[87astro]

ran good through out rpm range had slight miss/rough idle determined that egr valve was not working so I replaced it and the egr valve solonoid now it is running 100% worse , not even drivable any more surges and then dies so much that the brakes can't even hold it from surging forward need help as I've never installed new parts and made thing worse . should I put the old stuff back on atleast maybe it would run again

 

[gtkane]

Three things to consider here.
If it is an aftermarket EGR, they come ready for a number of applications. Did it have a bag with 3 or 4 washers in it? The correct "washer" has to be installed on the bottom of the EGR. This gives it the proper oriface size.
When you replaced the solenoid, did you put the vac hose on the correct port? I believe it should be on the lower one. The other one is a vent.
Did you put the gasket on correctly? Installing it upside down will give you a major vac leak(and all the symptoms you described).

 

[87astro]

yes the egr is after market it came with no washers but the old one didnt have any either? the new gasket only fit one way ,the round hole bottom and the square hole up top it fit nice and snug no leaks and yes on the correct port made sure of that I even trien unpluging the vaccum from it and still the same results. would it do this if the cat is clogged? I think mine might be

 

[87astro]

well I cut the cat off this morning and disconnected the battery for about 15 minutes and now its running like it was before so I guess that was part of the problem. but now after i turn it off white smoke comes out of the throttle body what is that from? I think its getting too much fuel. could the fuel pressure regulator be leaking back into the tbi instead of bleeding off the return line?
also what knid of spray pattern should I be looking for from the injectors? at idle it kind of dribbles in the middle with a light cone spray then when reved it has a stream in the middle and a full cone.

 

[zombie{[six]}]

you have a bad injector. They should both be 'coning'

 

[astro355]

}":1afqsw19]you have a bad injector. They should both be 'coning'

Yes, definitely sounds like you need to at least clean the injectors, if not replace them. I would also looking into giving it a tune up, especially if you don't know the history of the vehicle or the last time it had a tuneup.

I guess I'm curious as to why you thought you needed to replace the EGR.

 

[87astro]

its running again but keeps throwing rich exhaust code 45 idle still sucks somethimes when I shut it off white smoke comes out of the throttlebody any ideas? I've changed the o2 sensor and checked the charcol canstier like it says in the hayes manual

 

[astro355]

its running again but keeps throwing rich exhaust code 45 idle still sucks somethimes when I shut it off white smoke comes out of the throttlebody any ideas? I've changed the o2 sensor and checked the charcol canstier like it says in the hayes manual

Have you at least tried to clean the injectors?

 

[87astro]

ok guys think I found the problem but not sure I pulled the injectors and they look good almost new but the piece that has the fuel regulator on it was covered inside and out a 1/4 thick in carbon crap now my question is I have the fuel pressure regulator rebuild kit with the gaskets and diaphragm got it taken all apart and what has me confused is the housing the part that sits on the fuel metering block/the thing the spring sits on and is inside is that suppose to move up and down? I have mine soaking in carb cleaner and it wont budge and no parts stores have them so I might have to go to the junk yard to take a look at another one

so what I "think" the problem was is that the fuel pressure regulator was not even close to working/frozen solid so the fuel pump kept pumping and built up too much pressure for the injectors to hold back causing the stream in the middle as well as a cone mist when theres no stream or dripping suppose to be i the middle
Does that sound like a possible diagnosis ??? or would that not even come close to happening because of the constant bleed off I read about in the hayes manuel

also what exactly flow in the hole in the fuel metering block that the fuel pressure regulator housing sits in? vacuum? fuel? is that where the fuel in line comes in?

 

[astro355]

No, you should not be able to move it by hand. If the regulator was stuck or frozen, your van would not have run at all. Did you put a fuel pressure gauge on it?

Just because the injectors 'look' new, that does not mean they are not defective or dirty. What I would recommend is to put it all back together and do some testing. Then let us know what happened. Right now, I am curious about the current fuel pressure.

 

[87astro]

well how do I clean the injectors with them in or out I don't know umm I don't see how the diaphragm was even working at all so replacing it can't be bad the thing crumbled in my hand and all contact points were covered in thick carbon I will put it back together first thing in the morning and try to get a fuel gauge on it maybe the injectors are just bad I hope not at $176 a piece and I don't know what it is about florida but no one stocks any parts has to be ordered in anyways thanx for ur help Ill try again in the morning

 

[astro355]

Pictures would also be helpful.

 

[zombie{[six]}]

run some fuel system/injector cleaner through the gas tank.

