[Mmusicman]

Well, most of the work is unhooking all the stuff from the engine! You have to do all that regardless of which way you choose to go. The grill comes off easy enough. The crossmember above the radiator unbolted very easily... everything 13mm and easy to get to. Shroud and radiator, easy. That leaves the front wide open! As I said, no need to pull the bumper, although that doesn't look all that difficult either.

Again, the hardest (and messiest) part was all the wiring and stuff attached to the engine itself.

Since I did most of the work in my garage, I completely ruled out lifting the body. It looks like too much work, plus I didn't have clearance to lift the van either. It clearly looks like a two man job, and I work alone. Also, NO place to store the entire subframe with engine on it after it all comes out, which has to be rolled somewhere. And then, you're still going to have to lift the engine off of it anyway.

No, out the front is simple and clean... just pop the engine on a stand and your done.

Probably the one major advantage of lifting the body would be keeping the A/C system in tact and charged. I had to open the system and pull the condenser, so I removed the compressor and attached lines too. It wasn't really that bad, and I have everything to recharge it.

I'll have plenty of photos of the V8 going in!

Here's the front of the motor after you pull the radiator, shroud, and fan:

Here's the unbelievable MESS from the back side (before I pulled it)

 

[WoodButcher]

One thing of particular interest to me are the engine mounts, If I understand correctly the mounts from the v8 are used on the motor and the bottom portion bolted to the frame are from the astro just swapped, drivers to passenger and mounted on a flat plate that moves them forward 3" or so. I'd make this plate myself if I could find the dimensions. If you use this method would you trace the plates on a sheet of paper and scan/ upload it to your photo gallery?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390861805125?ss ... 1423.l2661

 

[Mmusicman]

Save yourself a lot of grief, and buy them already made! They are adjustable, which will probably make a huge difference at show time!

(they are very high quality stamped steel now)

Here is what I got: http://jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_Astr ... ounts.html

 

[Mmusicman]

By the way... here is a photo of the donor 350 motor (before cleanup), with a few years worth of neglect!

Since this photo was taken, the engine has been completely cleaned up, all new seals & gaskets, high volume oil pump, chrome covers, dress up kit, etc. Performance goodies include Erson Stage II cam, gear drive, Edelbrock Performer intake, Holly 750 carb, Hedmen shorty headers, MagnaFlow dual 2 1/2 full stainless exhaust system.

Just want to show how it looked before! Ugh!

 

[icebrrg3rd]

WB, I did the body lift/sub-frame out method, but unlike Mmusicman I had the space to put the sub-frame, and access to a pole barn for the van which was high enough to lift the body w/o hitting anything (didn't use it as it was a nice week, little to no rain). I also was installing a 5-speed and needed the tranny out too, plus an empty engine bay for installing a clutch pedal, cutting out a hole for the shifter, and reworking the tranny crossmember for the mount location. So I needed to do the sub-frame removal method.

If I was just doing the engine, I think the "out the front" method would be a better choice if you don't have room. However, I do like the fact that with the sub-frame out, you can have the engine completely buttoned up before installing it.

+1 on the jags that run motor mounts. However, the stock V-6 bolt that goes thru the mount and bushing (orange arrow) was too short with the added thickness of the thick steel plate (2-3 thread engagement in the nut, not cool), but the bolts from the V-8 mounts were long enough.

BTW Mmusicman, got any shots of the dressed-up engine? I see you're running a carb, why not stick with TBI (or were you CPI)? And did you re-use that thermostat outlet or are you going to switch to the van's one? The van one is almost straight up out of the manifold, I re-used the stock upper hose with it.

-Andrew

 

[Mmusicman]

I see you're running a carb, why not stick with TBI (or were you CPI)? And did you re-use that thermostat outlet or are you going to switch to the van's one? The van one is almost straight up out of the manifold, I re-used the stock upper hose with it.

Andrew, there are several reasons why I'm running a carbureted engine...

1) The engine is a 1970, and is already carbureted. It has a nice high performance Edelbrock aluminum intake... perfectly matched to the Holly carb. It's a hot-rod engine.
2) Nothing fits. The TBI unit does not fit the carbureted manifold, nor does the V6 TBI manifold fit the V8.
3) The 350 runs so unbelievably awesome, I have NO intention of changing anything!

I'm old school... simple works for me! No need for computers, or all the crap that messes up the performance and operation of a good engine. I'd have to go find and buy a V8 TBI manifold, swap manifolds, install TBI unit, install O2 sensor (and any other possible sensors) and then there might be a chance that something would still need to be reprogrammed for a V8? No thanks.

The thermostat outlet I intend to use is a chrome stock replacement.. aimed more forward in typical fashion. I haven't really looked at my hose options yet... might just use a simple flex hose or high performance aftermarket.

