[MavMark]

I have a 1995 Safari that needs a new transmission. I have a 4L60E from a '96 S-10 that I would like to swap into my van. I have been told that this swap has been done before, with the main issue being the VSS in the tail housing being different. Looking at the two transmissions, the most obvious differences are the bellhousing ('96 is one piece and is removeable and the '95 is two pieces and is not) and the tail housing ('95 is 4 bolt and '96 is 6 bolt). The overall length of the two seems to be about the same. From what I understand, both of these transmissions use PWM for the TCC, so that should not be an issue. I've also been told that the solenoids *may* have a differents resistance/impedance, but that they should still work. The main harness plug is the same between the two.

Does anyone have any insight into this swap? Does the different bellhousing make any difference? I guess the electronics is where I've gotten the most conflicting info out on the 'net...I've seen comments that basically say there's no way in hell it will work, and others that say it will work fine. Does anybody here know?

Thanks!

 

[skippy]

I have a 95 with a bad tranny also , Its a 95 4l60E ONLY!!!! no other years will fit ! 95 is a crossover year the valve body is different than the 96 & up trannys & the electrics make it different than the 700R4 trannys. So I know what your going through . :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Its gonna cost me anywhere from $800 to $1600 to get mine fixed depending on whats wrong .

According to car-part these are the transmissions that are compatible amongst the different years.

2.5L Manual Saginaw 4 speed
85-86

2.5L Manual Borg-Warner T4 4 speed
87-88?

2.5L Auto 700R4
84-87
87-93

4.3L Manual Borg Warner T5
85-88

4.3L Auto 700R4
85-87
87-88 Cable speedo
88-92 Electric speedo

4.3L Auto 4L60E
93-94 RWD
93-94 AWD
95 AWD
95 RWD
96-97 RWD
96-97 AWD
98 RWD
98-99 AWD
99 RWD
2000 RWD
2000 AWD
2001 RWD
2001 AWD
2002 RWD
2002 AWD
2003 RWD
2003 AWD
2004 RWD
2004 AWD
2005 RWD
2005 AWD

 

[MavMark]

I am gonna reply to my own topic so others may learn from my experiments...

The 1996 transmission DOES work. I didn't have to change the PCM, repin the main connector or anything like that. Here are the changes you would need to do to make this swap:

Most importantly, the tranny in your van MUST have "PWM" stamped on the pump cover to match the donor tranny (and it should). The only way to know is to drop the tranny and take out the torque converter. "PWM" stands for Pulse Width Modulation and GM phased it in for torque converter clutch (TCC) lockup around 1995. Non-PWM trannies are not compatible with PWM ones.

If the donor tranny has an external neutral safety switch (the big black thing over the gear shift lever on the driver's side of the tranny), you will need to swap out the lever because it will be too long. This is done fairly easily by dropping the pan.

While you have the pan off, swap the 3-2 downshift solenoid. There are two solenoids on the front passenger side of the valve body. If memory serves, the one to switch is closest to the driver's side. The one in the '95 tranny is different from the one in the '96 and if you don't swap them, it'll still work, but you'll get some weird downshifting behavior. Not sure if this will lead to some early failure or not.

Cut the connector off the speed sensor from the van(on the driver's side of the tailshaft) and splice in its place the one from the '96 tranny (it will be on the passenger side). The wire colors should match. I was lucky, my donor tranny had the connector still attached. I'm sure you could get this connector from Rock Auto or a GM dealer if you don't have it. If you don't connect this, the tranny won't upshift and you won't have a speedo.

The cooler lines are different, so you will have to get adapters to make the original ones fit. I didn't do this part, so I don't know what kind of adapters are needed.

The leaf springy looking thing at the back of the tailshaft from the '95 tranny won't fit on the '96. This is for vibration reduction, so it is a nice-to-have, but not a show stopper.

I've only been driving the van for a day after the swap, so I can't say if there are long term problems, but so far it works fine.

 

[Big_kid]

EXCELLENT post!!! Thanks for the followup! I too have a 95, and will definitely keep this in mind should I ever have to swap a tranny. :clap:

 

[Matrixx]

Hi MavMark
Thanks for the update. Great information, Thanks.

 

[MavMark]

I know this info might help someone someday...I got so so many confilicting stories on whether this swap would work or not.

I need to add one other thing...the 3-2 solenoid swap is a little trickier than I first posted. GM "idiot-proofed" the connector for the soldnoid so you can't accidentally plug it into the wrong solenoid. You have two options: you can either either remove the entire internal wiring harness from the '95 tranny and put it into the '96 (rather involved), or you can do what I did: cut the connector from the '95 and splice it into the '96 tranny. In my case, the wire colors were the same and I just matched them up, soldering them with heat shrink tube over the top.

Although this info is only verified between my '95 and the '96 transmission, it looks like it *should* work with 1997 4L60E's as well. Not sure beyond that though.

 

[astro355]

:goodpost:
You didn't happen to take any pictures, did you?

 

[MavMark]

I happened to find my own post in a Google search about neutral safety switch wiring...so I am going to add to it.

[No...I didn't take any pictures...I was desperate to get the van running again and it never came to mind...]

A few days after I did this tranny swap, the "new" transmission failed again. It was NOT due to anything related to the swap, but was instead just a crappy used transmission. I was able to exchange it for a different low-mile transmission, still from a '96 S-10. This time around after I dropped the pan I was unable to swap out the 3-2 downshift solenoid because the connector was put on in such a way that I would have had to drop the valve body, and I was simply running out of time dealing with this problem over the course of a few weeks. I decided to try running it this way (with the '95 PCM controlling the '96 3-2 solenoid in the trans)...and believe it or not it worked!

