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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all. Something weird going on. I just rebuilt my steering: new upper/lower control arms w/ball joints, tie rods, stabilizer end links, drag link, new Rancho shocks.

Buttoned everything up and went for a test drive and couldn't get out of the drive way my front tires were rubbing so bad. I have a 3+1 lift and it looks like the lift is missing from the front end now. Did I mess up somewhere?

Here's how it looked pre-maintenence
Screen Shot 2021-08-25 at 4.52.46 PM.png
 

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did you mark the torsion bars and count how many turns to remove each one? then put it back the same as it was? Thats the only way to lose lifts by not returning it the way it was. Other then that the body lift should not change
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the reply. I didn't remove the torsion bars except for the end that goes into the control arm. As far as I can tell, those can only go back in one way. It's super weird. Obviously something changed but I don't know what. I've cranked the keys up all the way and the lift is back with no rubbing. But there's no adjustment left on the keys

markmitch said:
did you mark the torsion bars and count how many turns to remove each one? then put it back the same as it was? Thats the only way to lose lifts by not returning it the way it was. Other then that the body lift should not change
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Mmusicman said:
I don't see "before and after" photos, or actual measurements...
It's doubtful replacement control arms would change ride height
Yeah I don't think it has anything to do with the control arms. Somehow the torsion bar isn't acting the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok more data! I pulled the torsion adjuster bolt all the way out and torsion bar was completely loose. The little keeper bar came out easily. So does this mean I didn't rotate the control arm down enough when sliding it back onto the torsion bar? The weird thing is that the bar and the old CA was marked with orange pen and as far as I can tell I've got the bar clocked into the same position - I dunno. Torsion bar being clocked wrong in the CA seems to be the only logical explanation.
 

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I don't understand how you removed the control arms without unloading the torsion bars.

There are adjustment bolts on your torsion bars... that would be the first place I would look.
 

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Onelostmoto you've too good of photo taking skills to have folks guessing blind.
Throw them some pics of what all you did and maybe they'll spot something.
Edit: It's nighttime and you were prolly hoping to be done tonight, but a pic may or may not have helped out.

I was just looking at your rat pics and I was surprised to see so much real fiberglass cloth.
Looked like all real glass with only the blown in chopped strands on the wood boards.
Do you have any more nude shots of that top?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
WinnieVan said:
I don't understand how you removed the control arms without unloading the torsion bars.

There are adjustment bolts on your torsion bars... that would be the first place I would look.
I removed the control arms by following this pictorial (roughly)
https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=14628

Once the lower control arm was free from the frame mounts (and knuckle) it just dropped down and I wiggled it off the torsion bar. This is the first time I've done this kind of job so I'm not sure what is normal.

My torsion adjustment bolts were about half way before replacing the steering stuff. Now they're cranked all the way and it's almost back to the lift height.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
deafman said:
Onelostmoto you've too good of photo taking skills to have folks guessing blind.
Throw them some pics of what all you did and maybe they'll spot something.
Edit: It's nighttime and you were prolly hoping to be done tonight, but a pic may or may not have helped out.

I was just looking at your rat pics and I was surprised to see so much real fiberglass cloth.
Looked like all real glass with only the blown in chopped strands on the wood boards.
Do you have any more nude shots of that top?
Yeah sorry I didn't shoot any photos. Was definitely not anticipating such a weird outcome. If I'm feeling frisky tomorrow I'll pull a wheel off tomorrow and grab a pic. Looks pretty normal to me though.

The hightop came from Fiberine. I need to update my build thread as I have the interior finished finally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok here's some photos. I'm not sure what they'll show but maybe y'all will see something I don't.

Here's the new upper and lowers, stab end links, tie rods.
IMG_2157.jpeg


Torsion bar adjuster currently. Hard to tell from this angle but it' cranked up all the way and the marks don't line up perfectly like they did.
IMG_2158.jpeg


Here's the new lower with torsion bar. Notice the mark on the bar.
IMG_2159.jpeg


Here's the old control arm. The mark seems to be in the same position.
IMG_2160.jpeg


Is it even possible to have these bars be off one hex slot? 60 degrees of additional rotation seems like a lot.
 

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When I rebuilt my front end some time ago, I did lose some lift with the replacement control arms, I don't remember how much, didn't seem like nearly as much as you are describing, but it was noticeable... It's like the holes were clocked a little differently.....
 

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Provided the front control arm is extended all the way downward that looks normal to me.

I have had to lengthen my sway bar links before to obtain full downward extension of the control arm. If they are too short the angle of the bolt thru the bar hole is too much and causes them to bind up. FYI those new white MOOG bushings squeak like a mofo even if you grease them bejesus out of them.
 

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gavio said:
It's like the holes were clocked a little differently.....
Maybe there is a slight difference in the clocking? (in the lower control arm)

BTW Onelostmoto (and gavio)... what brand did you use?
Looks like I might be doing mine sometime in the near future, and I'm in the process of deciding between a few brands... Moog, Mevotech, & ACDelco.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the ideas, guys. @mmusicman the upper and lower arms are Mevotech. They look identical to stock but who knows.
 

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That bar is awful loose in the control arm. Shows daylight when moved.
Did the original control arm have that much play in it?
 

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I would start my investigation by first removing the sway bar bolts from each side. Like I already said, I had this problem myself and that was the cause.

The slop between the torsion bar end and control arm hex hole is always excessive. Otherwise it would rust itself in there for good.
 

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My recollection is that I used Mevotech arms, but it was a long time ago... IIRC, rockauto didn't have the AWD lower arms from anyone but Mevotech back then.... Maybe it's different now....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
97cargocrawler said:
I would start my investigation by first removing the sway bar bolts from each side. Like I already said, I had this problem myself and that was the cause.
Sadly, sway bar bolts was not the fix. Just pulled the end links and height stayed the same. :banghead: Good thought tho! I was wondering the same thing.

The passenger torsion adjuster bolt is cranked to max. The driver side is about 75% of the way up. I looked under the van and the front axles are parallel to the ground so it's riding pretty much at stock height. (before I replaced arms the axles had a little downward angle to them)

I'm totally baffled.

At this point I feel like my options are:
- after market keys to get some height back
- rip everything apart and put the old lowers back in with new bushings and ball joint (hate this idea)
 
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