4x4 transfer question or 2

4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » August 30th 2020, 1:11am

Anyone know of a 4x4 transfer that will handle a V8 and not have electrical to the ECM? like pre 94? Thanks Mark
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby dcsleeperdcsleeper is online! » August 30th 2020, 2:19am

All 98 and previous Borg Warner 4772
Get the driveshafts to make it a bolt in swap.
They handled the Typhoon/Syclone's boosted (and modified) outputs, so no worrys.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby dit » August 30th 2020, 2:23am

Most NP or NV transfer cases are not electrically shifted: 231, 241, 242, 249 etc. All have been used and abused behind V8s. The 231 was found in many S10 pu and blazers and is the easiest bolt up for an astro, no AWD though. People have been using the 231 manual shift in Astros for decades!

If you want awd/4wd manual shift you can use 242 or 249; I've been running the 242 for a long time. It was behind a V8 in a jeep Cherokee. Extensive write up in the old site. Be prepared for a lot of fabrication!
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » September 16th 2020, 2:56am

Does the BW 4472 require being wired to anything such as the ECM I ask because I have a 98 front AWD frame with the BW 4472 I wish to know if I can use it with my 89 which is TBI/700R4
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby MechBob » September 16th 2020, 4:42am

Many answers,Mark.The BW is non electric,except for the speed sensor for the speedometer.BUT it is not 4x4, it is AWD.I think your 89 is electric speedometer also? A 231 is manual shift 4x4,a 233 is usually converted from electronic to manual,cable or linkage,and so it goes.The thing about fit,as long as you have the trans to t/case adapter for the right year transfer case.The back of a 4l60 is the same as a 700. But,you will have to change out the output shaft of the transmission.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » September 16th 2020, 6:12am

OK Thanks for the answer, I asked this because I may do the frame swap and leave the AWD transfer in my van till I can afford to buy a transfer from a S-10 at a pick n pull. Just in case I decide to do that I will hold onto the stock transfer. Now is there way to do the 4x4 transfer and have it so I can lock out the front axle when I wish to? Or is that not possible I am talking like I used to do with my K5. It had locking hubs but is there a way to do the same thing without the locking hubs parts? Thanks, Mark
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby MechBob » September 16th 2020, 12:53pm

Yes.The S10 front diff.is "split" at the rf inner axle,by a cable/vacuum unit,controlled by a vac. switch on the transfer case.That is what I have on my 94.But,also,they also make a manual cable conversion,so using the vacuum stuff is not necessary.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » September 16th 2020, 2:52pm

Cool that is exactly what I need to know. I am gathering all this info and putting it on an old hard drive labeled 4x4 Astro RS. so in the future I can access it to give info to anyone that needs it. Mark
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby Leeann_93 » September 18th 2020, 12:22am

MechBob wrote:Yes.The S10 front diff.is "split" at the rf inner axle, by a cable/vacuum unit, controlled by a vac. switch on the transfer case. That is what I have on my 94. But, also, they also make a manual cable conversion, so using the vacuum stuff is not necessary.


And that's what most of the Blazer/Jimmy/S10 guys do because the vacuum line runs under the battery tray on those trucks and gets eaten...often. So they install a manual cable instead.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » October 1st 2020, 11:26pm

More questions: If I were to go with the 231 do I need driveshafts from something else to do the swap? Can I use a home made shifter like mmusicman did with the 231? What spline count do I need to go with? Also will the adapter from the 98 between the transmission and the stock transfer fit the 231?Thanks guys/gals.

PS: I went to a local fabrication shop to bu some sections of 1/4 inch steel plate and made a friend. This guy is right into 4x4 stuff and he told me he could custom make practically anything such as skid plates, motor mounts etc. I am sure it won't be cheap though. Mark
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby dit » October 2nd 2020, 2:33am

There are many 231 configurations. You will certainly need a different front driveshaft as the BW uses a flat flange and the NP231 a ujoint yoke. you may not need a different rear shaft depending on the 231 you have. Other than cutting a hole in the floor the manual shifter is rather easy. I have a long write up on the original site under NP242.

