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Hypothetical towing enhancements

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4.7K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  Hank  
#1 ·
Here is the backstory.

Some of you know the beast I pull with my Astro. It is a 2003 AWD with the lousy 3.42 gears. The trailer is a 25' bunkhouse that weighs 4099 dry. And I'm aware the manual says max 4600 in my config.

Every year we hit the RV shows and start thinking about a new trailer, tow rig - most likely a suburban-, or a class C. Either way it ends up being a 60k minimum hit. So every year we punt and say not now as the Astro and trailer are paid off.

So yes the Asto is a bit anemic but it will pull ok here in nice flat Florida. At the moment I wouldn't go someplace like the TN mountains but I've hauled it all over the state from Disney, the Keys and east coast Lion Country Safari.

The problems I've had so far are: Going through the hills in Orlando, I sometimes kick down to 2nd gear and 45mph. That tends to tick people off. Also once going across state in a 30mph headwind I could not get out of 2nd gear and 40mph. I tend to get pushed around by big trucks or buses on the highway which makes for a bit of a tiring drive.

So far I have added a rear sway bar, transmission cooler and re-tuned the trans with HPTuners. All with very positive results. On trips I average 9-10 mpg which is also in-line with a class C.

Problems: I got talked into touring tires at the tire shop vs. replacing my BFG AT KO's. The sidewalls on the touring tires suck. I suspect this is a good portion of my being pushed around as the AT's were awesome but a little noisy.

Here are my random thoughts and ideas to possibly stave off a 60k hit:

4.10 gears - ugh as I have to do front and rear. Should help big time with towing. The van is only used now for kid drops at schools as my wife is a stay at home. Don't laugh but I sold here crappy Dodge Caravan as it was falling apart and bought me the bottom end Nissan Versa as a commuter car. Not counting repairs, I'm saving 80.00 a month compared to the Dodge.

Dumping the touring tires and getting Firestone Destination LT tires rather than the BFG's. Posts on here say the sidewalls are stiff and they are quieter than the BFG's, of course..

1" spacers on the rear axle. I know I hate spacers too, just thinking the whole Pontiac wider is better advertisement on TV.

Any other random ideas or crazy thoughts are appreciated. If it wasn't and AWD, I'd look at a V8 swap.

I also found a 23' bunkhouse that is higher, wider but 800lbs lighter. That could end up being "just" a 12k hit. But not a perfect space/layout solution.

Here is a photo of the current config.
Image
 
#3 ·
Sorry I should have added that point.

Wife want's a suburban but it has to be a late model GMC Yukon Denali.... Finding them for 20k

A bit of a happy wife, happy life issue...
 
#4 ·
Dunno what will make a significant difference but 40 mph max in any sort of headwind that was less than a hurricane isn't getting it done.

Personally I don't think you have enough truck for the load, for myself I got tired of playing around and bought a diesel E350 to do the towing work (and that was to replace a 2500 Suburban 5.7 that wasn't cutting it towing a trailer similar to yours).
 
#5 ·
I agree, on the out of truck issue. Was just trying to see if I missed anything creative but I was sure I didn't.

I traded my wife's Caravan in on a strippy 11k Nissan Versa as a commuter car for me. Nothing like 38mpg.

Now she needs to sort out what she wants to drive versus what kind of camping she wants the family to be able to do.

She wants the camping of a luxury 5th wheel but doesn't want to drive a truck. Told her I can't change the laws of physics on this.
 
#6 ·
I'm sitting on a 5.7 swap in an AWD van, why can't you do yours? But beyond that, I think you need something stronger regardless. I have the same problems with the wife though. A certain vehicle would fit the bill for the family, but she refuses to drive it. You either force the issue, or find a way to convince her that it's the only way it's going to happen. Someone has to make the hard choice. The only other solution is to buy an RV outright and get rid of the need for the Astro or whatever, and tow the Versa behind it.
 
#7 ·
I pondered the V8 swap but read there is more complication with the AWD. It also does not help with the wheelbase issue.

The wife issue just kills me sometimes. Found a smoking deal on a low mileage used Nissan Titan crew cab with leather everything and she won't drive a truck. The thing will tow 9600 versus 8000ish on the Suburban. Go figure...

Aargh....
 
#10 ·
My wife is coming to the realization on how much a Yukon XL and a trailer costs and is thinking that she is ok with keeping the van another year or two.

Don't laugh too hard but I'm seriously considering the following.

I found that the Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S are available in 215/60R16. The stiffer sidewall would help big time over the mush tires I have now and running the diameter through the calculator on 4lo.com shows an effective 3.67 gear ratio.

