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stalling in cold, snowy conditions - electrical, me thinks

3K views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  Asteroid04 
#1 ·
We've had an issue with our '02 AWD Astro, 140K mi., occasionally stalling out while driving in cold, snowy conditions. This has happened 5 times over the past 2 winters. Normal, almost daily, driving is not a problem 99% of the time. The fuel pump had been replaced just before we bought the van in early '08. New distributor 2012, new MSD ignition coil last winter after this problem first started.

First time this happened, last winter, we drove about an hour on a rural highway in the early evening, temperature in the teens or colder & lots of snow on the roads & lots of blowing snow. Stopped for an hour or so and 5 miles down the road on our return trip the van sputtered and died. Would crank, but not start. About 20 minutes later it started up, ran crappy for several miles, then quit again. Started back up several minutes later ran well enough to get us back home. Ran fine the next day and for several weeks afterward.
Next time it happened, several weeks later, i had driven 15 minutes on the highway to work in the morning, again cold & snowy, a minute or so after getting off the highway, it stalled out. I got it into a parking lot, walked to work, went back that afternoon & it started up & ran fine.
Next time, I left the house for work in the morning, again cold & snowy, got less than 2 miles from home before making it to the highway, it quit. I walked home, called work, got back to the van with another car, it started up & ran fine. This was the only time, of the 5 occurrences, that this happened before it had been driven for at least 15 minutes on a highway.

For the rest of last winter & all spring, summer & fall, it ran fine.

This is an almost daily driver in any type of weather. A couple months ago we drove through a nasty blizzrd to New Hampshire, normally a 5 1/2 hour trip that took us 10 hours because of other vehicles disabled by road conditions & blocking traffic. The van ran fine the entire trip, as it does most of the time.

Last week, on the way home from work (15 minute highway ride), again cold & snowy, a minute or so after getting off the highway, it stalled out. I walked home, got back to it with another car (so, about 30 minutes later) it started up & ran fine.
Today, same thing a minute or so off the highway, it stalled out. I waited 20 minutes for the "Retained Accessory
Power" interval to end, it started right up & got me home.

The common denominator here is cold, snowy weather, when i'm thinking blowing snow is getting up into some wiring (to fuel pump maybe?) and shorting something out. Twenty minutes later it always starts back up & runs fine for days or weeks at a time.

Anybody experience these same symptoms or have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
 
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#3 ·
chevymaher said:
Check your crank sensor. People have reported similar problems in rain with that being the problem. Pull the plug see if it nasty in there. Get a code reader see if anything shows up.
+1
exact problems i had...
replaced crank position sensor....ran like new again

10 min job
 
#4 ·
chevymaher said:
Check your crank sensor ... Get a code reader see if anything shows up.
no codes being set
mrblack said:
exact problems i had ... replaced crank position sensor....ran like new again
will do & report back...

Tonight i took out the crank sensor, cleaned it and the pigtail connector up (brake cleaner)
and coated the base of the sensor (between the o-ring & where the bracket wraps around the sensor) & the back end of the wiring harness with dielectric grease.
Hopefully this will keep the moisture out.
I'm thinking that if the sensor needed replacing, it would fail more often or randomly or through a code.

That's s funky little bolt/anchor fastener that holds the bracket in! I freed up the threads & slid the nut (?) further towards the tip of the bolt before sliding it all back in before tightening. I'm not sure that fastener was holding the sensor in there as securely as it should have.

A new AC Delco 213-3208 is $44.59 @ Amazon, but i'll wait it out a bit and see if the clean-up & resecuring fixes the issue...

Thank you, as always :rockon:
 
#5 ·
visitor said:
...took out the crank sensor, cleaned it and the pigtail connector up
well, that didn't work :violin:
i'll put a new sensor in tomorrow
 
#6 ·
so, i'm very curious, how would you (or any else) determine that the crank sensor was the issue here if no codes are being thrown?

this happened here 3 times in the last week & 1/2, each time after driving ~ 15 minutes on the highway after work, getting off the exit (1 light at the off ramp), stopping & then through the next light in traffic and then crapping out, within 2 minutes after getting off the highway - exact scenario all 3 times.

made it home tonight o.k. with a new sensor. the next week or two should determine whether that was actually the specific problem... i really don't want that Trooper that pushed me off into a parking lot Monday night to find me stalled out in traffic again :law-policered: though i hafta say he was very cool about the whole thing & very helpful
 
#7 ·
The ignition coil's are notorious for arcing out when moist and giving you the crank/ no start issue... quick test for the coil is to use a spray bottle with water on mist setting and spray a lite mist around the coil area... do it in a dark garage or at night and look for spark jumping... most common place is at the base of the coil wire stem on the coil. Hope this helps...
 
