in some other car (IIRC it was a Toyota) on an EricTheCarGuy youtube episode...

Vibration will wreck solder joints like you wouldn't believe... Trust me, I'm a Electrical Engineering Technology student who also does electronics repair on the side (and also happens to be a Astro and Safari fan).

This happens to relays in ALL locations on ANY car. However, the relay in this thread seems to be a little extra vulnerable for whatever reason.

Being a soldering expert, my best advice is to not add too much solder when you reflow the joints with the iron (for relays, soldering guns work if you don't overheat it). You should aim for joints that look like Hershey's kisses:

Image

Also, if your joints look like little balls, that's equally bad. The key is to make sure the solder is "flowed into" both the lead and the solder track.

It helps if your solder is of the thinner variety; I prefer solder that is roughly the thickness of a bare paper clip. Thicker solders are more suited for soldering large wires (10 gauge or bigger), plumbing, and other larger items.

I also prefer 63/37 Leaded solder. 60/40 also works well. Lead-free solder takes a lot more heat to flow properly and isn't recommended by myself. If you absolutely must use lead free, I find that 99.7% Sn/ 0.7% Cu works the best.

Last, If possible, make sure your solder is Flux Cored and uses "no-clean" flux. Acid based and Aqueous fluxes have to be removed after you solder using rubbing alcohol (or water for the latter) or else the flux will eat up the relay module. I am not a big fan of using external flux with fluxless solder but if you opt to go that route, don't overdo it with the flux. It doesn't need much.

My :2: .
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » August 22nd 2012, 12:14pm

Very good write up. I am sure this is the cause of the majority of intermittent misses folks on the site are having. The ones that are impossible to track down. Once all the wiring connectors are fixed and sensors are replaced.

A reason I dread those little issues coming into the shop. I always find this to be a root cause. And on a older car nobody can afford to fix them correctly. Sensors wires and computer and labor are always worth more than the vehicle. Skill has nothing to do with my hatred for computers. I can fix them. The problem is the sadness in the owner knowing a good car is dying/getting junked because it is cheaper to buy a new one that fix it.
I do my best to rig it and get them going when they can't fix them right.
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 22nd 2012, 4:22pm

Thanks, ALL good points --- the soldering robot must have been a little out of tune when it soldered these modules as it happens on nearly ALL of them on many different GM models regardless of its mounting location...
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 22nd 2012, 4:28pm

chevymaher wrote:Very good write up.



THANXXX :wave:
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Corsemoto » August 23rd 2012, 12:19am

Can't really blame GM for the soldering, it's not like they were soldering these in the factory before installing them in the cars as Kelsey Hayes produced the modules. That they have problems over such a wide spread of years and didn't do anything about it is another story.

All good info, only things I would add are it is abs code CO265 and to re-seal the module with silicone prior to reassembly. That and relays and solenoids do fail which is significantly more work to un-solder the solenoids and board in order to replace those items and risk damaging the board doing. I don't really consider $70 with a 5+ year warranty to be outrageous for this kind of work but being able to fix it myself same day for next to nothing is definitely a better alternative.

Here are a couple good reads on the repair procedure as well:

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f137/abs-module-light-fix-with-pics-493108/

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/abs-code-265-electronic-brake-control-module-motor-relay-circuit-465511/
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » August 23rd 2012, 12:42am

Corsemoto wrote:Can't really blame GM for the soldering.


Sure I can.
I didn't make them pass on quality control.
They build the vehicle they are responsible for the parts they use to build it. Sounds like a governmental pass the buck excuses to me.
And I am the poor dork stuck fixing their shoddy work.
Isn't my fault but I paying for it.
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 23rd 2012, 3:24am

Corsemoto wrote:Can't really blame GM for the soldering, it's not like they were soldering these in the factory before installing them in the cars as Kelsey Hayes produced the modules. That they have problems over such a wide spread of years and didn't do anything about it is another story.

All good info, only things I would add are it is abs code CO265 and to re-seal the module with silicone prior to reassembly. That and relays and solenoids do fail which is significantly more work to un-solder the solenoids and board in order to replace those items and risk damaging the board doing. I don't really consider $70 with a 5+ year warranty to be outrageous for this kind of work but being able to fix it myself same day for next to nothing is definitely a better alternative.

