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Common Sense + Critical Thinking
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Also, might be wise to put the part numbers in the thread, for 'if' the pictures ever go missing ;)


it's important to have an adult in the room here - thank you for keeping an eye on things!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure I qualify ;)
This was a different setup, but mentions part of the o2 sensor changes between years. IT HAS BEGUN! ASTRO 411 PCM upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
i'm working on clearing up the confusion i have on the O2 sensor wiring.
digging through the factory service manuals, i found diagrams that should help.
i'll make 2 separate posts of scans from the FSM from the "engine controls" sections of the 1999 & 2002 manuals.
hopefully comparing the scans from the 2 years should resolve the issue.
this first post is the scanned info from the 1999 manual :

sensor identification by location :
Motor vehicle Font Art Gesture Automotive design


wiring diagram :
Schematic Font Rectangle Parallel Engineering



left side, upstream of cat (bank 1, sensor 1) - sensor connector :


Rectangle Font Line Parallel Pattern



right side, upstream of cat (bank 2, sensor 1) - sensor connector :
Rectangle Font Parallel Pattern Number



right side, downstream of cat (bank 1, sensor 3) - sensor connector :
Rectangle Font Parallel Pattern Engineering
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
scanned O2 info from the 2002 manual :

sensor identification by location :
Font Parallel Slope Elbow Art


wiring diagram :
Rectangle Slope Font Schematic Parallel


left side, upstream of cat (bank 1, sensor 1) - sensor connector :
White Rectangle Font Line Parallel

right side, upstream of cat (bank 2, sensor 1) - sensor connector :


White Font Rectangle Line Parallel


right side, downstream of cat (bank 1, sensor 2) - sensor connector :
Font Rectangle Line Parallel Poster
 

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Some of the sensors are wired a bit differently inside, something with the way the grounding works. Are you close to finding out? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Some of the sensors are wired a bit differently inside, something with the way the grounding works. Are you close to finding out? :)
yes i believe so. i need to scribble on the wiring diagram pages that i posted above, rescan them and let you check my work..........

i think i'll be OK with my harness repining plan, i'm getting close to accounting for everything now before i touch any wires - i don't want to have to figure out things later, correcting a s**tlist of trouble codes on a poorly or non-running van. after studying the wiring diagrams of both the 1999 & 2002 manuals, if i wasn't so far along, i might consider a totally different approach to this upgrade. this different approach would be to take out a JY 0411 PCM with the WHOLE harness still attached - and replace the PCM and harness as a unit, instead of making the old harness work with a newer computer. i also think this approach would help to idiot proof things if one were ever to need to have an outside mechanic work on the vehicle. you could just say "the PCM and every wire and sensor under the hood attached to the PCM were swapped in from the same 2002 van", instead of writing a book on what was done piecemeal (i've already started one and i keep it in the passenger door pocket).

this picture is of a partial harness still connected to a 0411; it's cut where the harness runs down the left side of the bell housing - that was as far as i could pull it as the van was on the ground with flat tires. i did get all of the O2 bank 2 sensor 1 wiring to look at.
Automotive tire Road surface Motor vehicle Asphalt Tar


Asphalt Road surface Art Sidewalk Painting



i already know that i'll use the knock sensor wires and the alternator wires off of this. if i could have gotten the whole thing i would probably use the O2 sensor wires too - with that much already peeled out of the harness you start to think, well, why not the whole thing?? the only other wires that would be left go to the fuse box and the firewall bulkhead connector - i've got those on the pictured harness too.
since this harness is already chopped up i plan on dissecting it - i'll do some more pics & commentary when i start the autopsy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I didn't give up on this thread but I had cataracts and literally couldn't see the pin numbers on the connectors so I quit messing with them.

so now I've finally got the cloudy lenses removed and have the replacement lenses installed and they work great!!!!!!!

reading through what I had previously figured out, I realize that I have lost a lot of the "feel" for what I was doing.

I'm happy to be getting back into it. I've decided to go for replacing ALL of the oxygen sensor wiring from the PCM to the sensors with runs from a 2002 harness & not even try to figure out how to modify the original wires - I'll have to replace all of the O2 sensors with the 2002 ones - naturally I have a new set of the '99 sensors stashed away - oh well. I also will change out the alternator wiring run instead of adding to the original. that should clear out quite a bit of the unknown portion of my working pin charts..........
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
nerd/geek/spazz alert :
when i first started to seriously think about upgrading the PCM i wondered if i could make patch cords from the van's female harness connectors to the 0411"s male connectors, to eliminate the repinning process alltogether. i'll post this for posterity/laughs/insomnia in case anyone wants to look into this......


