No awd

No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 11th 2019, 3:28pm

2004 Astro. Stock driveline. Lost awd over the summer. No service light, no codes. Checked fuse, it was fine. Changed fluid, it looked fair condition, just swapped the encoder motor as that seemed to be next and no change. Looking for how to test signal to the Encoder motor. Or do I need to disconnected the battery for a while or what am I missing! Snow starts tonight of course!
Last edited by Rockridge on November 12th 2019, 1:22am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No awd

Postby mdconvert » November 11th 2019, 5:18pm

How do you know you lost AWD?
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Re: No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 11th 2019, 5:46pm

Front wheels not spinning. Tested on slick dirt trail. Also almost got stuck in a client's yard, wet grass hardly any pitch. The list goes on
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Re: No awd

Postby Leeann_93 » November 11th 2019, 11:53pm

I'm guessing encoder motor. There are a bunch of posts on here about that failing and, iirc, people say not to get the Dorman replacement because the bearings are plastic, not metal, but I could be confusing a couple problems...
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Re: No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 12th 2019, 1:26am

Sorry about that misinformation LeeAnn. I replaced the encoder motor today. Looking to maybe check for signal to it and maybe check to see if my old one is good or bad. Read over a bunch of threads, was hoping the motor swap would square me away. My first astro (8 years ago) was RWD, even with studded snows and weight in the back it would not get up my driveway in winter. Need my awd back! Thanks
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Re: No awd

Postby AstroWill » November 13th 2019, 9:54am

Rockridge wrote:My first astro (8 years ago) was RWD, even with studded snows and weight in the back it would not get up my driveway in winter. Need my awd back! Thanks

Must be one heck of a driveway.

Anyway, I would start with making sure the module is getting power and good ground to the connector(s). What scan tool are you using?

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Re: No awd

Postby Onthewater01 » November 14th 2019, 4:41pm

I believe I'm having the same issue...the snow has come to northeast Ohio, and I'm not seeing my front tires spinning when my rears do. I'll be following to find out what your experience is with your repair.
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Re: No awd

Postby Mmusicman » November 14th 2019, 7:41pm

* Bad encoder motor is usually most common reason for loss of AWD
* Bad clutches less common.. (would require rebuild).
* Also be sure to check ATC fuse under hood.
* Check connections.

FYI: The controller compares front propshaft speed to rear propshaft speed.
Any variation engages the AWD. Both sensors are located on TC.

If the encoder is engaging/working and there is still no AWD.. it is possible the internal clutches are worn or bad and not working. Also check fluid for issues.

These units are complicated, and ultimately I don't believe there is no definitive way to check them other than putting them to a real world test. Since we don't have snow in South Florida, one way I used to check mine was to jack my rear wheels off the ground (using a rolling floor jack on concrete) and see if the front would engage and attempt to pull me. I'd only go a few inches, but just enough to feel the pull. Extreme care needs to be used using this method.

When they work.. AWD's are the ultimate solution for driving in mud and snow.
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Re: No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 25th 2019, 12:04am

Is it possible for my awd to be sort of working? We are getting slush/rain now. There is 1.5" on the roads, I got up the driveway but struggled a bit. Friday almost got stuck in in the customers wet yard. Rears were trenching. Felt like fronts were doing nothing.

Going down the driveway tomorrow should be interesting.
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Re: No awd

Postby Leeann_93 » November 25th 2019, 12:08am

I’ve only ever had it work or had it not work, not sorta.

No AWD light?

When the AWD fuse on my ‘99 was bad, the AWD didn’t work and the light didn’t light. Replaced the fuse and all was well.

I would assume that anything else would light the light.
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Re: No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 25th 2019, 12:35am

I have no dash light, fuse is good, t-case fluid is good and just changed the encoder motor. My tires are maybe 1/2 worn. It must be working because back when I had my first RWD Astro it would never have tackled the driveway and I was running studded snows. I'm hoping to get up to my friends garage and put it up in the air soon.
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Re: No awd

Postby Leeann_93 » November 25th 2019, 12:47am

Tires are evenly worn?

