[romeroom]

I will probably be starting this next project in the next week or two: replacing upper & lower ball joints on 95 AWD Astro. I would appreciate some suggestions on easiest way to accomplish this.

I helped replace an upper ball joint on the right side with a friend who used an acetylene torch and blew the rivets off effortlessly. I don't have access to his help anymore.

Here's what I'm thinking so far--with added questions:

1. I'm aware of needing to jack up the van under the lower control to facilitate compressing the spring and keeping it from causing serious injury.

2. Given that I'm becoming adept to drilling into bolts and studs with cobalt drill bits, I was planning on using a drill to remove the rivet heads and punch the rest of the rivet off. Is it true that I can just remove the rest of the rivet with a punch and hammer? Or am I expecting too much?

3. Are there any other special tools I'm going to need?

Thanks.

 

[gillbates]

You can use a big (sledge) hammer to knock the lower ball joint out but you will need a press to put the new one in. A drill and punch is all you need to get the original ball joint out.

 

[romeroom]

You can use a big (sledge) hammer to knock the lower ball joint out but you will need a press to put the new one in. A drill and punch is all you need to get the original ball joint out.

Thanks. I'm confused about the need for a press to put the new one in. Below is a picture from the AutoZone lower ball joint. It looks a lot like the upper ball joint, which when I installed one of them after the old one was removed, all it required was to bolt it on and that was it. If I'm to install the one pictured below, how would I use a press to install it?

 

[romeroom]

You can use a big (sledge) hammer to knock the lower ball joint out but you will need a press to put the new one in. A drill and punch is all you need to get the original ball joint out.

After my last response to your reply a few minutes ago, I searched on RockAuto and found the type of lower ball joint you press on. (See picture below). I have to assume that is an option as well in my situation, though I can't confirm that right now.

My question: Is the press on lower ball joint easier to install since it doesn't involve drilling and punching out anything...(I think)? I believe I can get a ball joint press at AutoZone as part of their "Loan-A-Tool" program for free. I fully realize this may seem like a stupid question--which probably is. I've heard that ball joint assemblies that are originally attached to the van with rivets are usually not the the type that are "pressed" in and out, and thus, require the use of a pre-assembled ball joint housing that is simply bolted on the the vehicle using the holes exposed after removing the rivets. I just want to make sure I have the right information before I start drilling and banging.

 

[Matrixx]

Hi romeroom

The lower ball joints are pressed in and the upper ball joints are bolt on. Just have a look at your set-up and make sure the upper ball joints match the bolt pattern that is available for yours, if it doesn't, then they are the wrong ones. You don't drill any extra holes for the upper ball joints, you just use the wholes that are already their from removing the rivets on the old ones. Moog is my suggestion here ball joints. Hope this helps.

 

[webcat]

I did my balljoints one time , uppers were a peice a cake i never did get the bottom ones in , i think auto zone may have lent me the wrong tool
I think the tool they lent me would have probally worked on a Astro but i was working on a full size chevy van.
the guy that ended up putting the bottom ones in pressed them in and then he put about 4 welds on them , you guys ever hear of that ?

 

[romeroom]

I did my balljoints one time , uppers were a peice a cake i never did get the bottom ones in , i think auto zone may have lent me the wrong tool
the guy that ended up putting the bottom ones in put about 4 welds on them , you guys ever hear of that ?

How were the old bottom ones removed? Torch? Drill and Punch? Did it leave 4 holes?

 

[romeroom]

Hi romeroom

The lower ball joints are pressed in and the upper ball joints are bolt on. Just have a look at your set-up and make sure the upper ball joints match the bolt pattern that is available for yours, if it doesn't, then they are the wrong ones. You don't drill any extra holes for the upper ball joints, you just use the wholes that are already their from removing the rivets on the old ones. Moog is my suggestion here ball joints. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the suggestion. I understand there's no need to drill new holes. Yet, the rivet/bolt pattern that is on the lower ball joint assembly in my Astro is the same as the one I pictured earlier (download/file.php?id=1051). If I were to choose that pictured item, how would I use the press? It seems that bolting it on like the upper ball joint is all I would need to do? Am I missing something here? Thanks for your patience and my amateur questions.

 

[webcat]

he pressed them out , it did'nt leave four holes , it just look like he put the welds there after he pressed them in for xtra strength!

the van i did was a fullsize chevy . but the lower ball joint looked simular to the blue one pictured above .

 

[romeroom]

I have not posted an update on this issue for a while. I was able to get the upper ball joints replaced "easy enough." The lower ball joints appear to be a different matter.