i wanted to leave the van's original, sealed, female harness-to-PCM connectors as is :
Green Wood Rectangle Magenta Fashion accessory



then have compatible male connectors attached to :
Train Motor vehicle Rectangle Rolling stock Wood


the chopped off pigtail ends of a JY 0411's female harness-to-PCM connectors :
Wood Circuit component Tints and shades Art Electric blue


and wa-la, patch cords.

the harness connectors to the black box PCM latch and seal to the aluminum PCM housing, not the male connectors themselves :
Wood Circuit component Close-up Metal Fashion accessory


Circuit component Motor vehicle Rectangle Bag Office equipment


the male connectors mount to the circuit boards, not the aluminum housing :
Vehicle Motor vehicle Toy Wood Railway


the circuit board assembly is clamped between the aluminum housing halves when it is screwed together, there isn't a direct physical attachment.

Grille Hood Rectangle Automotive lighting Bumper



Rectangle Wood Gas Tints and shades Font


note the cover plate and the clamping screws here :
Rectangle Font Gas Electric blue Metal


need to upload here..............
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
nerd/geek/spazz continued :
the male black box connectors pictured in the above post, if taken off the circuit boards and connected to the pigtails, won't physically latch or seal to the female connectors when plugged together. I didn't want to go to the trouble of making the patch cords just to blob together the connections with tape to make a permanent setup.

so I looked for compatible stand-alone male connectors at Delphi but apparently none were ever designed/produced - really not surprising due to the application :
Font Parallel Rectangle Auto part Diagram




Automotive tire Font Rectangle Parallel Diagram


Font Terrestrial plant Parallel Document Paper



Font Parallel Document Paper Diagram


Font Parallel Screenshot Document Number

the board mounted connectors solder in on pins bent at a right angle to the plug-in face :
Passive circuit component Circuit component Computer data storage Hardware programmer Electronic engineering


Office equipment Auto part Engineering Metal Nickel


Rectangle Font Electric blue Plastic Electronics accessory


so with no other alternative, to make permanent patch cords using the original male connectors and making the patch cords weatherproof & positively latching gets so complicated/time consuming that I bailed on the idea. the only way I saw to make it work was to use part of the aluminum housing, chopping it off just past the thick inner rib running side to side. chop off and strip the circuit boards to the point that all they do is hold the connectors in position to clamp them in place in the housing. find female terminals that will slide on to the connector pins. run the mass of wire out either through a sealed hole drilled through the cover plate I referenced above or through a hole in a fabricated plate that seals the aluminum housing together at the chopped off point. for me the end result would be too ugly, massive and clunky to mess with.
making a temporary patch cord with the male connectors only on the pigtails would be the only use for this I could see.
whew !!
uhh, never mind............
 

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No shame in trying, after dealing with the headache my s10 0411 swap was without the lextech sheets, i cut open a spare black box, cut the connectors from the pcb with an angle grinder and quite literally soldered nearly every connector from the BB to the 0411 plugs before I finally realized that threre wasn't a snowballs chance in hellthat I wouldn't cause more problems than not by going tthat route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
back to work on my O2 sensor unknowns.........

Some of the sensors are wired a bit differently inside, something with the way the grounding works. Are you close to finding out? :)
yes i believe so. i need to scribble on the wiring diagram pages that i posted above, rescan them and let you check my work..........
here's my scribbling..............
Schematic Font Parallel Engineering Rectangle



Rectangle Font Parallel Pattern Slope


the gist of the matter is the 2002 PCM used 7 connector pins to run it's O2 sensor system and the 1999 VCM used 9 connector pins to run it's O2 sensor system - the 2 pin difference relates to the low reference wires.

the 1999 system split the single low reference wire coming out of each of the 3 O2 sensor's connector into 2 (on the 1999 schematic above, splices : S151, S152, S153), and each wire got a separate pin at the VCM, for a total of 6 pins related to low reference.

the 2002 system tied the low reference wires for each of the 3 O2 sensors together (on the 2002 schematic above, splice S262). at this same splice 4 more wires were spliced in - 3 of these wires went to PCM pins related to an individual sensor. 1 wire went to a common low reference pin (C1-63), for a total of 4 pins related to low reference.

if I read the schematics correctly, on the 1999 wire harness, if I splice 1 of the 2 low reference wires from each O2 sensor together, and add 1 more wire to run to pin C1-63 on the 0411 PCM, then the spliced 1999 harness should be electrically the same as a 2002 harness.

whether or not the O2 sensors themselves and the harness sensor connectors need to be changed I do not know at this point.

this is why I have been contemplating taking all of the O2 sensor wiring out of a JY 2002 harness. I haven't yet peeled open the partial harness shown in the above pics to make a final decision........



little by little I'm gonna get it I swear
 
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