[AWDWanderer]

I am looking at this rig for a friend. He has had it to a shop for an "alignment"... its in quotes because there is no evidence any adjustments have been made on ANY hardware, no witness marks. Another shop replaced some steering components that I am sure were sloppy. Looking at it myself, while the control arm (upper and lower) clearly has some aged and cracking bushings, everything is still VERY solid with a pry bar. Ball joints are tight. Testing the play in the steering with the van on the ground, I found the ONLY play in the system was in the gearbox itself. Rocking the wheel back and fourth, the wheels didn't move until the pitman arm moved. There is no play in the intermediate shaft u-joints, it is in the box... I replaced the gear for him and steering went from scary in town to only scary at higher speeds. I warrantied the gear box to try again because it is still the only place there is play, and it was a reman unit not known for being perfect. Ever so slightly better but still uncomfortable to drive at speed. Tires all meet original load ratings and are properly inflated.

Things done:
Loose steering components replaced
Alignment (done by a shop and ACTUALLY done by me)
New (reman) steering gear
Attempted the overcenter adjustment of the sector shaft. It snugged the steering feel up but didn't resolve any of the play, so it was just a bit harder to turn with some slop in the middle so it took a bit more effort to chase this thing down the street. Steering wheel still freely returned to center.

Are these vans just wanderers? With the way this is talked about, it seems like this is just how these are (especially the AWD vans)?

I am going to try adding a bit more caster to see if we can get it to steer itself less based on road input, its in spec right now, but the cross caster is like 1.5 degrees from factory. Thinking putting them both on the high end, maybe even putting the driver caster out of spec high (closer to the passenger). My friend is ready to buy a "new" steering gear, but I am just not convinced that will be an additional 5-600 dollars well spent and he will still not like how it drives.

Thanks in advance!
-AWDWanderer

 

[Bossman]

I am ready to replace the steering gear on mine as well. When I do, it will be from Red Head. Check them out.
Mine was super scary on the highway, especially in a cross wind. It will take a while for the upholstery man to get the pinch mark out of the driver's seat. All other components are tight and play-free. The only thing that helped was my alignment guy was able to get 5 degrees positive caster up from 3. It helped but still bad in a cross wind gust. Not as bad in a sweeping curve, when I'm holding the play out of it. A problem with that much positive caster is a harsher feel over bumps an chuck holes. Kinda like pushing a stick along. It wants to catch instead of glide over the holes now.
I tested the gear and got some play but not much. It must be too much, however.
I know Mmusicman went through replacing most all of the steering components only to find out that his gear was the issue. He said that replacing it solved the problem.
Mike

 

[CopperFiremist]

Add more caster and then fab up a steering stabilizer IIRC CargoCrawler did one. When I had my Van I replaced everything even put a Redhead box in it and it still had slop in the center. Good Luck

 

[Mmusicman]

I am going to try adding a bit more caster to see if we can get it to steer itself less based on road input, its in spec right now, but the cross caster is like 1.5 degrees from factory. Thinking putting them both on the high end, maybe even putting the driver caster out of spec high (closer to the passenger).

My 2000 wanders quite a bit.. I suspect combination of worn bushings and worn steering box.
My previous 2000 van did NOT wander.. and my 92 had issues but new box (and all steering components) resolved it. It's tight as a rock!

So with my 2000 AWD... I did EXACTLY as you propose. In fact, I set the caster as FAR as it would go (keeping toe and camber in correct alignment)... in the same attempt to force it more to center itself. It DID help. Better for cornering.. better for steering. My ride otherwise, was unaffected. Most modern cars seem to come with a LOT of positive caster, which I think is a good thing. There's no real down-side that I'm aware of.

PS: Not related to "positive castor" tuning.. but I put a Cardone Reman in my 92 and it worked great.
Maybe I just got lucky...
https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=119321

 

[AWDWanderer]

I really appreciate the input... from a lot of the same helpful guys I have read responses from on much of my searches. You are amazing, and I really appreciate the quick input. I'm off to head out to the PNW Heat in the shop to do the alignment. I had to go home yesterday, I'm packin around too much insulation to be rolling around under a van in 115 degree temps! Ill follow up later this evening or tomorrow with the results.

 

[CopperFiremist]

I know the feeling it was 120* in our shop yesterday before we called it. I am in the PNW if you need some Van Therapy. Also I know user TurnNburn has done a TON of Astro Alignments you might send him a PM.

 

[tungtide]

I just had a steering box rebuilt by Blue top. Red or Blue these guys do great work. The guy at blue top explained to me that the smallest of tolerances are what they deal with. Music got a good one from Cardone, but I would still recommend Red top for the west coast and Blue top for the east coasters.PS I haven't installed mine yet. Waiting on all the other front end parts.

 

[AWDWanderer]

Alignment done... 5 degrees of caster on both sides, almost no camber or toe. drove it around, up to 70mph and it feels WAY better. I added about 2 degrees of caster on the drivers side and 1 on the passenger side. It is really weird having the cross caster spec'd into this! Without the added caster, the van wonders around. Add in the play in the steering and you end up chasing it around and it is a miserable experience as you are reacting to where the van is taking itself. With the added caster, it did WAY better at going where I pointed it and required little to no wrangling of the van wandering around which covered up the little bit of play in the wheel being an annoyance.

My friend is going to pick it up in the morning and decide if he wants to keep it. I explained to him, that based on the visual inspection, we could replace the whole front end. All of the bushings cracking... but... it is all tight and doesn't budge with the pry bar, so I am stuck on feeling like we will get it together and be left with the same/similar driving feel. I cannot make myself do that. Especially with all the dozens and dozens of posts about loose steering seeing mention of whole front ends rebuilt and still wandering.

Ill do a follow up after he drives it and lets me know if he wants to keep it or not.

Thank you all again. You are all amazing. One of the best forum experiences I have had!

 

[Mmusicman]

Alignment done... 5 degrees of caster on both sides, almost no camber or toe. drove it around, up to 70mph and it feels WAY better...

EXCELLENT!
Glad to hear it worked for you, and I hope your customer is satisfied too.

It's become more common in modern vehicles.
What can I say.. it worked well for me too!

Here's what mine looks like in a hard turn (with lots of castor)...
Drives perfectly straight down the road, and handles superb in turns!
Cheers!

 

[Astro-Seed]

I came here looking for info on SOFT steering - I drive a 2007 Toyota PU and a 2019 Elantra but am complaining about my new2me 1999 (109500 mile one owner) AstroVan and mention the other vehicles as it may just be 'soft' relative to what I'm used to driving. Years ago I completely rebuilt the front steering and suspension on my old G20 Chevy van and teh difference was amazing. I took it into a shop and his advice was to look at the steering linkage bits as the van looked to be well maintained and he mentioned the rebuilt steering boxes and (I thought) newly manufactured units. I was told that this van sat for a number of years (likely moved about in the shop from time to time) and that affected the brakes (seemed to grab a bit when I first drove it home - nothing serious) and wondered if lack of attention or lubrication might have had some effect on the steering.

Question one: Were these AstroVans ever great handling vehicles?
Question two: What sort of tests might I conduct to get an idea of where to begin?