Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Rupert [OP] » August 30th 2011, 11:32pm

So I have developed a creaking noise from the front end of my van only when I have my foot on the brake and I'm turning the steering wheel, then as I move off from a stop light a get a creak or two but no more. It has been going on for a while but would like to have it fixed. I took it to my local mechanic and he said to take it to the dealer, which I can't afford, as he could not figure out the problem. He said it wasn't any of the linkage that would be making the noise, as I can do it in park in the driveway and get the same result. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Jasen » August 31st 2011, 12:36am

Wonder if it's something as dumb as dirty rubber suspension bushings creaking.
I have an occasional pop/clunk in my front end while turning. I pushed and pulled on everything with the front end in the air, took it in to the dealer, they could find anything either.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Lumpy » August 31st 2011, 1:11am

Lube the front end?... :shrug:

See if that clears it up.


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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Rupert [OP] » August 31st 2011, 1:16am

It only happens when my foot is on the brake, if my foots not on the brake it doesn't make a sound. I was thinking possibly the brake master cylinder or the power steering pump.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Lumpy » August 31st 2011, 1:42am

Rupert wrote:It only happens when my foot is on the brake, if my foots not on the brake it doesn't make a sound. I was thinking possibly the brake master cylinder or the power steering pump.


You said it happens when you're coming off a stop? Is that with brake on or off?
You said only when turning?

Lots of variables. I'd still spend 20c on grease to start. Check your brake fluid.
Pull the wheels off and spray brake cleaner. Look for brake wear. While you're there look at
all the front end bushings and joints, shocks and mounts, calipers, flux capacitor bypass valve.

Do you have any aftermarket bushings that are urethane rather than orig rubber?

Put it up on jackstands. Take the front wheels off. Have someone do the moves
from the driver seat while you watch and listen underneath.


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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby RECox286 » August 31st 2011, 2:12am

Hey Lump,

Not exactly sure that the flux capacitor bypass valve has anything to do with the power brake fuse (60A biggie fuse) circuit.

So I'm guessing perhaps you should be thinking more in terms of a ball joint or wheel bearing, etc that is moving when loaded, then released. No ?

I know you wouldn't like to be giving out bad tips.

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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby RECox286 » August 31st 2011, 2:29am

This could be a little dangerous, but if you have a driver whom you trust implicitly: get under the truck, while it is running, with a person to "drive" the brake and steering and only moving slightly enough to emulate the creak/clunk whatever, while you touch components until you find the source of the squeeker. If I am right, you will have very little trouble pinpointing the problem by moving barely an inch or two.

If you desire to put the front end in the air, you will lose the "loading" of the component that is giving you the noise. And, if you put the rear end in the air, you will not be able to "load" the components either.
This may sound extreme, but, perhaps you can find a maintenance pit to safely hide in under the truck. This may be the one way to git-er-done. I believe this is the way I would go, and maybe use a long reach stethoscope instead of my digits, of which I have become quite fond, daresay attached.

Or, next thought, live with the noise til something breaks, then you will know what it was fer sure.

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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby drmmhmd » August 31st 2011, 2:52am

when you put on the brake and turn the steering wheel, the ride height of the vehicle changes, you are in fact lifting or lowering the vehicle with the hydraulics of the power steering. it seems from you postings that you have tried nothing that has been suggested. greasing everthing that has a zerk fitting would be the easiest and cheapest intervention. top up or change the fluid in your power steering, sometimes the power steering pump will shudder under load.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » August 31st 2011, 3:30am

Jasen wrote:Wonder if it's something as dumb as dirty rubber suspension bushings creaking.
I have an occasional pop/clunk in my front end while turning. I pushed and pulled on everything with the front end in the air, took it in to the dealer, they could find anything either.


My 2000 does the same thing. It's annoying as hell because my old truck did the same thing too and I could never figure out what it was. I hate hearing it. I can't figure it out and I don't wanna wait for something to finally wear out for me to figure it out but I guess I have to.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby drmmhmd » August 31st 2011, 3:44am

Shad0wXCalibur wrote:
Jasen wrote:Wonder if it's something as dumb as dirty rubber suspension bushings creaking.
I have an occasional pop/clunk in my front end while turning. I pushed and pulled on everything with the front end in the air, took it in to the dealer, they could find anything either.