#8 ·
kennysmoke said:
The ignition coil's are notorious for arcing out when moist and giving you the crank/ no start issue...
When we first had this issue, last winter, i replaced the coil with an Accel (crap) and then an MSD coil, which i expect to still be good...
 
#9 ·
When we first had this issue, last winter, i replaced the coil with an Accel (crap) and then an MSD coil, which i expect to still be good..
I've had coils fail in less than a couple of weeks or be bad right out of the box, I only use AC Delco... these vans are very fussy when it comes to ignition parts... just because you changed it awhile ago doesn't mean it's still good...
 
#10 ·
I'm not saying it's your issue, but you should always troubleshoot as if no part has been replaced, starting with basic stuff first... I've had the same symptoms as you a few times and turned out to be coil most times and cracked distributor cap as well...
 
#11 ·
thought this was sorted out, but this morning, and for the first time since (driven daily, until yesterday) replacing the crank sensor it won't start.
To clarify, i replaced the crank sensor, drove back & forth to work every day since with no issues. It sat unused all day Saturday & Sunday and now, Monday morning, no start in the driveway. :banghead:
For the first time while this symptom is manifesting itself, i was able to hook a timing light up to one of the plug wires while cranking and it is firing,
so i'm thinking fuel pump...

?

:shrug:
 
#12 ·
Ahh, yes I would have though the CPS as well, got me once in a Michigan snow storm. Didn't show up as a code until I cranked the ever living crap out of it, but as you have replaced that already...

First check plugs/wires, dist cap/rotor/gear play, spray it down with water and see if you have any arching. Then check the fuel pressure, it's a lot easier and cheaper than just replacing the pump, which most of the time if you can hear it running it's working just fine.
 
#13 ·
kennysmoke said:
The ignition coil's are notorious for arcing out...
sure enough, the ignition coil was arching where i tried to represent with a blue flash in the attached image.

Is there another faulty part of the ignition system that would tend to cause the coil to arch here?

Anyways, i learned that just because my timing light is reading some spark through a plug wire doesn't mean there isn't an ignition electrical issue somewhere else.
 

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#15 ·
visitor said:
Is there another faulty part of the ignition system that would tend to cause the coil to arch here?
Let's see dirt/grease/oil/carbon, air bubble/hole/crack, bad wire/connection, worn cap/rotor/gear, plug gap too wide.

The electricity is taking the path of least resistance, so if there is higher resistance in the ROTOR/CAP/WIRES/PLUGS it's going to try and go elsewhere.

So, before you waste more of your time and money, check/change/clean those plugs/wires/cap/rotor/gear :)
 
#16 ·
looks like it's been 3 years since i've replaced plug wires, doesn't seem that long...
i'll do them & plugs next

:handgestures-thumbup:
 
#17 ·
We just put this Astro back on the road, with new ACDelco iridium spark plugs and 8mm MSD plug wires, and find that new MSD & Accel coils both arch at this same point,
but a new ACDelco coil ($25 @ Amazon.com) does not appear to.
The ACDelco coils and most (if not all) of the brands listed @ RockAuto have a "bridge" built onto the coil at this point (highlighted in blue dashes on the attached pic).
This doesn't necessarily mean our problem has been fixed, but there's no visible spark there now. I don't know if that "bridge" is carrying or blocking electricity or if it is directly addressing our stalling issue, but I thought it might be of interest to others who've notice this arching going on at the coil...
 

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#18 ·
My '04 started giving me hard starting fits when it got super cold in winter. It would warm up outside and it was fine. I dove into it one day and found the coil was badly corroded where it mounted. Being that it is a significant p.i.t.a. to get to it, I simply replaced the coil, and the ignition module since they are roommates, no problems since then. About two years ago.
 
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