[Moshe]

After having my van for a year (bought it secondhand, '92 Safari), I totalled up the mileage and the gas put in, and I only get about 8.2 MPG. The van has fairly low mileage (@ 135K), and it has been treated well. I do all repairs necessary, but I still have this lousy mileage.

Additionally, once in a while the van will stall when I start it up in the morning (and it's pretty warm here - not cold at all).

Any ideas what it might be? The 02 sensor? Something else?

Thanks for any and all ideas, I'd really like to get this working as it should.

Moshe

 

[kidhauler]

The O2 sensor will cause the van to run rich they are cheap and easy to replace so I would start there. Also you might want to take a look at your injector spray pattern. Is it a nice fan shape or is it dripping lots of fuel. A rebuild kit is only about $50 and is easy to do they come with a new spring and baffle for your fuel pressure regulator. Another problem could be a clogged cat. If the cat cloggs the van will have to add lots of extra fuel to try and make power.

Just a FYI I have a 91 H.O. 2wd and towing a 5000lbs travel trailer I still got 15mpg so you have a huge problem you should be getting around 20-25mpg provided you don't beat the hell out of your van drag racing off every light you get near. Or drive around with 2000lbs in the van.

The stalling problem could be lots of things. How old are your Cap, Rotor, Plugs and Leads???

 

[Moshe]

Would any of those issues cause the "check engine now" light to go on? My light is not on.

I brought the car to my local mechanic today, and he didn't want to touch it (or take my money) - he said that the mileage I get is the norm for these cars in this climate (I'm in Israel - Jerusalem).

Would it pay to change the oxygen sensors in any case (even if the light does not go on)?

Is there some kind of diagnostic tool that I can hook up to the car to see how it's working and if there are any problems with it?

Thanks

Moshe

 

[Bikehauler]

A faulty O2 sensor will not always set off the SES light. I have had mine fail several times over the years and it never tripped the light.
I think you should try a new mechanic that knows something!! My V8 van towing the house will not get 8.2 MPG. Something is wrong but it should be easy to fix.
If you buy a scan tool you can check the voltage on the O2. it should be between .1-.9 volts. lower is lean higher is rich. I had a new O2 read .2 all the time so the computer thought the van was running lean and kept dumping in more fuel to compensate. If it is working properly it will cycle between rich and lean continuously. If you get it scanned make sure the van is going into closed loop operation once warm. If it stays in open loop that will hurt the mileage.
Let us know how you do.

 

[Moshe]

Thanks for the advice. Do you have any advice as to which scan tool that will work on a '92 Safari? From what I understand, most models only work on later models (from '94 or '96).

Thanks in advance.

 

[rayjay]

8.2 hell i get more out of my articulated truck man, is the van struggling on aceleration or any thing else u noticed like are the brakes dragging- or is one of your boots made of lead?

 

[Moshe]

The van is not struggling on acceleration - it drives very well. The only thing is a constant pinging noise when the engine runs - it's been that way since I got it, but the mechanic said not to worry about it, so I'm not worrying.

Also, it seems to idle with a lot of power - I take my foot off the brake and the van is already moving - without even pressing the accelerator. It could be that it is normal for this make, but I have not had such an experience with other cars.

 

[kidhauler]

check your idle level it might be a little high. Also if your getting alot of pinging check your knock sensor it could be retarding your timing and that could affect mileage. What octane gas are you using??? I run 87 in my van as that is the cheapest gas here and I don't get pinging. If your running poor fuel (below 87 octane) that could also be some of your problem.

Hope some of this helps.

What kind of speed are you driving at? If your running across the dunes at 160kph + then yeah your going to get some bad mileage. These vans are based around North American speed limits and are designed to cruise at 100-130kph they will go faster but they start getting thirsty.

 

[Big_kid]

Check your universal joints, they could be seizing.

A friend had a Buick that got 4mpg and had no power. This was odd, because we had installed a Pontiac 301 with a turbocharger on it in the car. Even keeping the pedal to the floor, that engine gave 12 MPG when it was still in the Pontiac. We never really had time to check it out, I found it when pulling the engine to send the car to the crusher.

Good luck!

 

[Moshe]

Thanks for all the advice - here's the update:
I went to a different mechanic today, and he took a look under the car. He told me that I don't have an oxygen sensor (this model comes without it) and that the catalytic converter was removed as well. He suggested cleaning out the TBI engine and replacing all the seals, etc..

Does this make sense? I don't know too much about these things, and I'm trying to learn.

