coil and ignition module

coil and ignition module

Postby WoodButcher [OP] » August 8th 2011, 1:22am

I have had a wet/ no start condition for quite some time and have isolated the problem.(i think!) This morning after last nights rain she cranked happily but no start, I sprayed the coil and ignition module w/ WD40 and she fired right off. Tune up was done in January, w/ new dizzy and cap, http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/detail.aspx?Item=6671-BK wires, plugs, and a coil. The issue seemed to be gone but reared it's ugly nose again. The coil was the local autozone flavor, so this and or the ignition module must the problem. I'm thinking to replace both the next time I pull the doghouse. Are there any better than stock options?
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby chevymaherchevymaher is online! » August 8th 2011, 1:30am

I had that issue on a KZ750R I had it rained it would not pull hills.I fixed its little red wagon by sealing the connections with silicon.Pressure washer right on it running never did it again.Just something to think about.Jeeps do it for river crossing to.Clean the connections real good seal any entrance for water.Peels right off if you need to work on it later.
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby WoodButcher [OP] » August 8th 2011, 1:34am

Damn, that never crossed my mind. That would probably work fine if it is just the connection.
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » August 8th 2011, 2:56am

Last summer I spent a good deal of time trying to find if there was a coil that was better than factory stock , and found that most coils for this van make about the same voltage , it just that brands like Accel & ,Streetfire i think made by MSD were of high quality construction but still about the same or a little better voltage output , In order to get high voltage it was a significantly higher price for special ignition systems like those on race cars , for a street van not really worth the cost , key thing with the module is keeping it cool and give it periodic fresh coat of dielectric grease between it and the heat sink

I have been thinking about installing a small 2 inch fan from a computer onto the module to add extra cooling to it , it runs on 12 volts so it be easy , just may be overkill , but maybe add just that extra cooler temp for longer life :mrgreen:
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby WoodButcher [OP] » August 8th 2011, 4:23am

Dielectric grease? wouldn't thermal paste be better?
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » August 8th 2011, 1:34pm

Dielectric grease is what the factory uses as it helps eliminate and prevent moisture from forming and prevents corrosion from forming , Thermal paste probably could be used but does not prevent moisture from getting in and corrosion ; in an outdoor environment there is much more moisture to deal with than in something like a computer that is in a dry cool environment. Both products are similar but dielectric grease helps stop moisture ,
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 11th 2011, 2:45pm

WoodButcher wrote:
Dielectric grease? wouldn't thermal paste be better?




Yes it would. And it's what the GM parts department gives you if you buy an Ign Module from them.
A little plastic envelope of the white stuff. It's labeled
"Componente Disip Ador De Calor - Heche en EUA"

It's also in English and French.

If you're pals with the parts desk guy he'll give you one while you're there for something else.
The little envelope contains a blob for single use.


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » October 11th 2011, 3:42pm

WoodButcher wrote:Dielectric grease? wouldn't thermal paste be better?


Not trying to be disputive , just to provide a deeper understanding
dielectric grease has properties that are better guards against moisture , such conditions as rain , sleet , snow , splashing through puddles of water , temp changes etc.

Thermal paste is used on computer CPU for heat transfer , where moisture is not so much a concern

When this thread first appeared I confirmed this use of dielectric grease with both
GM dealerships and local auto electric repair shops

GM part # 12377900 , is what GM shops use ,
http://www.rmsautoparts.com/proddetail. ... d=12377900

and the auto electric repair shops I spoke with told me that they prefer the Motorcraft part XG3A,, or XG 3-A , as they feel it is better quality

The 2 products are nearly the same but actual thermal paste is not as good in dealing with moisture ,,,some folks will actually call dielectric grease to be thermal paste because of how similar they are

Contact your local auto electric repair shop and ask them what they use :)
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby WoodButcher [OP] » October 12th 2011, 4:14am

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Reminded me of a conversation I was involved in more than once on the PC tech sites I visit. A few years back I got into overclocking and water cooling. Made me laugh like hell because one guy to make a point used peanut butter. In a PC if you lap the CPU and heatsink both dead bang flat creamy peanut butter and thermal paste are within a degree or two of being equal.

I can see where dielectric grease would be preferable under the hood of my safari, my squirrels would be off the treadmill and licking the coil. Poor things would be electrocuted......
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 12th 2011, 7:57am

Phantom wrote:
Not trying to be disputive ...



Sure.

My three local GM service/parts places all use thermal conductive grease. It's white paste
in a little cellophane envelope. It comes with an ign module if you buy it from them.

I guess your GM dealers do something else.


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby T.Neff » October 12th 2011, 10:25am

WB-what color is your spark at the cap??.I too am fighting poor spark and replaced cap,rotor and coil and still have a yellow spark.
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » October 12th 2011, 11:14am

WoodButcher wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
Reminded me of a conversation I was involved in more than once on the PC tech sites I visit. A few years back I got into overclocking and water cooling. Made me laugh like hell because one guy to make a point used peanut butter. In a PC if you lap the CPU and heatsink both dead bang flat creamy peanut butter and thermal paste are within a degree or two of being equal.

.