Fluid good, new encoder motor, that’s all good. Actually got up the driveway without studs also is good. What kind of tires do you have installed?
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Re: No awd

Postby Rockridge [OP] » November 25th 2019, 2:05am

Kuhmo road venture AT2's. Was very impressed last winter when they were new. Wear isn't great, I ran around with a bad idler arm for a bit...
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Re: No awd

Postby The Drummer » November 25th 2019, 2:06am

What if the van is put on stands so that no wheel touches the ground ,then start it , put in D ,i asume that reer wheel would start spinning therefore the awd ,if working would engage and one of the front wheel would spin as well , is it ?
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Re: No awd

Postby plymouthcranbrook » November 25th 2019, 5:43am

My 2001 lost AWD about 2 years ago. Trans repair place could find no codes or reason to not have it work. All the tests they did came out good. Finally decided it might be in the computer. i decided I didn't need AWD that much and so far have managed to stumble through our exciting NE Illinois winters ok. Maybe years of driving in the 60's, 70's, and 80's with rear wheel drive only made it easier. Good luck on finding the problem.
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Re: No awd

Postby Mmusicman » November 27th 2019, 3:42am

The Drummer wrote:What if the van is put on stands so that no wheel touches the ground ,then start it , put in D ,i asume that reer wheel would start spinning therefore the awd ,if working would engage and one of the front wheel would spin as well , is it ?

You should know that this is NOT a valid test. The clutches have a nominal amount of "pre-load" on them.. and the front wheels WILL turn (wheels in air with no load) whether AWD is engaged or not.

The front must turn at a different speed than the rear for true engagement.. then the front MUST see a load to assure the clutches are not slipping.
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Re: No awd

Postby The Drummer » November 28th 2019, 5:01am

apply a little brake then ,maybe ?
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Re: No awd

Postby Old Barney » November 28th 2019, 2:21pm

I have looked at the set of factory manuals and have yet to find an explanation of the voltage needed to turn the encoder motor? Also the duration (amount of time the voltage is applied). If this is known then a momentary voltage could be supplied with clip leads to a power source to test the motor. But with out that information?? Is the voltage just reversed to reverse the encoder?? Is the voltage momentary or constant?
Next a momentary toggle switch could be installed to energize the 4 wheel drive with bright red flashing light to remind the operator to disengage.
Tomorrow morning I will play with my transfer case I have on my transmission. I have a variable supply and listen to hear the motor turn.
Back in the day before computer control life was simple. a dang lever stuck up through the floor and a yank would get you going. even a cable control stuck under the dash with a big knob to pull out for 4 wheel then push in to take it out.
If I had a machine shop I would make a plate with shaft and seal it to take the place of the electric encoder run a cable thing to do the job.
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Re: No awd

Postby Mmusicman » November 28th 2019, 4:45pm

There are two large gauge black wires in the DS kick panel (easy access) that apply voltage to the encoder. I was going to rig a manual switch (with a pair of relays) years ago, but it was never determined if steady 12v would burn up the encoder, since it is designed to receive 12v PWM (pulse width modulation). Of course now with my 233 TC swap, it no longer matters to me.

I'm sure you can apply direct power.. but unknown for how long.

Here's one previous discussion:
https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.p ... d#p1515432

Here's a little more:
https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.p ... d#p1340042
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Re: No awd

Postby Leeann_93 » November 28th 2019, 5:19pm

The only problem I've ever had with my AWD was when I first got the '99 and the ATC fuse under the hood was toast. Replaced it and have never had to think about AWD again - the '02 and the '05 have worked perfectly with no intervention other than replacing the fluid with AutoTrak 2.

I wonder if it's a speed sensor thing - the control module isn't getting correct info, so it's not applying the clutches and turning the front?

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