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Took off charger "crocodile" while engine working...

3K views 22 replies 7 participants last post by  slavasz 
#1 ·
Hi! Guys,
I have a puzzle:
My friend's cargo van (2000 GMC Safari RWD) had a problem with fuel pump. Apparently it was just a problem with the connector (the one under, on the area behind driver's seat). Central pin would just sleep out.
Here is what happened last:
battery was dead, connected charger,
connected central pin,
started engine, it runs, hurrah!
got out, went to the front to disconnect charger to drive "Blue Van" to proudly demonstrate the fix to my friend The Farmer who was weeding with his hands in the fields. Once I took the "crocodile" off the battery, engine stopped. Since then with or without charger: relay works, pump primes, starter cranks, disconnected battery, waited, connected again, but engine doesn't start.
Any ideas?
 
#3 ·
Why was battery in need of charge originally? That's my clue.

Check:

Battery condition

Battery terminals

Ground connection(s)

Farmer's weeds to verify they're not on the endangered or invasive species list, thereby requiring consult from EPA or Homeland Security.

Lump
 
#4 ·
Battery was very low, because the van stalled in the middle of the road, then my friend, my son and I cranked it many times. It's not a strong battery, leaving one of the internal lights on or ignition drains it quickly.
I am thinking since the way engine stopped when I disconnected charger (big old heavy "Mastercraft" with manual controls for current) must be something with ignition (maybe power surge due to induction of charger). VCM seems to be working, all fuses are good, could it be ICM?
Those weeds :screaming: are real pain for his small farm, so my family helps him as much as we can with weeding and repairs of his machinery (I replaced brake lines of this van).
 
#5 ·
You keep describing a lot of bad battery or connection symptoms. You keep looking for a more elaborate cause. If your ICM, ECM, BCM, BMD, BSA, UPS, IPA, MSG or anything else is wonky, you still have to address the bad battery/connection problem. If your LSMFT, LAPD, APU, ASU, BLM or CPR aren't wonky, the battery/connection problem might be all you need to address.

No matter what, you need the basics.

When you hear hoofbeats, don't think zebras.

Lump
 
#6 ·
I checked battery connections, fuses and relays (made sure fuel pump gets power). All light and gauges work well.
He did have a problem with distributor's cap, having moisture getting in it. But I can't blame on it engine stopping when I disconnected charger.
 
#7 ·
Oh, No ! I was just hand weeding in the front bed today...Guess I can expect a visit from the man in black.

Sounds like bad battery if it "doesn't take long to discharge if the ignition is left on." I would charge it up,

with the batt cables OFF the battery, then do a battery stress test. LAPS usually are equipped to do this.

How old is the batt ? and how much has it been mistreated ? The battery is the heart of the electrical

system, and when it runs out of volts/amps there are other components that just resist working correctly.

That battery, I would imagine is past due...fresh one will probably make all the other symtoms go away.

BTDT !

Uncle Bob
 
#8 ·
I really don't understand how battery can be a problem when van ran well before last incident. It was down when I replaced brake line, charged it and van was running fine.
Van wouldn't start a couple times, wiggling connector underneath driver's seat made it run again.
With battery charged, this time and as all the times before, starter cranks well and gauge shows 13~V.
 
#9 ·
Volts ain't amps. You need to do a test for amps to either call it a go or no go.

Been thru this too many times w/my daughter's van.

Uncle Bob
 
#11 ·
You got issues with the battery and/or charging circuit. If the van runs with the charger connected and dies immediately with it disconnected then there's likely something going on with the alternator. Either way bring that battery and/or alternator out to the part store to get it tested for free and go from there.
 
#12 ·
Thanks guys, the van cranks well, but does not start with or without charger. It seems like you guys are missing the point: van used to crank and run but now only cranks and doesn't run now. And it happened - engine stopped when I took charger off the battery. So, the situation now the van cranks well with or without charger, but no ignition.
Imagine you stopped to help someone, you use cables to boost someone's car, that car cranks and starts, while that car running you take your booster cables off and the other car stops. Now you put the cables back on, that car now cranks but doesn't start anymore. You even charged that car's battery, but it doesn't start anymore with or without boosting.
 
#13 ·
Dumb question...Have you tried starting fluid down the intake ?