My 2000 does the same thing. It's annoying as hell because my old truck did the same thing too and I could never figure out what it was. I hate hearing it. I can't figure it out and I don't wanna wait for something to finally wear out for me to figure it out but I guess I have to.



the clunk thing turning is usually the sway bar rolling in worn bushings or the sway links pivoting. the problem with visual inspection is that many sway bars quickly develop slop in their bushings and you cannot reproduce the sound leveraging them around with a bar. given how cheap they are and easy to replace, I would just change the sway bar bushings and sway links. any other significant wear in the front end would be easy to detect and would affect handling. if you never go around corners like an idiot you will never know if your sway bar effect is changing over time. bushing wear delays weight transfer effect from the sway bar and can create a "break point" in which when you are ripping around a corner the sway bar effect suddenly occurs as the slop is taken up in the bushings and the vehicle does an odd body roll correction.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » August 31st 2011, 4:05am

drmmhmd wrote:the clunk thing turning is usually the sway bar rolling in worn bushings or the sway links pivoting. the problem with visual inspection is that many sway bars quickly develop slop in their bushings and you cannot reproduce the sound leveraging them around with a bar. given how cheap they are and easy to replace, I would just change the sway bar bushings and sway links. any other significant wear in the front end would be easy to detect and would affect handling. if you never go around corners like an idiot you will never know if your sway bar effect is changing over time. bushing wear delays weight transfer effect from the sway bar and can create a "break point" in which when you are ripping around a corner the sway bar effect suddenly occurs as the slop is taken up in the bushings and the vehicle does an odd body roll correction.


Well I am kinda wanting to install poly bushings for the sway bar one day but I don't think that's it because I usually only hear it with the wheel cranked to the right slowly creeping out onto the road from a parking lot or something. It's more of a small pop than a clunk. My truck did this exact same thing.... I did all kind of wiggle/pry bar tests on everything and couldn't find anything obviously defective. I dunno but I will do those because even the polys aren't expensive and I'm interested in trying to get this tall tank handling a little better.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Rupert [OP] » September 5th 2011, 4:27am

So I managed to try out some of your suggestions today. I replaced the front sway bar bushings and lubed the front end all to no avail. I still get the noise, I do also get it whilst I drive going over bumps etc with no pressure on the brake, but when I'm in park in the driveway it only does it with the brake pedal depressed.
It was a good job I decided to crawl under the van to figure out this as I noticed a pretty good leak from a rear brake cylinder which I'll have to take care of. So much for a day off.
I was wondering if a steering gear could make this kind of noise. or could it be the steering shaft or hydroboost?
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 4:41am

Rupert wrote:So I managed to try out some of your suggestions today. I replaced the front sway bar bushings and lubed the front end all to no avail. I still get the noise, I do also get it whilst I drive going over bumps etc with no pressure on the brake, but when I'm in park in the driveway it only does it with the brake pedal depressed.
It was a good job I decided to crawl under the van to figure out this as I noticed a pretty good leak from a rear brake cylinder which I'll have to take care of. So much for a day off.
I was wondering if a steering gear could make this kind of noise. or could it be the steering shaft or hydroboost?


if you have ever operated a backhoe or any hydraulic equipment, if you strain the hydraulics to the limits you get a shudder, maybe the same thing. try jacking the vehicle up in the centre crossmember so that the wheels dangle and start it, push the brakes and turn the wheel. see what happens.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » September 5th 2011, 4:42am

Sounds like an a-frame bushing squeaking.Try just rocking the front of the van with it not running.Bounce it up and down.Worth a check I have had it before on a couple camaros I had.Push down on the fender there the squeak plain as day.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Rupert [OP] » September 25th 2011, 1:44am

UPDATE:

I tried changing out the front swaybar mounts and lubing the whole front end but that was not the problem. So I found a better mechanic that I think I'm going to use from now on. They figured out in about 5 minutes the actual problem. It was a cross member bushings that were wornout and was causing all the noise. It was quite disconcerting as it was getting progressively worse and I didn't want a catastrophic failure of a steering component seeing as we wanted to take the van on a 1500 mile round trip vacation.

But it is all fixed now and I'm very relieved. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Lumpy » September 25th 2011, 3:21am

Glad you got it figured out.

I'm not exactly sure what a "crossmember bushing" is? Where's that?

(Waiting for someone to say "on the crossmember, dummy")


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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby Shad0wXCalibur » September 25th 2011, 5:48am

Lumpy wrote:Glad you got it figured out.

I'm not exactly sure what a "crossmember bushing" is? Where's that?

(Waiting for someone to say "on the crossmember, dummy")


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I was gonna ask about that too. Maybe he meant the front body mounts?
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Re: Creaking when brake is pushed and turning steering wheel

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » September 25th 2011, 1:04pm

Shad0wXCalibur wrote:
Lumpy wrote:Glad you got it figured out.

I'm not exactly sure what a "crossmember bushing" is? Where's that?

(Waiting for someone to say "on the crossmember, dummy")


Lump



I was gonna ask about that too. Maybe he meant the front body mounts?

Got me interested.I went and looked on mine.On the rear transmission mount I got 2 two rubber bushings,between the mount and the cross-member where it bolts to it.It was on my cross-member.Sorry had to say that. I looked online parts house does not list it.Picture in the dark with my phones flash but at least I held still this time.
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