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Burl -- 2003 GMC Safari soon to be camper

11K views 106 replies 11 participants last post by  dcsleeper 
#1 ·
Hey all, picked up this guy about 2-3 weeks ago and it's mostly been sitting as summer things have been taking over. I've been slowly picking up on some issues as I drive it more and scheming.

Picked it up in denver from a used car dealer, was his personal ride. It seems his plan was to rice it out. Was a rebuild from salvage, passenger door and front quarter panel have been replaced and painted to match. 3.73 rear / no LSD, AWD. So far, it seems pretty much everything they did is terrible. I think they outsourced the door/panel work so that actually seems pretty OK. The headlights don't fit. The aftermarket grill is held in place with wood screws. There was a rear sway bar that didn't fit at all and was loose when i bought it and has marred up some of the lines on the rear axle but i think i got it out of there before too much damage. The seller was stunned that this was there (and this was a car dealer???). the price was right though, and low miles due to the salvage (118k at purchase), clean underneath, and the good gear ratio in the rear axle.



Hanging in the driveway with my current transit connect camper.


It had some terrible aftermarket headlights and signals that don't fit AT ALL. I have reinstalled the original signals, but am wondering if anyone can recommend some that would actually fit? it looks kinda lame with nice clear headlights and fogged/yellowed signals.

Took a trip to the local pick n pull within the first week or so and got a DIC installed. not too bad but spent a lot of time chasing loose connections in the harnesses :banghead:



also picked up some seat bases from a power seat model & am planning to install some seat swivels.

planned:
2-3" lift
swivel seats
rip out the back & camper-ize
larger tires
roof rack
install aftermarket LSD in rear

stretch plan:
some sort of 4x4 conversion
electrical system for the camper setup

Issues so far:
throwing a P0101 code, seems to only happen under heavy acceleration / load -- as an example: i live a few thousand feet vertical up a canyon. Drove down about 40mins and no code at all. On the way back up, got the code again within 10 minutes. I have already changed the air filter and it had the dirtiest one i've ever seen in a vehicle so i'm wondering if it's just a dirty MAF (still getting code after changing). going to do some signal readings to see if that is all lining up. check for vacuum leaks. if that all looks good, i'll probably turn to MAF cleaner next. any suggestions?

driver armrest flop

squeaky/sagging doors. already got the driver side with a floor jack, just need to hit the passenger i think.

got a big box of fluids and going through one by one. oil change on the list, checking t-case fluid, diff fluids. spark plugs as well which it looks like should be an adventure.
 
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#78 ·
Rod's Trucks said:
Yes, those very cold temps WILL negatively affect battery life.
Rod J
Yeah, i sorta figured. nothing would be worse than the heater cutting out on a below 0 night because the battery got too cold to keep feeding it power! I think as long as it fits behind that wheel well, then it shouldn't really impede on any sort of usable space anyhow. I'm a little ways away from actually trying to fit it in the vehicle but will update as i start in on that process.
 
#79 ·
I wouldn't worry about the temperatures, they are not like Lithium batteries where you can't charge them below freezing. Plus if you put it inside you have to worry about adding a box and venting to the outside(yes VRLA batteries have to be vented to the outside). If you mount it outside then you don't have to worry about that.

The temperature range of a typ AGM would be -67°F (-55°C) to 122°F (50°C) for storage when charged, and -40°F (-40°C) to 160°F (71°C) operating range

That 100lb battery is a beast though, I'm sure they have a manual for it somewhere online and would be worth finding/requesting.
 
#80 ·
Pmou,
Yeah, i sorta figured. nothing would be worse than the heater cutting out on a below 0 night because the battery got too cold to keep feeding it power!

That would not happen ( fail to deliver...), but the capacity would be reduced some. Car batteries work fine at those temps, but need to be in good condition and kept charged.
There are on-line references to that very application. It is not a huge factor, but something to keep in mind if yoiu expect to be working near the normally rated capacity. Also, discharging a battery does generate a small amount of heat, but it is minimal; and nothing like when it is being charged.
I am trying to visualize doing any maintenance on a 100 Lbs. battery, while on my back, under the vehicle; unless there is an access hatch from the top. If underneath, I would need a floor jack to lift it in or out of any sort of mounting configuration I can envision.
Rod J
 
#81 ·
#82 ·
Please also note that 115AHr rating was based upon a 20 Hr discharge cycle, and at 77 degrees F. (25 degrees C)
That is not a very likely scenario for most applications we might have.
I have a couple of very similar C&D UPS batteries (12-475FR's )for radio purposes. They are very good batteries, and will last a long time if one takes good care of them.
Rod J
Issaquah, WA
 
#83 ·
I've been having a hard time trying to figure out what type of battery setup to go with, since I'll be doing plenty of winter camping too.
Seems like agm and lithium both are weak in the cold in their own ways. I don't want to add battery heaters but that may be necessary, in which case might as well go lithium so have way more usable ah for the same size battery.
 