The specs have it within 16lbs of GVWR

That's cheaper than a gear swap!
 
#11 ·
I didn't get any comments or cracks on the 60 series tires but as of today they are not out of the question.

A dealership really ticked off my wife and she wants to punt on replacing the Astro for at least a year.

This means I need to replace the weak A/C compressor.
 
#12 ·
Hey Hank, I think everyone has already weighed in with their opinions. If you are calculating to be 16 lbs less than GVWR then you are overweight, probably by 10% or more (spec weights are always lighter than reality). The shorter tires will probably help a little but not as much as you hope. Max speed of 40 mph in a headwind is bad, max speed 45 going up a hill in Orlando is bad(to this north Georgia boy Orlando is completely flat, what hills?). Gearing might give you 10 more mph, maybe? A V8 or diesel swap is the only thing that is really going to change your power issue and by the time you do all that you could have bought a full size van or suburban (and have something MUCH more suited to towing a long bumper pull camper).

Here is mine with a ~4500 lb toy hauler attached. I moved it maybe 100 feet, from in front of the garage to it's parking space. That's about as far as I want to tow it with the Safari as it's not enough rig for the gig, personally I would not feel comfortable towing something so close to the van's limits.

Image
 
#13 ·
I know, at this point I'm posting in half jest and half not wanting to go 20k in debt..

Your photo looks looks a lot like mine. And I do agree with you.

I could always put in some NOS for going up that hill on the way to Disney.
 
#15 ·
My sister went across the states with a fifth wheel and a gmc duramax 2009 pick up , juts reach desired speed set cruise and forget bout it , i dont know what kind off budget you are on , but seems to me you either need a bigger truck of a smaller trailer .
 
#16 ·
Here is the latest.

I just shaved a bunch of debt and am about to shave some more, so I'm really adverse on going 20k+ into debt again. Even with the darn near free money I got from my credit union.

Between intake manifold, radiator and full A/C repair I just put about 1.5k into the van so at a bare minimum I need to keep it at least 6 more months to break the 1.5k across 6 months as car payments. If that makes sense.

Took a look at our camping schedule and I have one flatland trip across the state, one trip to the beach on local roads and the summertime park the trailer at a campground for three months. Again a fairly local drive once at the beginning of summer and once at the end. So you can really argue not needing anything bigger at the moment.

I also found a massive problem with my spark table and cleaned it up with HPTuners. I probably flubbed the tune testing something a while back. The van is driving real nice and powerband is really smooth. Should see some improvement with towing as I can feel a big change driving.

The biggest problem just has to be the crappy tires. I'm leaning towards the Firestone Destination over the Yokohama based on posts on the boards. Also the Firestone dealer is on my way to work. If I can get the tires mounted for 500.00 or under that puts me at 2k investment on the van for the year.

2k / 200 is 10 months. I know 200 bucks a month for a car payment is cheap but that is how I budget it for my wife to understand. nice round numbers.

This gets me a year to shed some more debt and get in better position for a truck/trailer or Class C and that Mazda mini station wagon thing.
 
#17 ·
Just got back from a 300 mile trip and here are some notes for current and future readers.

The updated spark table was a winner. Zero ping and for the first time ever, even prior to tuning, I was able to run regular not premium when towing.

Just before heading out I modified my tune and increased the shift points, tcc apply and tcc release by 3mph when in Tow Haul mode. This made a huge difference in keeping good consistent speed and eliminated the big drop downs into second. This also keeps the RPM's a little higher, I was bogging a little before.

I was able to run 60mph easy both directions, even with some headwind.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not changing my tune on needing a bigger tow rig.

So somewhere along the way, probably in the post multiple concussion days, I think I flubbed the current tune so I'm starting over with a very conservative approach.

I'm taking the factory tune and copying over the following:
Spark tables, normal and tow/haul
TCC apply/release tables
Shift points, normal and tow/haul

I'm not bringing over the following settings which are a bit aggressive
Air/Fuel ratio changes.
Power Enrichment changes
Force motor current changes.
CAT Overtemp Protection disable

TCC Duty cycle. Note factory is 96% which allows for about 200 rpm of slip. I had mine set at 100 which has 0 rpm slip. Feels like another gear shift.

Trans abuse/Torque reduction. I cut this in half on my tune, returning to factory settings.
Torque reduction during shift. Going back to factory settings.
Transmission shift and max pressure. Returning to factory settings.
A/C disable TPS/RPM going back to factory settings as I fixed my A/C compressor and this never really made a difference.