I've now been driving the van daily since the end of January, including towing a pop-up and the transmission has performed flawlessly. I feel that the 3-2 downshifts are somewhat "abrupt", but it seems to work fine.

I've been told that running it this way could cause problems due to the different resistance/impedance of the solenoid, so I guess do it at your own risk...but if you are in a pinch, it will work.

Also, I discovered that the longer shifter input shaft worked fine too without having to take the trans apart and swap the shafts. The spring on the shifter linkage has to be compressed pretty far to get it to fit on the longer shaft, but in over half a year of use I've noticed no issues and the shifter feels fine.

Just wanted to add this in case anyone else goes down this path.

 

[webcat]

:goodpost:

 

[rev_les]

good job figuring all this out, it's handy info to have out there for everyone. :clap:

 

[h2omelon]

:goodpost:

 

[webcat]

I decided to try running it this way (with the '95 PCM controlling the '96 3-2 solenoid in the trans)...and believe it or not it worked!

So over time hows it working out for you using the '95 PCM controlling the '96 3-2 solenoid in the trans?
Just wondering because i have a simular project! Thanks

 

[MavMark]

So over time hows it working out for you using the '95 PCM controlling the '96 3-2 solenoid in the trans?
Just wondering because i have a simular project! Thanks

So far it hasn't seemed to hurt anything. From a slow roll, the 3-2 shift seems somewhat harsh or abrupt to me, kind of a "ker-chunk" feeling when the shift occurs. I didn't really pay close attention to the 3-2 shift when the original transmission was in there, so I don't know how different it is. I am pretty sure I read that the '97 3-2 solenoid operates differently than the '95, so that may be why the shift feels different. I've noticed no other shifting anomalies and overall I am very happy with the swap. I'd do it again if I had to.

 

[ShiftRite]

The 95 Valve Body has a different 3-2 Downshift valve line up, 3-2 Downshift Solenoid, and Seperator Plate, compared to the 96-UP. The last three on the VB casting is 393 (93-95), and for 96 97 98 it is 537 and some others, Best way is to interchange the 96 to work for a 95 would be, Use the 95 Valve body, harness, Seperator plate, 3-2 Solenoid, on the 96 Transmisson, or vise versa. I always reccomend new accumulator pistions, sonnax TCC Regulator Valve, and TransGO Seperator Plates, since the one checkball wears the plate badly after about 100 K or so. They have 3 types available to replace all 4L60E plates, 93-94, 95, 96-UP. Hope that helps,

Brett
[email protected]

 

[webcat]

You got that right it helps !! Thank You!!!!!! Thank You!!!!!! Thank You!!!!!!

 

[webcat]

The 95 Valve Body has a different 3-2 Downshift valve line up, 3-2 Downshift Solenoid, and Seperator Plate, compared to the 96-UP. The last three on the VB casting is 393 (93-95), and for 96 97 98 it is 537 and some others, Best way is to interchange the 96 to work for a 95 would be, Use the 95 Valve body, harness, Seperator plate, 3-2 Solenoid, on the 96 Transmisson, or vise versa. I always reccomend new accumulator pistions, sonnax TCC Regulator Valve, and TransGO Seperator Plates, since the one checkball wears the plate badly after about 100 K or so. They have 3 types available to replace all 4L60E plates, 93-94, 95, 96-UP. Hope that helps,

Brett
[email protected]

I recently put the TBI , TBI wiring and PCM from a 1995 into my 1996 G10 van , i kept the 1996 4L60E trannee and i did'nt do any modifications to the trannee and have no shifting problems what so ever !
I dont know how that happened but i'm happy.

 

[Beyond Hope]

Hey Mavmark, how's that tranny swap working out? I have a 95 with a worn out transmission and need to do something with. Tired a used one from Pic a part and came home with a dud. Dumb tools drilled a hole in valve body to drain fluids! Anyhow I'm having a tough time finding a used 95 and have looked at your post many times wondering if one should try your route. Any feedback or update to your swap greatly appreciated!

 

[kennyj]

Hey Mavmark, how's that tranny swap working out? I have a 95 with a worn out transmission and need to do something with. Tired a used one from Pic a part and came home with a dud. Dumb tools drilled a hole in valve body to drain fluids! Anyhow I'm having a tough time finding a used 95 and have looked at your post many times wondering if one should try your route. Any feedback or update to your swap greatly appreciated!

Sounds like you got a tranny from a cash-for-clunkers vehicle. They're not even supposed to sell you those parts.

"The engine, transmission and some other parts must be destroyed so they can't be reused. The idea is to cull fuel-thirsty, polluting drivetrains. Operators can resell other parts, however."

 

[MavMark]

Hey Mavmark, how's that tranny swap working out? I have a 95 with a worn out transmission and need to do something with. Tired a used one from Pic a part and came home with a dud. Dumb tools drilled a hole in valve body to drain fluids! Anyhow I'm having a tough time finding a used 95 and have looked at your post many times wondering if one should try your route. Any feedback or update to your swap greatly appreciated!

Hi!

I've got about 20k miles on this transmission since the swap and it is still going strong. I still do occasionally get a weird downshift most likely since I've never swapped out that solenoid like I wanted to. I've towed my Coleman camper twice since the swap (using drive instead of overdrive) and have not had any problems.

I've had a fuel pump die (the original!) at 250k miles...but that is another story....

 

[MavMark]

Once again I ran into my own post and figured I'd post an update. It has been almost exactly 3 years and the transmission is still operating perfectly. I've had to change the exaust, the A/C compressor, the cap rotor and coil but the transmission has not failed. I'm at about 278k miles now...