#84 ·
I mean every RV up until recently has been using some type of lead acid battery in an external compartment. But that is changing.

If you are going to be using it constantly, Lithium is the way to go for the price per cycle, space consumed and usable output. There are plenty of lists of pros and cons but I think Lithium's time is here, and is the way I'm going from here on out.

100Ah rated AGM is 50Ah usable ~80lbs and takes ~5-6hrs to completely charge from 50%DoD.
100Ah usable lithium is ~25lbs and can be charged a LOT quicker.
 
#85 ·
This is where my brain starts to turn to mush hahaha. do you have an example of one of those Lithium batteries? like price/size? Do you need a different controller to charge them? I was hoping to just run an isolator from the alternator as well to be able to charge the battery while driving, limiting reliance on strictly solar. Would the raw alternator current be too dirty for a lithium battery? I agree lithium ion is the way to go in theory, but this battery was $40 vs $500-$1000 for what I am seeing for an equivalent lithium battery (50-100ah). I don't see how I can justify almost 10x - 20x the price.

Re: my possible lithium ion source, I worked at a bike shop that sells e-bikes and has to warranty e-bikes batteries. unfortunately they cannot ship them back to the manufacturer as you need a special shipping license to be able to ship lithium ion. so they are stuck paying to dispose of them. i picked one up and tore it down and it was actually just 30 or so 18650 cells in there, with one or two of them undervolting causing the whole array to fail. I was planning to harvest a bunch of these and form them into arrays with a smart controller, it looks like you can buy these all in one online for like a 3s4p array which I think would let you run/charge from 12v.
 
#87 ·
pmou,
In addition to a pair of old C&D UPS 100AHr batteries ( I keep thinking they will fail soon), this is what I have a pair of ( from a different supplier, but identical units):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-12V-60AH ... Swg75f8bju

After buying the first one, and being very happy with it, I managed to purchase the second one, less the charger module. They are about 13-14 LBS each.
I use these to run a bunch of amateur radio equipment when out on portable operations.
The terminal voltage is a bit high to charge from the automotive source, but if you do not need it to be done fast, I think it would work, but probably not at idle, and not as fast.
I have not tried it yet, but you still need to go thru the built-in BMS controller, in order to get the maximum life from the pack. If I want/need to charge them from the vehicle supply, I actually go thru a small DC-AC inverter, and then use the supplied charger module. It is a bit clumsy, and a bit less efficient, but it works.
When in the field, I usually have a small Honda EU-1000 generator with me. That runs anything I need, (small electric heater, small microwave, battery charging, outdoor lighting; but not all at the same time) if I plan to be out for more than a couple of days.
Rod J
 
#88 ·
Thanks for the suggestion Rod -- I like that setup. i think that could work well for me, esp since I could then add more later without a lot of difficulty if I decided to add more accessories.

I was looking at something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-3S7P-Lithi ... 890.l49292

to re-purpose the cells I might be able to harvest.

or here's a smaller one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3S-12V-18650-L ... 890.l49292

It seems like this would produce a similar (obviously DIY and limited by my electrical ability, as well as battery health) result to the batteries you suggested.
 
#89 ·
pmou said:
This is where my brain starts to turn to mush hahaha. do you have an example of one of those Lithium batteries? like price/size? Do you need a different controller to charge them? I was hoping to just run an isolator from the alternator as well to be able to charge the battery while driving, limiting reliance on strictly solar. Would the raw alternator current be too dirty for a lithium battery? I agree lithium ion is the way to go in theory, but this battery was $40 vs $500-$1000 for what I am seeing for an equivalent lithium battery (50-100ah). I don't see how I can justify almost 10x - 20x the price.