A friend of mine who owns an engine shop offered to "blast" them out with fire. All I need to do is remove the lower control arms and bring them to him. I have some questions, related to the job itself and the attached pictures:

1. The lower ball joint (Pic #1) appears to be "sandwiched" into the control arm, attached by rivets. Am I looking at this correctly? If so, does this mean that after the rivets are removed, the old ball joint assembly can be "easily" removed to make room for the new one?

2. Torsion bar pressure will need to be loosened in order to remove the lower control arm. I understand Pic 1 & 2 are associated with this procedure. Can some of you enlighten me on this? Thanks.

 

[mystrovan]

Question #1, yes thats correct, but all the rivits material has to be out of the way to tap the ball joint out of the control arm.

Question #2, I don't know about the torsion bar because I drilled and chiselled the rivets out of the lower ball joint with the control arm on the van. Once the spindle/hub is seperated from both ball joints and swing out of the way, the axle can be gentlley manouvered to sit over the sway bar mount, so its well out of the way to drill in my case. Can you take the whole van to your buddy and do it on the van? Seems like less work then.

 

[romeroom]

Question #1, yes thats correct, but all the rivits material has to be out of the way to tap the ball joint out of the control arm.

Question #2, I don't know about the torsion bar because I drilled and chiselled the rivets out of the lower ball joint with the control arm on the van. Once the spindle/hub is seperated from both ball joints and swing out of the way, the axle can be gentlley manouvered to sit over the sway bar mount, so its well out of the way to drill in my case. Can you take the whole van to your buddy and do it on the van? Seems like less work then.

Thanks for your reply. I also urgently need to replace the bushings on the upper control arm. My friend has tools that can do that. You mentioned chiseling yours out. I would consider drilling out the lowers, but really had a hard time with the uppers. I would consider doing it myself again. Do you have any suggestions on how I could do it easier? What chiseling mechanism did you use?

 

[astro355]

Do you have access to a torch?

 

[romeroom]

Nope, no torch. My friend does, that's why the plan is for me to take off the arms and bring them to him.

 

[astro355]

A torch will definitely be the easiest (and most fun) way to do it. :mrgreen:

 

[romeroom]

... I drilled and chiselled the rivets out of the lower ball joint ....

Turns out the lower control arm bushings are rusted onto the bolt; the bolt would have to be cut out. I'm not going to do that.

So, the drilling method is what I will need to do. I would appreciate any hints you have on this method. Did you drill from on top or the bottom, or both?

 

[mystrovan]

Well I don't have a hoist and only had jackstands....I didn't feel like blocking the van really high off the ground, so I couldn't drill out the lower ball joint rivits from below, no clearance, I had to drill them from above, so the axle shaft needs to be carefully moved out of the way when everything else is removed, or totally removed from the diff too.
I then center punched and drilled the rivits starting with a small drill and WD40 to cool and lube the bit now and again. I followed someones instructions round here somewhere. But I drilled about 3/4 way down the rivit, then use a larger and larger bit, it seems to drill easier after the first small bit as the subsequent larger size bits really cut faster because of the hole already there. I finished off with a drill bit the same size as the rivit hole in the control arm, BUT carefully drill just the head of the rivit this time until you are down to the bottom of the rivit head on the control arm and don't drill down the 3/4 length of the rivit this time in case you accidentaly drill the control arm (elongating the hole then) if you are not exactly dead center in the rivit. One or two rivit heads came off then at this point, others had to be whacked off with a cold chisel, or in my case I also had a air chisel ($26) on my air compressor. With the heads gone then use a punch and hammer to whack whats left of the rivits out of the holes, then the ball joint comes off with a few taps. Hold the punch with pliers if you tend to hit your hand with the hammer!

Top ball joint drilled out the same way. Just had less rivits.

 

[romeroom]

... Hold the punch with pliers if you tend to hit your hand with the hammer!

Good idea about using a pliers.

Any idea on how to "press" upper control arm bushings in?

 

[romeroom]

Well, a quick and final update on this post from the originator...me.

1. Upper control arm bushings: Had a friend who owns a shop with a hydraulic press get the old ones out and new ones in. The old ones were so rusted in that it took 12 tons of pressure to get them out--with a "bang" not unlike war time cannons.

