Safari (99 v6) has been losing coolant maybe 2 oz every 2 days. No water on ground ever and water pump has solid rust film over whole pump, so I assumed it was losing water around pump shaft when running. This weekend it suddenly overheated, dash said check gages, it was just under red temp line and in minutes it stalled a half mile from home. an hour later it started, running rough but solid, so I drove it home. Changed water pump. Then I checked the oil dipstick, and it was orange foam not oil. Did I blow a head gasket? Can I change the heads with the engine in the vehicle?
larrykane
OUCH IS RIGHT!!!larrykane said:
Folks can I offer some FREE advice... the moment it overheats SHUT IT DOWN!!!
Don't keep driving a few minutes waiting for it to stall! (causing catastrophic damage)
Well it's probable you had a slow intake gasket leak.. unfortunately now you have a gusher!
Hopefully you did not blow a head gasket too, but it sounds like it to me.
(sorry don't mean to rub salt in the wound)
NEVER overheat the 4.3... they don't like it!
Coolant in the oil is the next (and final) disaster waiting to happen.
FYI: Sometimes when you lose enough coolant.. the temp gauges don't always accurately display you are going into meltdown! Temp is shooting up... shut it down! Small trouble can certainly lead to BIG trouble.
Sorry for your misfortune...
Good luck
x2, continuing to drive it is the absolute worst thing you can do, esp up hillMmusicman said:
Sure sounds like it from over here.Mmusicman said:
Nor any other engine.Mmusicman said:
FYI: Sometimes when you lose enough coolant.. the temp gauges don't always accurately display you are going into meltdown! Temp is shooting up... shut it down! Small trouble can certainly lead to BIG trouble.[/quote]Mmusicman said:
x2 too for two.
There are water passages in the head/intake. Often the intake gaskets will leak coolant into the oil. Coolant in the oil could be either intake or head gaskets (or something cracked), replacing head gaskets requires replacing intake gaskets anyway.
Ports in order: water fuel fuel fuel water
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Ports in order: water fuel fuel fuel water
Ok so I found a shop that both did a compression check and replaced manifold gasket for 418.00, including, labor, parts, oil, flush, coolant etc, that's cheap, I think. Got the van back, runs well, however now there is a very noticeable ticking sound. When the intake gasket was blown it would still start and I drove the now cold engine about 200 feet to the tow truck spot in our drive, and although it ran rough due to gasket leak there was no ticking. Now there is. The sound is loudest when heard from the exterior and just above the passenger side front tire. I would have thought it's a rocker arm or lifter noise but it seems to be physically lower in engine. Weird thing is that it only occurs AFTER the van warms up. engine dead quiet when cold. Oil pressure 60 when cold, 25-40 when warmed up.
My limited theories;
1- when they did the motor oil flush they forgot about it and left it run too long and toasted something
2-a bearing got toasted when it overheated (but it was quiet on the day of the failure when I limped it home which was a quick 1/3 mile drive)
3- oil pump?
Here's the thing- maybe an important clue. The tone of the ticking is not muffled like it might be if it was coming from deep in the engine..it is bright toned like rocker arms but don't they always tick most BEFORE warming up, not later, right?
Any Ideas? I could post a recording of the noise.
My limited theories;
1- when they did the motor oil flush they forgot about it and left it run too long and toasted something
2-a bearing got toasted when it overheated (but it was quiet on the day of the failure when I limped it home which was a quick 1/3 mile drive)
3- oil pump?
Here's the thing- maybe an important clue. The tone of the ticking is not muffled like it might be if it was coming from deep in the engine..it is bright toned like rocker arms but don't they always tick most BEFORE warming up, not later, right?
Any Ideas? I could post a recording of the noise.
Well, just in my humble life long mechanics opinion, you wasted money trying to patch it with intake gaskets, as you seem to have driven it until it seized. Smarter people here may respond.
Have you stuck a mechanic's stethoscope over there to see exactly what or where it is? Sound from an engine can bounce and travel like you wouldn't believe, so it's really hard to pinpoint without help.
It's possible it's a lifter and it's also possible it's spark plug wires snapping (mist with water in the dark - if you see fireworks, replace the wires).
It's also possible you wiped bearings with the coolant in the oil. Not when you moved it the 200 feet, but while it was leaking prior to you noticing.
It's possible it's a lifter and it's also possible it's spark plug wires snapping (mist with water in the dark - if you see fireworks, replace the wires).
It's also possible you wiped bearings with the coolant in the oil. Not when you moved it the 200 feet, but while it was leaking prior to you noticing.
No.. I doubt it. Damage was likely already done.larrykane said:
* Be sure it's not just an exhaust tick... which will typically tick loudest only when accelerating.
* Lifter ticks are constant, regardless of load, acceleration or deceleration.
* Bearing ticks vary drastically with load, typically ticking loudest at part throttle under light or no load.
Lifter and bearing ticks may sound different cold vs hot.. oil pressures change, parts expand with heat too.
Damage could have been done during engine severely overheating.
Damage could have been done during forcing hydro-lock.
You have oil pressure... it's not your oil pump.
Sidenote: I developed a "tick" in my 92 at 282K miles.. oil pressure was strong.
Tick barely there, varied with rpm and load, and got louder over time.
About a month later the tick had turned into a knock.
I pulled the pan and discovered a broken piston skirt and burnt wrist-pin.
Not sure which fatal problem was causing the knock.
I trashed the engine and installed a V8.
I say this because ticks can come from various places, and failures.
Internal engine ticks will usually get worse.
Determine what kind of tick it is.