Here are a couple good reads on the repair procedure as well:

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f137/abs-module-light-fix-with-pics-493108/

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f105/abs-code-265-electronic-brake-control-module-motor-relay-circuit-465511/




Like I said in the video/write up - the relay and solenoids are *NOT* what goes bad! Im clearing this up RIGHT NOW ONCE AND FOR ALL! $70 + a "5 year warranty" -- give me a break - I opened that box up - theres no way someone is going to desolder and remove and replace the relay for $70 -- thats not enough money vs the time involved --

however $70 to take 5 minutes to add some new solder to TYPICAL GM broken solder joints - makes sense...

theres too much myth - co265 - relay curcuit ... to be sure (if you want) TEST the relay yourself when you have the module open - IT WILL WORK! - the problem is the solder leads, thats all...

I love how the 'online ebcm repair hustlers' say stuff like 'we use trained technicians', or 'we can ONLY repair KH325' --- NONSENSE! ANY module CAN be repaired - its just that the KH325 is the EASIEST to repair (some new solder) to get $70-200 out of a mark.

IF you have go through the trouble of mailing your ebcm out to get it 'rebuilt' (lol..as if it has cylinder walls and piston rings...lol) BEFORE you do, simply cut it open, re-solder the joints - slap it back on the van with a rubber band around it (instead of silicone) to temporarily test it -- lights out? Good I just saved you $150 buck! :wave:
Last edited by Rolling_Rock on August 23rd 2012, 3:29am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 23rd 2012, 3:28am

chevymaher wrote:
Corsemoto wrote:Can't really blame GM for the soldering.


Sure I can.
I didn't make them pass on quality control.
They build the vehicle they are responsible for the parts they use to build it. Sounds like a governmental pass the buck excuses to me.
And I am the poor dork stuck fixing their shoddy work.
Isn't my fault but I paying for it.



All true -

and like ANY mass-produced item, if they fail, the ALL fail the same way (typically) - the KH325 fails at the solder joints -- MANY electronic devices suffer similar fates... but in mechanics 'common problems' have COMMON SOLUTIONS...

Image

^ an example of what causes the mayhem -- happens ALL THE TIME on electrical components
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby PJorgen » August 27th 2012, 8:14pm

Great info, this problem has just come up on my '03 Safari. But one question - where is the ECBM located on the vehicle? Is it hard to remove? (Guess that's two questions).
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » August 28th 2012, 12:15am

PJorgen wrote:Great info, this problem has just come up on my '03 Safari. But one question - where is the ECBM located on the vehicle? Is it hard to remove? (Guess that's two questions).


Lay down under the drivers seat area (more or less) you'll see 2 nuts holding on a metal cover - remove that and the unit is sitting up under there - its on the drivers 'frame rail'...

the 'hard' part is losseing the t20 bolts - there is VERY LITTLE ROOM and the heads could be corroded and therefore easily get stripped - as with everything in life - take your TIME.

Here is a sequence of hardest to easiest of the 4 t20 bolts

[front of astro]

[PIA (fuel line in the way)] [very easy]


[hard] [easy]

[rear of astro]


Image
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Wolphin » September 5th 2012, 9:01pm

I am looking at the directions to do the fix, and all the directions that I can find say to replace the screws that hold the EBCM to the BPMV. So far I can find out they are T20, but not how long or what thread they are! That includes all the manuals I have my hands on. I don't want to pull the module before having the extra screws on hand.

This seems to be a very nice fix, just have to get time to check all the grounds first, then to do it and replacing the RF speed sensor... Hopefully this will clear many of the codes I have on my van...
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » September 7th 2012, 4:34am

Wolphin wrote:I am looking at the directions to do the fix, and all the directions that I can find say to replace the screws that hold the EBCM to the BPMV. So far I can find out they are T20, but not how long or what thread they are! That includes all the manuals I have my hands on. I don't want to pull the module before having the extra screws on hand.

This seems to be a very nice fix, just have to get time to check all the grounds first, then to do it and replacing the RF speed sensor... Hopefully this will clear many of the codes I have on my van...



FUDGE your manual! Just take your TIME and carefully undo the 4 T20 bolts, re-solder, and you're done!

ITS EAZY! :wave:
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby MadMaxiVan » September 7th 2012, 5:37am

Excellent Topic,Excellent Repair tips.
You Sir,absolutely Rock !!
cheers!

now i know how to fix that,as its been on since i bought my b-team van.
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby TDMobile » September 7th 2012, 6:15am

Guess you did it LIKE A BOSS, eh rolling_rock? :lol:
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Re: *REAL FIX FOR Astro Van Intermittent brake & ABS light!!

Postby Rolling_Rock [OP] » September 7th 2012, 9:42pm

MadMaxiVan wrote:Excellent Topic,Excellent Repair tips.
You Sir,absolutely Rock !!
cheers!

now i know how to fix that,as its been on since i bought my b-team van.



FIX YOUR EBCM LIKE A BOSS!! :clap:
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