By the way... I see in your photo what looks to be an answer to a question I had regarding the harmonic balancer. It looks like you were able to just mount the serpentine pulley on the V8 balancer. I wasn't sure if it would be positioned correctly on a V8 vs V6 pulley, or if bolt holes lined up too. I just haven't got that far yet...

 

[icebrrg3rd]

Well, my V-8 was from a '91, so it already had the serpentine belt, altho it had different mounting for the accessories. So that harmonic & pulley was already on the V-8, but all the accessories are from the V-6, but I did re-use the water pump & it's pulley. I would think that the V-6 and V-8 harmonics would be different, as they balance out different pulses for their specific cylinder count. But I am far away from an expert so don't go on my opinions.

And on the Holley, glad it runs great, my only V-8 carb experience was with a rottenchester, and I later found out it wasn't even set up for my V-8 (guy must have slapped on one he had lying around), so the TBI is better in my opinion, yet not complicated or expensive like CPI or later fuel injection systems. However, I found out I have the swirl port heads, a lousy design based on my (after the fact) research, so I should've sourced Vortec heads and manifold for some real gains...

So will there be any issues running a carb and getting the van's computer to function? Not sure how much the computer interacts with the engine controls, and not having the TBI & related junk there will it throw codes? And is your transmission electronic?

-Andrew

 

[WoodButcher]

Updates?
oke:

 

[Mmusicman]

Well... sorry to say I'm not moving very fast! It's 95+ degrees out every day and I'm not feeling very motivated.. although I'm doing some of the current work in my garage. The middle of July is NOT when I had intended to do this work!

While I have the engine out, I have been prepping the empty engine compartment... pressure cleaned it last week (along with all the accy's and brackets), and today I replaced the motor mounts and upper control arm bushings. This is SO much easier to do when there is no engine in the way!

Regarding the motor mounts... I had originally purchased a set of cheap "Anchor" motor mounts... got them from Summit for $5/ea. Apparently most of the local stores carry them too. When I finally pulled the old mounts out and went to put these in, I realized how cheap and crude they looked. The old mounts even looked better, but have over 100,000+ miles on them. I did some research and found a lot of complaints about the cheap Anchor mounts and premature failures. Also discovered that other dealers were putting their name on the same cheap crap.

I decided it wasn't worth the risk of having the new cheap mounts fail early on me, so I bit the bullet and purchased a set of OEM mounts from the dealer. I got them for $53/ea. That's certainly a lot more than the $4.95 I paid for the low budget crap. But I can sleep now knowing I got a quality mount that should hold up for some time. Didn't want to chance early failure with the added load of the V8.

Of course, I have the "JTR" custom stamped V8 conversion mounts for the engine side! Painted and ready to go!

Here are some photos taken this weekend.

Anchor vs GM

Engine compartment with new mounts installed

Closeup

Sorry I don't have something more exciting to post yet.

Once the control arms are back in tomorrow, my next step will be to clean up the wiring and make final preparations for the V8. Most of the factory TBI system wiring will not be needed any longer. I will replace loom and possibly re-route what I do need. I may completely cut out and remove the wiring I don't need.. since I have no intention of ever putting the V6 back in. This should be completed this weekend or next.

Next weekend, I also plan do final prep on the V8... and I expect to drop it in!

Stay tuned....

 

[Mmusicman]

While the engine is out of the way... it's a good time to swap out bad upper control arm bushings! The old rotted rubber has 20 years on it... and 282,000 miles!

Removing the old control arms with nothing in the way is a piece of cake!

 

[Mmusicman]

Well, you haven't heard much from me on this project as we slowly move forward dealing with the south Florida summer heat. But I made some real progress recently!

The final preparation the 1970 motor needed before install was the drilling and tapping of the PS cylinder head for the 92 serpentine system accy bracket. The stock 1970 head only came with only one hole, so another would be needed. Fortunately, there was a raised boss where the mounting hole is needed. (the 3rd hole would not be possible where the head curved)

Seen here with a mark where hole will be drilled on the stock head:

Accy bracket (this side holds the alternator and pulleys):

Initially I was concerned about hitting the water jacket. I took measurements to determine how far I might want to drill. The head with one single hole was .7 deep, the heads with 3 holes were all .9 deep. My goal was to drill .9 deep.

The hefty and thick bracket would serve as the template for alignment and drilling of the hole. It was important to temporarily sleeve the large bracket holes to get an accurately centered drill point. The sleeve and thick bracket would also allow me to drill straight in as well, since I would be doing it by hand.

Remove bracket to double check my work before I continue:

At first I drilled and tapped for a 3/8 stud. I bought a long 5/16 drill. I had not hit the water jacket at .7 depth, but did hit it at .8. At this point I drilled completely through. This turned out to be a good thing, as it would allow me to tap deeper threads.