Could be another component gone bad just that quick, but I'm still

leery of the batt. Hard to say from afar. Could you hold the phone

a bit closer ? (Ha !)

Uncle Bob
 
#14 ·
Not a dumb question :) No, I have not because no fluid and/or time. I have not checked spark on spark plugs either for the similar reason - no tools and/or time. The van is at farm, not in my garage. (While I was typing it, I am told that my Mazda MPV leaked antifreeze all over driveway, went to look at it... yep it's still dripping, like I needed it now...)
 
#15 ·
Ok, so first try this.

Give the MPV. To the farmer, let the antifreeze drip... Just add some concentrated "round up" to the cooling system... Have him park it over the weeds...

;)

Next, on YOUR new van....

Looks like some pretty severe corrosion in that connector. The original problem is likely a good clue to your "new" problem. (Good job finding that BTW, most folks would have swapped out the fuel pump before they found that)....

Finding that problem likely means you effectively troubleshot the no-fuel issue. I assume you noticed the pump was not coming on when you turned the key, and then read the wires for voltage as close to the source as you could?

I think you are going to need to apply those same skills to this. Sorry man, but you are going to have to pull a plug and see if you have spark.

Spark? Well, next try some starting fluid. If it starts but runs and dies you have a fuel problem still...

Pull the doghouse, or lay on the ground... Your choice.

Maybe you just skip the spark test and try the starting fluid, if it starts you know you have spark....

You will be much happier with the Astro/Safari then the MPV anyway... :)

Good luck!
 
#17 ·
I have seen this alot on cars. Everything works but won't start unless it has a charger or a jump. Battery is bad or bad connection. Dirty post corrosion on a wire to block. Or a wiring plug in the harness.
Don't say it isn't this. Because then you never will find it because you refuse to have a open mind and look at everything. Start by testing the battery and charging circuit and work your way to smaller systems.
It is electrical, nothing is easy there. There is no rational thought to find it. You just start at the beginning and work your way till you test everything and find it.
 
#18 ·
Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate it!
First of all, Mazda MPV fixed :) it was leaking between the two parts of water pump. I could reach 5 bolts out of 6 and 3 of them I could tighten, turning wrench 5°~15°. No more leaking, Hallelujah!
Secondly, I went to farm taking my friend home:
Battery is almost dead, boost, no success. Exhaust smeels of gas. I didn't have much time.
But, I don't like the sound of the pump and the fact that battery discharged almost overnight.
So, thanks again for the input. I have to arrange my tools and devote my Sunday to check all electrical stuff.
 
#20 ·
Someone at work with fleet of Safaris suggested that it might be safety lock up which can be reset by disconnecting battery for more that half an hour.Tomorrow I will check that and follow through with all the advices received here.
Apparently Mazda's water pump was leaking from its shaft. Had to change it. Pump CAD$102, antifreeze CAD$17, satisfaction from job done myself - priceless :D :D :D "
 
#22 ·
Lol, reading this , I just had to sign up, just so I can reply I have the same 2000 GMC Safari passenger van been a nightmare from day one I bought it off of the idiot who sold it to me last year. Have replaced, Fuel pump, Blower motor Resistor, Clusters, All Neutral switches, Radiator, Heater control Valve, Thermostat, Lock switch and latch , Sway bars link, Micro Belt, Monro - Matic, Hydro booster master cylinder, Door handle, Distributor cap and the rotor, Rapid fire, Ignition wire set, Starter, Breaks, Tires … just kept on and on, had to disconnect after market starter, key, then later a crack in the engine, so I just bought a new engine May 2014 now it's not holding a charge, so I replaced the alternator, tested my core, and it passed, Still not holding Charge, took battery out, Battery dated 4/2012 , tested it fine, so put it back and still the same, I at the point to hunt this person down and take the ride he driving now. Soooo in reading your posts, wondered, if you resolve your issues? I put a separate post on my issues, I problem now have to check my wires, for corrosion…. Never ending GM issues!
 
#23 ·
Update:
My friend's mechanic was kind enough to come and check. He sprayed starter fluid and engine started.
So, his diagnosis insufficient pressure from fuel pump which needs to be replaced along with fuel filter.

I got the filter and will change it this Sunday. I will try to start the engine to see if it helped.
 
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