Even a simple lifter tick "can" be catastrophic, if a cam-lobe was damaged.
Maybe you'll get lucky and it could be a simple rocker adjustment... worth a try if it turns out to be this.
Today coming home from work, I saw a woman blow a hose sitting at a light.. fluid spewing everywhere. I'm sure she didn't notice as she drove off.. leaving a trail... heading for certain trouble. I wish I could have told her. No doubt if she catches it quickly, she may find herself with nothing but a towing bill and a repair for a hose. If she keeps driving overheated however.. she may be looking at extensive damage. NEVER KEEP DRIVING ON AN OVER-HEATED ENGINE! (sorry.. my public service announcement for any else reading this)
Fingers crossed on this one...
Here is my idea about the clicking. Since water got into the oil when it was running with the bad gasket, the water circulated throughout the engine and some got into one or more or the hydraulic lifters on the RH side of the engine. When the oil was changed some water stayed in the lifter. Now when the engine runs everything is normal until that bit of water becomes steam. At that point the pressure in the lifter that still has some water in it goes way up and the clicking sound happens. If that is correct then eventually that water will evaporate and be replaced by oil and if no other damage has been done the clicking will disappear. I suggest babying it for awhile. Do another oil change real soon. You may get lucky. I am not a life long mechanic, but I know if your engine is running as well as you say, after just an intake manifold gasket change, it never seized.
Would really like to know if the clicking goes away. When I said "if no other damage has been done" that is a very big IF. And my notion that the clicking is caused by water/steam in a lifter is a wild guess, based mostly on your report that it is quiet until the engine heats up. It may be a rediculous idea.
1 coolant into the engine is bad
2 If engine "locked up" or seized,really bad, only 2 causes, severe overheating or coolant into a cylinder--hydro static lock.
3 Ticking noise can come from exhaust gasket burning out. However, usually gets really loud fast, with today's exhaust systems
4 Coolant can possibly wear out a lifter, but more likely something else in engine shall fail first
Cam,rod and crank bearings are soft, and degrade very fast if there is coolant in the oil.This is what usually happens.
2 If engine "locked up" or seized,really bad, only 2 causes, severe overheating or coolant into a cylinder--hydro static lock.
3 Ticking noise can come from exhaust gasket burning out. However, usually gets really loud fast, with today's exhaust systems
4 Coolant can possibly wear out a lifter, but more likely something else in engine shall fail first
Cam,rod and crank bearings are soft, and degrade very fast if there is coolant in the oil.This is what usually happens.
Just the fact you said "the engine stalled" is a dead giveaway. Having a coolant problem, and "engine stalled" means "locked up" very bad."An hour later" yep the engine was seized. You go from there.
Bob's right. I have NEVER had an engine STALL or lockup from over-heating.
I can't even imagine what it seriously takes to force an engine actually stop running.
Yes, engines will run with coolant in oil.. but to overheat enough to stall??
FYI: Water temp gauges do not read accurately when exposed only to air. They will read lower than actual temp, and only locally.
Typically they will no longer go full scale when overheating. If no coolant is flowing over them, they will only give you a partial "local" inaccurate reading of the temp at the sender, itself not what the rest of the internal engine is seeing. They just DON'T work well in air. In other words, with no coolant in system.. cylinder wall temps are going into severe meltdown, yet the sender on top of the manifold will have no idea. Just under the red mark was FAR from accurate... exhibited by the fact it actually stalled the engine.
Also as mentioned.. there's no telling what lubricity issues you'll have with coolant in oil, and how it will affect stressful moving parts.
And then finally there's that little issue of forced hydo-lock...
Poor little engine!
PS: Did you rule out exhaust tick?
It typically only ticks under load.
I can't even imagine what it seriously takes to force an engine actually stop running.
Yes, engines will run with coolant in oil.. but to overheat enough to stall??
FYI: Water temp gauges do not read accurately when exposed only to air. They will read lower than actual temp, and only locally.
Typically they will no longer go full scale when overheating. If no coolant is flowing over them, they will only give you a partial "local" inaccurate reading of the temp at the sender, itself not what the rest of the internal engine is seeing. They just DON'T work well in air. In other words, with no coolant in system.. cylinder wall temps are going into severe meltdown, yet the sender on top of the manifold will have no idea. Just under the red mark was FAR from accurate... exhibited by the fact it actually stalled the engine.
Also as mentioned.. there's no telling what lubricity issues you'll have with coolant in oil, and how it will affect stressful moving parts.
And then finally there's that little issue of forced hydo-lock...
Poor little engine!
PS: Did you rule out exhaust tick?
It typically only ticks under load.
A couple/few years after I sold my 98, it developed the LIM leak. The new owner took it to a shop and had the LIM gasket replaced, but it had developed a tick, turned out to be a lifter. So it's worth exploring.
I have caused my 2005 Astro to shutdown due to overheating two times. Very hot days, going up hill on the interstate with air conditioning on max. It was a control system shutdown of the engine, not a mechanical seizure. Wait a half hour to cool down, and then drive more reasonably and without the air conditioner on, for the grade and outside temperature, and everything is fine. The computer in a 2005 (and probably other years) can shut the engine down to prevent damage. The fact that the engine stopped does not necessarily mean it "locked up" or "seized".
If true (which I have no reason to doubt).. then this would be a VERY GOOD THING!N6KB said:
Good to know!
I doubt it, but it would be easy to test, throw the proper resistor in place of your temperature sensor and make the computer think the engine is at something crazy hot. I'm willing to bet that it doesn't shut downMmusicman said:
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