After I started shopping for studs, I decided to go overkill with a 7/16 tap and stud, since I would only be using 2 of the 3 mounting points. The hefty bracket has over-sized holes already, perfect for the larger studs. The cylinders were very easy to drill and tap.

A drill extension (which I fabricated) was needed for the larger 23/64 drill bit :

The Harbor Freight tap and die kit (China) was a huge waste! I was struggling turning the tap so hard, I expected it could break, despite oiling. I aborted using the garbage tap, and purchased an Irwin 7/16 "bottoming tap" from Ace, which I would need anyway for the first original blind hole. I tapped the 2nd hole was tapped all the way through. Turns out, the new tap cut the head like butter!

I wanted to use larger studs for extra strength, again since I would only be using 2 of the 3 mounting points. The 3rd mounting point would not be possible, since the head was curved at that point. The good news is that the bracket still rests firmly against part of the head at this point, and is being pulled toward the head at this point anyway, so I don't consider it critical. The PS bracket only holds the alternator and pulleys, and in addition to the over-sized studs, rests firmly pulling against the block as well. (The DS accy bracket (A/C and PS) bolt up without mods)

I found the PERFECT studs! These 4.350" ARP cylinder head studs are made from 8740 chromoly steel with 190,000 psi tensile strength.. thread-rolled to Mil-S-8879 specs... and should be way MORE than adequate for the job! Nothing like OVERKILL!

It should be noted that I found many forums with discussions about hitting the water jacket. But I was happy to note that the lower right water pump bolt is ALSO in the water jacket... completely normal! I never even noticed before, have never used sealant in the past, and never had one leak over all the years I've installed pumps. Despite that, I have procured the proper thread sealant and expect to have NO issue whatsoever.

The job came out perfect and I am very delighted! This was the LAST thing I needed to do before dropping in the V8!

 

[Mmusicman]

Happy Labor Day! It's ready... today I'm doing my final prep work before dropping it in!

As stated, it's a low mileage engine from a 1970 Chevy Impala... and a while back I had added an Erson Stage II cam, Edelbrock intake, Holly carb, gear drive, custom 2.02 valve heads, hedman shorty headers, HEI ignition, hi-volume oil pump, new gaskets and seals, etc. This little V8 runs unbelievable! Tons of torque... goes "rumpity rump" on idle and "rump rump" cruising around the neighborhood up to about 1500 rpms. Then it smooths out really strong! I have a FULL stainless MagnaFlow DUAL exhaust system to go behind the headers.

I decided not to re-paint, just clean it up... since I figure most of it will not be visible behind brackets and accessories. It's really clean, and I replaced all the rusty trim with new! It ran so unbelievable awesome in my Chevelle, I didn't want to change ANYTHING else!

Here's a photo of the 350 motor. Not real pretty or fancy... just the things that count!

Here is a shot of the amazing JTR V8 swap brackets! High quality STAMPED steel.. and completely adjustable!

The only thing I can't figure out is if I'm supposed to use the one stock "spacer plate" that is used against the block with the stock motor-mount shells? I assume I'm not supposed to use it since the new bracket appears to not only adjust from front to back, but from left to right as well.

 

[WoodButcher]

:thumbup:

 

[Zebediah III]

No spacers in mine. Same mounts on the '03.
The only place I had issues was fan shroud wouldn't fit without a
lot of trimming.

 

[Mmusicman]

As opposed as I am to electric fans... I have a nice shrouded Black Magic electric-fan (from another hot rod project) I intend to use. I also have the thicker stock radiator, which always ran cool.. as well as the motor.

But I will make observation on what mods would have been required to keep the stock fan...even if I don't use it. Considering how much closer the fan will now be from the engine to the radiator, a good electric fan seems to be a good choice.

 

[WoodButcher]

Absolutely. Even without the V8 I found the elec fan to be a benefit in my '97. If for nothing else but the ease of repair to the front of the engine without that damn shroud,,,,,

 

[DRZ]

Move the lower frame motor mount forward 4 13/32" if using V8 motor mounts. If using the V6 engine motor mounts, change them from side to side and bolt to the V8 block and then you only have to drill the frame motor mount holes 3" farther forward. ( the three little holes in my pattern)

 

[markmitch]

I have done a few V8 Astro's and have never swapped motor mounts from one side to the other? However I made the block mounts myself instead of buying the mounts so maybe thats why?

 

[DRZ]

I have done a few V8 Astro's and have never swapped motor mounts from one side to the other? However I made the block mounts myself instead of buying the mounts so maybe that's why?

Yeah, that's just one reason my plan is good. If you aren't up grading the frame mounts at the same time you don't have to buy anything and it looks factory instead of "0ne size fits all" JTR etc.

 

[Mmusicman]

The JTR mounts are awesome! Not expensive.. but worth every dollar! Fully adjustable too!

PS: They worked perfectly! (you'll see in next post)