Re: my possible lithium ion source, I worked at a bike shop that sells e-bikes and has to warranty e-bikes batteries. unfortunately they cannot ship them back to the manufacturer as you need a special shipping license to be able to ship lithium ion. so they are stuck paying to dispose of them. i picked one up and tore it down and it was actually just 30 or so 18650 cells in there, with one or two of them undervolting causing the whole array to fail. I was planning to harvest a bunch of these and form them into arrays with a smart controller, it looks like you can buy these all in one online for like a 3s4p array which I think would let you run/charge from 12v.
I know, it gets kinda complicated. The problem with using more than 50% of your AGM capacity is that you will shorten it's life. I mean you could drain it to 100% capacity every day but it's going to have a very, very short life measured in months instead of years. Really it likes to be discharged the least amount possible to provide the most cycles :)
Plus it takes a LONG time to charge to 100%, and if you don't charge to 100% every single day it slowly damages the battery and reduces the capacity even more.
Take a look at the Lifeline AGM Technical manual, it's a great resource even if for just a general overview.
Charge Time = [(DOD/100) x Rated Capacity (Ah) ÷ Output of Charger (Amps)] + Absorb Time.
100Ah battery at 40% DOD with a 25A charger would take: [(40/100) x 100 ÷ 25] + 3 = 4.6 hours to reach full charge.
10A charger: [(40/100) x 100 ÷ 10] + 3 = 7 hours to reach full charge.
But if you can keep getting them at $40 a pop...very tempting indeed.
Usage does make a huge difference as well, if you are only using 20% capacity twice a month VS cycling them 40% 365 days a year.

I have one of these https://amzn.to/3cbRGda 100Ah usable capacity, small, light, doesn't need venting, won't be damaged if not charged to 100% every day. I would actually like to install this one https://amzn.to/36ckYF0 but with the 100Ah I can easily swap it into my Tiger for testing. It will be a few years until I will know about the longevity of this particular battery.

Being able to use your own cells and your own BMS would allow unique mounting options. Definitely something I'm looking at for the future.
 
#90 ·
ok well, wow - whats been going on here?

Mostly a lot of life transitions and skiing and biking so I've been trying to leave the van in one piece...

That said, I dug into all the batteries and assembled my first battery with a 3s7p case that I found on ebay. ~24ah and i'd estimate maybe 3-5 pounds. Have 4 more cases and at this point enough 18650 cells to assemble one more. Also have some 21700 cells which measure 5000mAh each that I might try to put together outside of a case with the same BMS i'm using for hte 18650s - should make about a 35Ah battery I think with those.

Some pics attached.
 

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#91 ·
This last weekend, I dug into the LIMG and am also installing an electric fan on the way out.

some notes from along the way:

- definitely plan to have new bolts on hand, i did not at first and ended up running out to buy some. Between marred threads from rattling around and coolant build up, there's no way those low torques would have been accurate on the old bolts.
- decided to do new lower and upper rad hoses. Also ended up cutting the heater bypass hose because that thing was insanely stuck.
- a remote hose clamp plier is a godsend
- Tightening torques are nearly impossible to find in the factory manual, looking these up ahead of time would be a good call.
- Buying some different gasket stuff with an actual nozzle that you can cut to size is really helpful ( i bought permatex ultra black). instead of using the stuff that comes in the felpro kit.
- the lower bolt on the AC compressor that you need to loosen to scoot it forward is a PITA on an AWD. I ended up managing to reach it with about 16" of extensions, a wobble, and a short 13mm socket from just to the DS of the from CV joint closest to the diff.
- I was able to get the fan to break using a strap wrench on the pulley jammed up into the AC pulley + a huge 36mm fan wrench and a good solid smack from a hammer. probably up there as one of the harder parts of this whole thing honestly. preload the strap wrench as much as you can, pull out all the stretch, then a hammer hit
- A shop vac with some precise attachments (my firend had some little extensions that are about 1/2" diameter) are basically necessary unless you plan to get your engine spotless before this. I had a bunch of grim inadvertently fall around the balance shaft. I would say this is just about impossible to avoid completely.
- I don't see how you could remove one of these newer injector spiders without breaking at least one injector when they are this old + crumbly.

I'm going to do a coolant flush as well after all this, hadn't done that yet and there was a ton of dex sludge around once i actually was able to see what's in there.

should have the e-fan buttoned up by the end of the week and i'll have pics to follow soon after. then a couple flushes and test drive time!

also, pics:
 

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#92 ·
I love the DIY battery setup!

pmou said:
- Tightening torques are nearly impossible to find in the factory manual, looking these up ahead of time would be a good call.
In the GM Techline eSI Digital Factory Service Manual(see links in sig) they are virtually all on one page. I will attach it here:
View attachment 03_bolt_specs.pdf

Great tips!
pmou said:
- A shop vac with some precise attachments (my firend had some little extensions that are about 1/2" diameter) are basically necessary unless you plan to get your engine spotless before this. I had a bunch of grim inadvertently fall around the balance shaft. I would say this is just about impossible to avoid completely.
I like to use an old clothing to block most of it, then tape the edges. Once you are done a few strips of masking tape across the whole thing allows you to easily remove the clothing/rags without loosing any of the crap collected in the old shirts or whatever you used.
 
