All new front end, recent alignment, van is so DARTY on the highway! Why?
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How recent is the recent alignment, and how old are the tires?
A common phenomena is tires that were on prior to an alignment have developed a wear pattern, and when aligned, even with everything in green, suddenly theres a pull or a steering wander as the wear pattern has changed angle.
If the tires predate the alignment by much, simple test is rotate front to back and see what it does then
A common phenomena is tires that were on prior to an alignment have developed a wear pattern, and when aligned, even with everything in green, suddenly theres a pull or a steering wander as the wear pattern has changed angle.
If the tires predate the alignment by much, simple test is rotate front to back and see what it does then
I mean it's extremely sensative. It does not wander at all, it is extremely tight/responsive.
The alignment was done 5 days before the video. The tires are 3 years old with less than 6k on them.
Is it common to have ZERO toe in/out on these vans? Thining about taking it back and asking for a bit of toe in to make it more stable
The alignment was done 5 days before the video. The tires are 3 years old with less than 6k on them.
Is it common to have ZERO toe in/out on these vans? Thining about taking it back and asking for a bit of toe in to make it more stable
No, it is NOT correct to have ZERO toe.
This would most certainly exasperate the problem.
I do mine myself.. 1/16" in (front of tire) and 1/16" out (rear of tire) total 1/8" toe-in
There is no exact perfect number (although there is a factory spec).. the more toe, the better the handling but at the sacrifice of tire wear. This is usually measured in angles.. but I only have the luxury of tape measurements... and my method seems about right when compared to actual alignment jobs.
I also cranked my caster positive about as far as it would go (more than spec).. while still keeping camber within spec. Modern cars typically also have a lot of positive castor. Castor is responsible for tracking, as well as leaning the tire into a turn. This made a notable improvement for me. I can't tell you the numbers since I did it myself.
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If the tires are 3 years old rotate them first to eliminate that as a possible contributing factor.
Even with less than 6k miles thats enough to develop patterns on especially a more aggressive tread tire.
Better to start with a blank slate before further diagnosis
Even with less than 6k miles thats enough to develop patterns on especially a more aggressive tread tire.
Better to start with a blank slate before further diagnosis
Hmmm. My numbers are almost exactly like yours.
I think maybe I'm just not used to how quick the ratio of this steering is. On my hondas and audis, if I'm at speed and I move the wheel an inch, it doesn't feel like it's going to flip over. Or maybe it does, but the steering is so much less boosted, that it takes more effort to turn. Idk, is there maybe a way to reduce the 'boosting' of the power steering?
Or maybe I'm just not used to the wheels being so close to me, with the driving position so far forward? It just doesn't feel comfortable at 75-80, sort of requires constant attention because it feels darty. There is like no slop tho.... again.... I could drive from one ocean to the other with less than an inch of rotation if you ignored gas stations.
Good idea.... but it tracks straight, doesn't pull, and there's no slop. It's merely the 'quickness'/effortless turning of the wheel. I feel like it'd be easy to drop a drink and crash because of it. I barely have to turn the wheel to be in control on the freeway, I guess maybe it's like a light trigger, if you used a firearm reference?
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Here's your first and only mistake -- these vans will NEVER handle like a Honda or Audi!!! They are quite squirrely when everything is tight -- as are most systems built like this with drag links and idler arms, etc. The responsiveness of your steering is a feature not a bug.
Your Audi and Honda likely have rack-and-pinion steering -- which is known for its road manners!! Correct me if I'm wrong.
You could "loosen" the preload on your steering gear -- but these are set from factory and aren't meant to be adjusted.
You'd be the first person I know who wants to adjust it to be "looser" -- most people adjust them to be a bit "tighter" since their box has some slop from high mileage. Perhaps the PO on your van tightened it -- and now you need to loosen it, again.
Adjusting it either way will cause premature wear on the box -- but if you hate how your van drives -- it might be worth a shot.
Here's a video on it -- I haven't watched it -- but search "saginaw power steering box adjustment" and you'll find enough reading for one maybe two drunken Saturday evenings...
If you got some money and want to burn it -- buy a Redhead Gearbox -- they're the best -- but unless your box is "overtightened" -- I'm afraid you may end up in the exact same situation you're in right now.
I'll say it again...increasing castor increases the firmness of the tracking. It is a less-conventional solution that worked for me.
"The main disadvantage to positive caster is that the steering requires a higher amount of input effort to turn the wheel" (from 2nd link below)
The only other solution is to "live with it"... "it's just a van, it's not a sports car".
Again, it is surprising that your alignment was set to ZERO toe.
I've never seen that done. It's not correct and may be part of the problem.
But as also mentioned.. tires may have something to do with how it tracks as well. I run an LT HT (highway touring) tire that tracks firm and rides amazingly well. I'm less inclined however, to believe the trouble is because of your tires. Good alignment is everything.
Here's a couple links:
Understanding the importance of the caster | TireBuyer.com
Caster – Geometry Explained – Suspension Secrets
This one explains the advantages quite well:
Positive, Negative & Zero Caster Explained | Low Offset
DO NOT DO THIS. It would only increase slop and play... and steering would likely become jerky. If it has been tampered with, then it could potentially cause you issues, or damage to gearbox.
I used to daily drive a Lexus, so I know what you mean. I think your steering system is working as intended, but not as you would like. In that case one of the best things you could do would be to increase your caster and add a little bit of tow in like Musicman suggested. In addition to that, you could reduce how much the pressure in the power steering pump, but it's a lot more work, and who knows if it's needed. Why don't you start with that and see if you're still unhappy.
AND YES it is POSSIBLE to reduce power-steering pressure.
The internal pressure valve IS adjustable.
Off-road guys do it all the time.. except they increase pressure (to deal with monster tires)
But I suspect it wouldn't likely make much difference while highway cruising straight, since pressure is minimal anyway already. It's mostly for max pressure regulation on hard turning.
But I could also be wrong on this one...
The internal pressure valve IS adjustable.
Off-road guys do it all the time.. except they increase pressure (to deal with monster tires)
But I suspect it wouldn't likely make much difference while highway cruising straight, since pressure is minimal anyway already. It's mostly for max pressure regulation on hard turning.
But I could also be wrong on this one...
^ look at the alignment specs.... literally says AWD should be 0.00" toe in/out.
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Wouldn't be the first time a factory published spec was wrong. I set my van slightly toe in and have no issues past 95 (don't ever go much faster than that
^ look at the alignment specs.... literally says AWD should be 0.00" toe in/out.
)
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Yeah -- and honestly -- that spec is written for stock AWD -- not lifted. It's pretty common to max out caster when you lift -- as this is a huge component of death wobble -- caster and a slight bit of tow in will stop memory steer -- it'll take more input to steer -- but that seems what you're looking for...Wouldn't be the first time a factory published spec was wrong. I set my van slightly toe in and have no issues past 95 (don't ever go much faster than that
Head back to the alignment shop and tell them you're having a bit of difficulty with tracking --- have them add a bit of toe-in -- and then see how it goes!!
I forgot to update this. I aired the tires up from 35psi to 45psi and it's night and day, drives a lot better. They're LT tires so I think they can take even more, but for now 45 PSI made the sidewalls WAYYYYYYY less squishy.
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