[noooby]

Hello Astro/Safari peeps.

I'm at a loss. 4 months ago, I had new KYB shocks installed, Hercules tires and a wheel alignment. New steeering idler arms also fitted.

Fast forward to the present and after 15000km (most of it towing our 3300lb trailer) I'm told all four tires need to be replaced due to cupping. I took the van into the tire shop because of excessive road noise. Turns out it was caused by the cupping.

Normal causes of cupping are bad shocks and the wheels being out of alignment. I'm going back to the original shop that did the work to see if they'll help me with a warranty claim against Hercules. Yeah right, like a tire company will pay out for cupping!

But before I drop money on new tires, does anyone have any random info that might help find out why these tires cupped so quickly? I do NOT want to be replacing tires every 15000km!

Cheers
Graham

 

[AstroWill]

All 4 in less than 10,000miles, that is insane. Make sure to keep documentation of alignment/shocks/balancing/rotation/etc were done, as well as when the tires were bought/installed. Looks like the warranty is 36months so hopefully they will take care of you. The only other thing could be tire pressure as I'm sure the tire shop would have told you if you had bent wheels.

Have any pictures of the cupping?

 

[Mmusicman]

They may "attempt" to invalidate the warranty if you've modified the suspension in any way.
But know this.. "body lift" does NOT alter alignment in any way whatsoever.
Suspension components are attached to subframe, which is not altered in any way.
You merely lift the body above subframe.
Shocks, steering, springs, alignment... all unaffected.

It's MOST likely an alignment issue (not shocks).
Worn steering and/or suspension components could certainly be suspect as well.
But if they were bad.. alignment shop would/should have told you.

Mine had some feathering/cupping going on (with relatively new front tires), and I quickly resolved it with alignment corrections. The problem since went away.

Do you have the specs for the alignment?
Do you have the warranty receipt?

Who determined the tires all needed replacement?

Did you originally see the trouble with fronts, and rotated them to rear?
All 4 in such a short time seems fairly unlikely.

Pictures?

 

[noooby]

They may "attempt" to invalidate the warranty if you've modified the suspension in any way.
But know this.. "body lift" does NOT alter alignment in any way whatsoever.
Suspension components are attached to subframe, which is not altered in any way.
You merely lift the body above subframe.
Shocks, steering, springs, alignment... all unaffected.

It's MOST likely an alignment issue (not shocks).
Worn steering and/or suspension components could certainly be suspect as well.
But if they were bad.. alignment shop would/should have told you.

Mine had some feathering/cupping going on (with relatively new front tires), and I quickly resolved it with alignment corrections. The problem since went away.

Do you have the specs for the alignment?
Do you have the warranty receipt?

Who determined the tires all needed replacement?

Did you originally see the trouble with fronts, and rotated them to rear?
All 4 in such a short time seems fairly unlikely.

Pictures?

I have the receipt for the work done and will be going to see them. Doesn't say what the alignment was, just that is was checked and was fine. Hmmmm.

While on our camping trip, I noticed that more and more road noise was being heard. Once I got to the next town, I went to an independent tire shop to ask about doing an early rotation to see if the noise was tires or diff (I also had the diff oil replaced and it looked pretty good. Made no difference to noise). Owner of tire shop came out to check the tires and instantly said three of the four had cupping. One rear tire did not have cupping. Rotated the tires anyway but no real change to the noise. Not surprising.

I did not take photos unfortunately. Best way I can describe it is that each tread block is higher at the front than at the back of each tire. So as you run your hand around the inboard circumference, it feels bumpy.

I've been running stock 35psi pressure. Wondering if bumping that to 38 or 40 might have helped.

And of course the van is now in storage on the East Coast and I'm back on the West Coast. Just to make things really fun. Ugh.

 

[noooby]

Oh and I will be getting a couple more opinions when I get back to the van next summer. But the noise inside is insane. Has a quiet (er) sound around 105kph but really howls at 80kph and 110kph.

 

[Mmusicman]

Doesn't say what the alignment was, just that is was checked and was fine. Hmmmm

Doesn't sound like an actual alignment to me.
How was it "checked"? What were the specs?
Alignment is likely your trouble.

Cupping is not faulty tire wear.
Tire company is not going to take responsibility for bad alignment.
Sounds like you made an expensive assumption and an unfortunate mistake.

I've been running stock 35psi pressure.

Are they stock type and size tires?
Can you give specific make, model, and size of tire?

 

[Ruh-Roh]

Would cross-rotating help even out the wear?

 

[ehbrown1]

9 out of 10 times, front end alignment problem. It's not the fault of the tire manufacturer and they won't warrant them with how they were damaged. If you explain the situation and they're in a good mood, they might pro-rate them for you. The tires only do what the vehicle tells them to do. If you have a "real" alignment check, you will find camber and probably toe are out of spec.

If the wear is all on the inside of the tire, you have a negative camber adjustment tilting the wheels in at the top, resulting in the tires riding more on the inside tread. Easy quick, albeit not as accurate test is to park the van on a level surface, take a 24" level and check for vertical level on each tire. Excessive toe-in, front of tires tilted in towards center of the vehicle will also contribute and make the problem worse. Measure distance from center tread on front of the tire and compare to the same tread on the rear of the tire. I believe spec is 1/8" toe-in.

Check all front end components including shocks, springs, bushings, ball joints, center link, tie rods, hub bearings and tire balance as well. Even check the power steering box for excessive play. All can contribute to the problem! Towing a trailer also takes weight off the front wheels allowing them to move around even more. Have a reputable shop who guarantees their work correct the problems and perform a proper alignment instead of rubber stamping everything as ok. I always used Meineke as they are very reasonable and their warranties carry all over the country.

If the tires are cupped severely, then they should be replaced. You may be able to remount (cupping facing out), rotate and even slightly overinflate them to take pressure off the outer edges of the tires if you're strapped for cash. But fix the problem(s) first!!!