2. Lower ball joint: decided to do just one (the other was fine) because of what a huge hassle it was. After grinding the rivets on top and bottom flush with the control arm surface, I attempted to punch it out with a punch and hammer like everyone else said would work. Not a chance. I used a 3 pound hammer and hit it as hard as I could with not hint of the rivet moving. I ended up drilling each of them out using 4 drill bits, from smallest to largest until the hole was nearly the circumference needed to put the new bolts in...It was then that the last drill bit dislodged a very thin outer shell of the rivet. After all were removed, the ball joint came out effortlessly.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and encouragement.

 

[cowboydan]

Well, a quick and final update on this post from the originator...me.

1. Upper control arm bushings: Had a friend who owns a shop with a hydraulic press get the old ones out and new ones in. The old ones were so rusted in that it took 12 tons of pressure to get them out--with a "bang" not unlike war time cannons.

2. Lower ball joint: decided to do just one (the other was fine) because of what a huge hassle it was. After grinding the rivets on top and bottom flush with the control arm surface, I attempted to punch it out with a punch and hammer like everyone else said would work. Not a chance. I used a 3 pound hammer and hit it as hard as I could with not hint of the rivet moving. I ended up drilling each of them out using 4 drill bits, from smallest to largest until the hole was nearly the circumference needed to put the new bolts in...It was then that the last drill bit dislodged a very thin outer shell of the rivet. After all were removed, the ball joint came out effortlessly.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and encouragement.

your right. the lowers are a pain. the reason they are is that gm used hot press to mash the rivets in. this creates a unique problem when using a press. the press can only be used after drilling completly through to almost 3/8". you have to chisel the 4 heads off. before you even think about using wd40, remember, the idea of lubrication is not just to lubricate, but also to keep the bit from overheating. high pitch squeal is not allowed. wd40 increases heat and cooks the bit right away. 3n1 is no good either.

the tools:
safety glasses
shop rags
trouble light
low profile cookie sheet
32oz ballpean hammer
6" block of 2x4
longer 2x4 used for supporting the upper control arm so the drill fits, measure and cut accordingly
large 3/4 cold chisel
center punch
new box of metal only bits
cordless 18v drill/ 2 batts. do not use corded drill/ too much rpm
squirt bottle and a good thick engine oil/ sythetic is best. i found 2 stroke synthetic keeps bits cooler, longer
2 sets of hands for trade-off/ not nessesity
universal joint portable press/ not nessesity. looks like a c-clamp but much heavier. the end also has a hole
1/2 drive impact
small propane torch is helpful/ not nessesity

the method:
use of a cutting torch makes quick work of the rivets, but it has been know to weaken the control arm, and is not recomened for a novice user

you don't need to remove control arms.
remove cv shaft by tapping on the 6" block to tripot housing of shaft outward from diff. 3 good taps will do
cover hole with rag
support upper control arm to gain working room with long 2x4
center punch rivet head, accuracy saves time a bit later

start drilling.... hope you ate your wheaties!
drill a bit more than 1/8" down with 5/32 bit, being sure to use the oil LIBERALLY. plan on using alot. think, after the head comes off, you shouldn't have to center punch again
use large drill bit to remove as much material from the head as possible but do not drill into control arm. you will leave the oudside of the rivet head.
using the 3/4" chisel, hammer the rest of the head off. repeat x4
there should be a faint outline of the rivet. that line does not represent the size of rivet but rather the size hole in control arm. the hole in the balljoint is smaller by 1/16". size drill bit to the rivet outline and drill 1/8 below flush (that's about the thickness of control arm). the rivet is tapered on the top and the bottom. failure to remove this little bit from the top will cause cursing later when you still can't get the rivet out. if you can't see the faint circle, smooth with grinder/ dremel.

comence staged drilling
use 6-7 assorted bits, beginning with 5/32 and lots of oil (1 squirt per second or if smoke appears). drilling completly through with such a small bit is the hardest step, and breakage can occur easily, so easy on the pressure (pm me if you do break that little bit). you want to get as close to the rivet size as you can. a good note to keep in mind is that the rivet is softer then the contol arm, so if you start hitting the edge you will know. if you do take some material from the control arm it's not the end of the world... within reason
if you removed the little bit from the top of the rivet as suggested, then a simple punch /hammer and tapping is all that is needed to remove remaining rivets.

if you can't get them to budge, then you may want a porti press. not too bad except you will need to get creative. i used interchangable allans to fit but under that amount of pressure it got a bit...alot scetchy. the key to using the press is keeping everything centered as not to create projectiles. if it steps off-center, then stop pressing. using an impact with variable trigger is handy.

good luck. this is becoming a more popular job as the astro/safri ages. maybe this should be sticky...oh well, it's not