 

[87astro]

well I put it back together and ran some fuel injector cleaner through it so I let it run for about 15 to 20 min. then it just died tried starting it up nothing so I pulled the coil wire off and checked for spark had nothing so I replaced the module in the distributor and it fired right back up . kind of weird it just went out like that but any ways the fuel injector cleaner was doing it job and the injectors were spraying much better before it died . when I got it back running again with the new module the drivers side injector went to crap was leaking fuel with the key on spitting dripping everything wrong so I don't know how or why it went bad when it was just working great any ways decided it wouldn't be a bad idea to rebuild the whole tbi so got the kit and pulled it off the intake manifold cleaned it a lot of the vacuum passages where completely blocked off with carbon and definitely need some attention so put it all back together and replaced the one injector and....THE problem is still there don't get me wrong it runs much better and sounds better and feels stronger and can even hold idle now in park and n drive but still seems like its missing or just not quite right

the local parts guy has been letting me borrow parts and bring them back if they don't fix the problem tried tps no change even tried ecm no change but had to use my old chips do they go bad? thinking about trying the IAC tomorrow

they want 40 bucks for fuel pressure gauge haven't got that yet mainly because it seems its getting too much fuel and loading up when it idles so how can I lean it out ? there was a site I found that showed how to modify the fuel pressure regulator to be adjustable would that work?

tried to get video and sound of it running but my phone and camera can't pick up good sound its all muffled

I just want to drive this thing not work on it :swerve:

 

[Matrixx]

Hi 87astro
In your first post, you said it had a "slight" miss through rpm range. After replacing the EGR valve, you said it ran 100% percent "worse". Are you "absolutely certain" you put the correct egr valve in? Did you measure pintal length and diameter from your oem unit you pulled out with the after market one you put in?

Was there anything else you touched while removing the egr (vacuum lines)? How about re-installing the old egr to see if there is any change? At this point what have you got to loose? Just a thought. Please keep us updated, thanks.

 

[87astro]

yea its the same I checked , I thought about reinstalling the old one but since I got it back running to pre installing the new stuff condition I don't want it to get worse the old one was not working it was getting no vacuum even when reved I think the diaphragm had a tiny hole or the egr solenoid switch was clogged so I replaced both I will check again tomorrow just to triple check I'm running out of ideas

I think it started running worse with a working egr because all the vacuum passages in the tbi were clogged now after i rebuilt it they are open and back to how it was running I guess :shrug:

 

[astro355]

I need to take a deep breath before I get started. I just hate it when anyone becomes a parts changer and doesn't try to figure out the problem. It always wastes your time and you may never find out what the real problem. And in some cases, you can actually make it worse. I'm not trying to alienate you from this website and if you do end up getting upset by my words, please get mad at me, not this site. I'm trying to get you to slow down a minute, think about the problem logically and then solve it.

That out of the way, you need four things to make an engine work:
-air
-fuel
-spark
-compression

There is absolutely no reason to do anything else until you have verified those things. Meaning you would have to check spark at all 6 cylinders, preferably with a spark tester. Compression would also have to be checked at all 6 cylinders with a compression tester. You will have to test the fuel pressure, no way around it. Now since you replaced one injector, you really should replace the other. Even though you think it works, a worn injector will not work evenly with a new one. Luckily, you really don't need to check air. One thing I always do to check for vacuum leaks is to, with the motor running, take both hands and cover up the intake on the throttle body and see how the motor reacts to it.

Once you have done those basic tests, that would at least point you in the right direction.

 

[87astro]

compression checked 180psi give or take a little lower or higher guage dosen't have exact numbers on all cylinders

fuel pressure checked 11psi

have to order in a spark tester parts places around here suck

any other ideas?

also I noticed in the hayes manuel its calls for R43cts plugs for 85-92 .the ones I orginally pulled out when I got the van were R43ts is there a difference? I had the guy at the parts store check and he said no but had to cross refrence the R43cts to find the part , but when you normally look up 87 astro he said it calls for the plugs I got (R43ts) so I think I'm good on those.

 

[astro355]

So you reinstalled the stock regulator or a new one?

Did you replace the other fuel injector?

 

[87astro]

just got done testing the spark at all cylinders is good..also has strong vacuum when I cup my hand over the throttle body like you described. I installed a new diaphram in the regulator same spring and same housing .Haven't replaced the other injector yet they have to order it in plus its another $65 what else could it be if its not the injector I really can't see it being the problem can I test the ohms for resistance and se how worn it is? it sprays just like the new one and I can feel the injectors firing at the same rate?

whats next?