In response to the questions:
Average speeds are about 50-60 KPH - not too fast at all. I use 96 octane (European measures) which is what the sticker on the van says to use.

 

[Gary]

I would lhink you would see black smoke coming out if you where running that rich.That is about 1/2 the amount of the mileage that is normal for a AWD.I would guess you got to have a leak some place.Do you smell gas when you are driving??.Check the line from the tank to the injectors.If it is leaking at the intake,I would think it might be getting into the oil pan.Pull the dip stick and smell the oil for gas.The TBI has a IAC which controls idle mixture.They do carbon up and will cause a high ilde issue.While the van is running and you have the dog house off,spray the sides of the intake with carb clearner to see if that changes the idle.If it does,then you have a intake leak.Look at all the vac lines for a vac leak.While you spray the intake,I would think you could find a vac leak on those vac lines and that too would cause a high idle and bad gas mileage.Look at the back cornners of the intake for a oil leak where it is common to find a leak,if it is leaking there,more than likely it is a vac leak too.While the engine is cold,pull the rad cap,let the engine get to operating temp and look into the rad for bubbles.If it has those bubbles,it has a bad head gasket or cracked head.

Let us know what ya find afterwards.

 

[kidhauler]

Once again your mechanic is a bit of a tool. If you have fuel injection you should have a O2 sensor. Otherwise you will never get into closed loop mode and will run rich all the time.

 

[Gary]

Once again your mechanic is a bit of a tool. If you have fuel injection you should have a O2 sensor. Otherwise you will never get into closed loop mode and will run rich all the time.

Yeppers-kind of doubt it doesn't have a 02 sensor.

 

[gtkane]

I agree with those guys...gotta have an o2 sensor.

 

[Bikehauler]

I'll bet that some one removed the o2 sensor when they ditched the CAT. The van will stay in open loop and that would explain the pinging and bad fuel economy. You are going to need to find somone who knows american cars. These things are fairly simple but if you have never been trained on them you will do some stupid things.
Ahh the joys of exotic imports :lol: :lol: . This would be like having the chevy dealer try to fix your Tata.
Rocke.

 

[Moshe]

OK - here's the latest:

I checked with yet another mechanic, who told me that there are some models of the Astro that don't have an O2 sensor. Maybe you guys can tell me exactly where to look, and I can take a picture and upload it to the forum so that you can see what it looks like.

In the meantime, I had the guy who suggested cleaning out the fuel injection system do as he suggested, and he found that the fuel injectors were too open, which wasted tons of gas. He cleaned that up and also replaced the fuel line - he wasn't too clear as to what he did, but whatever he did, it really improved the car. The high idling is now gone, and the car runs much smoother and has much more power when giving gas. I'll know in a few days how much the mileage has improved, but it is definitely running much better than before.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions! I'll update here when I have the mileage info.

 

[Moshe]

OK - I just pulled out my copy of Haynes Automotive Repair Manual, and I see that there is no mention of some models not having an 02 sensor, so the mechanic is probably wrong. I see the picture of where it should be - in the Left Exhaust Manifold, but I can't quite figure out where the left exhaust manifold is. Can someone help me out with this? I can then upload a picture and you guys can fill me in on what's missing.

Thanks

 

[johnny-77]

I am just wondering if they mean that some do not have a down stream O2 sensor. Some had one some had two and some had three but no GM EFI motor that I have seen had no O2 sensor. Looking from the front the left exhaust manifold is on the right if you look for the spark plug wires the exhaust is just above them the O2 sensor will likely be in the section that hooks to the Y pipe of the exhaust how ever mine was on the right side.

 

[kidhauler]

Tell your mechanic that the only van not to have a o2 sensor was a carburated engine. you should have one sensor mounted right where the exhaust pipes "Y" together on the passenger side of the engine kind of right beside the bellhousing to the transmission. If your sensor is missing some moron probably pulled it out when changing the exhaust and never put it back. You should have a wire hanging down on that side of the engine with a male ended plastic clip on it that is where your sensor should plug in. I beleive the wire is yellow if I remember correctly. The next guy who says the van doesn't need a sensor should be slapped up the side of the head. Every fuel injected car needs a O2 sensor.

 

[Moshe]

OK - I think I found it! There is a clip that hangs down right by the Y of the exhaust pipe - it has three wires leading to it - see the attached pictures. Is this it?

If so, where do I put the O2 sensor that plugs into it?

Thanks again for all the help!

Moshe