Peanut butter??? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: was that guy cooking and drinking shrooms when he came up with that ? :lol: :lol: ..... will last about as long as an ice cube in the hot sun :lol: what a debate that must have been

on PC heat sinks I use Arctic Silver

the ign module does not produce the heat that a cpu does ,it was inside a dist housing for about 20 years , without a fan HEI with ign module in distributor began in 75

Lumpy wrote:
Sure.

My three local GM service/parts places all use thermal conductive grease. It's white paste
in a little cellophane envelope. It comes with an ign module if you buy it from them.

I guess your GM dealers do something else.

Lump


Yes they do use this GM part # 12377900
It also contains silicone



the white paste is what was originally used back in the 70''s and the cheapest thing for companies to give for free, it still works ,,it dissipates/melts sooner than dielectric ,over time, , better dielectric products are available today that guard against moisture and better at protection from
'Fretting corrosion' caused by vibration, science backs it up ,

If there is ANY facts that prove that it is not good to use it on ignition modules , I'd like to see , NOT opinions, but facts , it is so widely used today by most shops today that you'll not find any facts at all that would indicate not to use it on ignition modules .

Makes no difference to me what others use , the only time I am impressed is when there is scientifically supported data that shows one product is better than another .
As with many things there are good , better, and best categories ,, they all work , some have better attributes than others ,,, some people only want just good enough to get by with and some want the very best ,

I live in a large metropolitan area where there is a lot of competition , literally dozens of GM dealerships ,,,there be at least a couple/few hundred auto repair shops all combined ; in the yellow pages of phone book it is about 30 pages of auto repair places,
shops around here only get one chance to satisfy a customer so they use the best product they can ,,if they get a return come back with a defect problem , they lose a customer
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 12th 2011, 4:55pm

Thanks for your thoughts, Phantom.

Whatever.


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » October 12th 2011, 6:13pm

Try calling a GM dealer and tell them that you want to buy thermal paste , tell them you want to buy a tube of thermal paste and ask them to give you a part number .

Tell them you don't want to buy a module , that you only want the thermal paste part number and cost. ,,,
Last edited by Phantom on October 12th 2011, 11:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 12th 2011, 11:00pm

I refuse to go around with you Phantom.

Three local GM dealers I deal with use/give/sell/recommend white thermal paste in a cellophane envelope.
Yours may be different.

Thanks for your comments.


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » October 12th 2011, 11:05pm

No problem , not a matter to go around about ,,
just simply saying that if they will sell it they will have a part number of just a paste by itself without a module ,,


1993 Taurus/Sable Table of Contents
Group 03: ENGINE»
Section 03-07B: Electronic Ignition (EI) System»
REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION»
Ignition Control Module (ICM)

Removal
1. Disconnect battery ground cable.
2. Disconnect both electrical connectors at ICM assembly by pressing down on locking tabs where it is stamped PUSH and remove connector.
3. Remove ICM retaining bolts and remove module.

Installation
1. Apply an even coat of approximately 0.80mm (1/32 inch), of Silicone Dielectric Compound WA-10, D7AZ-19A331-A (ESE-M1C171-A) or equivalent to mounting surface of ICM. Install ICM and retaining bolts. Tighten bolts to 2.5-3.5 N-m (22-31 lb-in).



Dielectric Compound (Motorcraft XG-3A). Previously it was referred to as "Ford ESFM-99E123-A Thermo-Grease", and then "Silicone Dielectric Compound WA-10; ESE-M1C171-A
(Ford p/n D7AZ-19A331-A).

http://www.counterman.com/Article/37103 ... ystem.aspx

some people just have a misunderstanding about what the stuff is , they both work , but the trend has gone to Silicone Dielectric Compound , just the way of progress
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 13th 2011, 2:23am

Got it.

Your Ford dealer uses dielectric grease.

My GM dealer uses arctic white thermal compound. Just like the computer geeks use.

Got it.
Got it.
Got it.

By golly, I've got it.


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Phantom » October 13th 2011, 2:39am

You still have no part number from your GM dealer ??

GM part # 12377900 is what they will give you if you ask for the part number, really that is a fact

The point of showing the Ford specs is to show that Dielectric Compound is in fact used by oem car makers and is on the ASE certification test for techs

glad to see you are so accepting of the facts

True computer geeks use Arctic Silver
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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby Lumpy » October 13th 2011, 3:11am

Phantom wrote:
You still ...



Once again...Whatever


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Re: coil and ignition module

Postby WoodButcher [OP] » October 13th 2011, 4:48am

T.Neff wrote:WB-what color is your spark at the cap??.I too am fighting poor spark and replaced cap, rotor and coil and still have a yellow spark.


I don’t recall, 5-6 years ago I had the problem smelled gas so went looking for spark. Took sandpaper to the rotor and cap, she started so a tuneup became the ritual. After reading here and the other site I thought I would try for the cure. This year the tune up got a coil and dist,http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/detail.aspx?Item=6671-BK but a few weeks ago after 11” of rain the nostartitis popped up again, WD40 sprayed on the coil and ign module she started right up so I suspect the midrange autozone coil I got but figure the ign module is the real culprit. After reading here I think I’d like to try the higher output coil like MSD or Accell so while I’m doing the module I’ll swap the coil again too.
It will be the first time since this spring I’ve had the doghouse open so I’ll get to look under my cap too so if it’s fouled we’ll see if the guy backs his 5 year warranty.
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