#93 ·
AstroWill said:
pmou said:
have one of these https://amzn.to/3cbRGda 100Ah usable capacity, small, light, doesn't need venting, won't be damaged if not charged to 100% every day. I would actually like to install this one https://amzn.to/36ckYF0 but with the 100Ah I can easily swap it into my Tiger for testing. It will be a few years until I will know about the longevity of this particular battery.
The ampere time lithiums are a fantastic value, but the bms inside will not cut charging below 32 degrees. A safeguard should be installed to prevent charging below that temperature or you will smoke the cells. Although they have been great with warranty claims with me in the past.
 
#94 ·
pmou said:
here's what I found inside minus all the fancy circuitry. you could like also leave it intact with all the smart charging circuits, but then you are restricted on input/output voltage.

i think this was a 36v / 460wh battery in its original application.
Do you know what chemistry those cells are? There are a few that can be found in e-bike packs that I would rather not have in one of my vans. When they go off there is not much you can do beside watch them burn, (I worked at an E-bike
battery factory and we set a few off.). Great job repurposing those cells, you should look into the snap together cell holders for those 21700's you can basically build any form factor you need to fit some of the odd shapes of the van.
 
#95 ·
Vanteriors said:
pmou said:
here's what I found inside minus all the fancy circuitry. you could like also leave it intact with all the smart charging circuits, but then you are restricted on input/output voltage.

i think this was a 36v / 460wh battery in its original application.
Do you know what chemistry those cells are? There are a few that can be found in e-bike packs that I would rather not have in one of my vans. When they go off there is not much you can do beside watch them burn, (I worked at an E-bike
battery factory and we set a few off.). Great job repurposing those cells, you should look into the snap together cell holders for those 21700's you can basically build any form factor you need to fit some of the odd shapes of the van.
These are just Lithium Ion - is that what you were asking? What are these snap together cell holders.. something modular?
 
#96 ·
Burl's all back in one piece - got a little fire lit under my butt in the form of a snowstorm and impending below freezing temperatures.

Burl had been drained of coolant for awhile and I decided to do a flush, which couldn't sit overnight. Around midnight last night I finished things up.

Still a couple small items related to the fan install, and putting the doghouse back together and all that. I'll have some more notes on the e-fan install in a follow up here - it actually was pretty easy.
 

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#98 ·
Hah, reminds me - I hadn't ever mentioned the roof rack and ladder

I ended up putting L-track on the roof at the suggestion of someone here on the forum. It's worked out great, I would definitely recommend it. The only thing i fudged up there was i used metric fasteners when the countersink is apparently cut for SAE. so the bolts stick up a bit and get in the way of the l track inserts sometimes. Also, some of the fastener locations end up behind a cross member or something like that, I just used sheet metal screws there and bolts with large washers everywhere else. just some butyl tape underneath it for water sealing. I then used yakima rail rider towers (basically just a convenient shape that is designed to bolt to a flat surface) with a little adapter plate to make bolt on towers for the l-track. Some 58" wide crossbars and we were in business.

Once that was all up there, I realized the van was too damn tall. My friend at Levelhand Engineering built me a custom ladder that bolts into the L track and then the pinch weld at the bottom of the body. It even lets the window open! if you're in the denver/lakewood area and need some custom fab, look him up!
 

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#101 ·
pmou said:
Vanteriors said:
pmou said:
here's what I found inside minus all the fancy circuitry. you could like also leave it intact with all the smart charging circuits, but then you are restricted on input/output voltage.

i think this was a 36v / 460wh battery in its original application.
Do you know what chemistry those cells are? There are a few that can be found in e-bike packs that I would rather not have in one of my vans. When they go off there is not much you can do beside watch them burn, (I worked at an E-bike
battery factory and we set a few off.). Great job repurposing those cells, you should look into the snap together cell holders for those 21700's you can basically build any form factor you need to fit some of the odd shapes of the van.
These are just Lithium Ion - is that what you were asking? What are these snap together cell holders.. something modular?
There are multiple chemistries of lithium ion batteries, they all have different characteristics and advantages. Lithium polymer, lithium cobalt, lithium iron phosphate and so on. E-bike packs can come in almost all of the chemistries. Li-po (lithium polymer) was very common due to low cost and high power, but it can be a dangerous chemistry as it is more prone to thermal runaway, and as I mentioned earlier once it runs away it's not good. I'm not trying to scare you out of the those cells, as I think it's a great repurposing, but I figured I would share so you have an idea of what your dealing with.

As for the 21700 spacers, that's exactly what they are. Modular snap together spacers that can be grid in a number of different shapes and configurations. It's likely going to require you to spot well the bus bars to the cells though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/21700-2170...5&pageci=4049c86d-5039-44ff-af57-1c447811d542

You should check out endless-sphere forums, there are a bunch of people repurposing Ebike cells there for various applications.
 
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