Regarding the front axle disconnect, I think I did a write up again on the original site on how to make your own cable disconnect. Take the time to wire up an indicator light to the existing switch on the axle housing to show that the axle is engaged/dis-engaged.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » October 9th 2020, 2:13am

Ok so according to one site I was on I may need an adapter that goes between the transmission and the transfer. Now my question is: there is an adapter between the 4l60E and the NP4472. Is this the same one for the 700R4/NP231C? It is the aluminum part the transmission mount is bolted to? Is this the same part I need?
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby Mmusicman » October 10th 2020, 2:55pm

Not to discredit all the cool and fun extra effort, uncertainty, and work of a customized installation.. one of the main reasons I went with the NP233C case is there was ZERO uncertainty and everything fits. It's a direct swap with the AWD unit. My van is my daily driver and I can not have ANY downtime. I start a job in the morning and it needs to be done by end of day. The 233 swap literally took me about an hour.. it completely bolted up to everything stock, and both AWD drive-shafts fit without any changes. NO QUESTIONS. It can even be immediately driven even without the shifter. I spent about another hour installing my cable shifter. Initial prep of the unit was done without the van being down.

Of course, converting from a RWD adds a lot of extra effort.

I think the advantage of the 231 case is that it already comes with a manual shifter arm (no need to fabricate).. but the driveshaft yokes become the issue. Of course with either unit.. you need correct rear spline count too.

The S10 axle/hub disconnect is an interesting idea.. but a little too much effort with minimal benefit, IMO.
But certainly if you have the desire to go the extra mile.. then go for it!
It is uncertain to me if this becomes a weakness in the front drive-line, or if it's even an issue.
I guess the S10 guys could answer this.

I'm just one of these guys who prefer a "practical" approach to my upgrades.
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Have fun!

markmitch wrote:Anyone know of a 4x4 transfer that will handle a V8

It's a good question. I "think" the output shaft of any 4x4 case is coupled (in direct line) directly to the transmission in high range. If so.. I doubt there would be any issues for normal use, but that's just my guess. Of course it also depends on how hard you push or beat the system under extreme conditions.

The 231/233 have no electrical connections to the ECM... nor is it absolutely needed for manual 4x4 functionality. The external switch to the ECM is merely an "option" that only "adds" automatic shifting and higher gear access while using 4-low. Additionally, the built-in vacuum switch is merely an option to lock/unlock the hubs on the S10.. which as discussed is often upgraded. Someone here posted a replacement electronic switch (on the TC) which looks like an excellent upgrade.
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » October 10th 2020, 4:43pm

All good points the only reason I was thinking 231 is because I thought it was easier to do. When I was asking you about the switch to get all gears I was forgetting you have a different transmission then I am using. Mine is a 700R4 so the question was mute. After we discussed that I realized my mistake. So you were correct I just didn't understand till I finally realized the transmission difference made it so for my situation. Basically for now I will put the project together using the AWD transfer for now and worry about the swap later. This way I can concentrate on things such as the oil pan and brakes. I will be replacing the brake hoses and lines over the winter. I got the motor mounts fabricated. I added a 1/4" spacer under the trans mount to match the 1/4" I added to the motor mounts. Frame was power washed, degreased, rust reformed, primed with epoxy primer then painted and undercoated to stop rust. I replaced the front diff bushings with poly. I am having the body lift bocks made from steel pipe cause I had some 1/4 inch steel pipe the right size in my scrap pile. (1/4 is the size of the pipe walls)they will be 2.5 inches tall. This is the best time of year for me to do this since it has been low 80's all week. That's it for now. Mark
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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby Leeann_93 » October 10th 2020, 5:13pm

markmitch wrote:Mine is a 700R4 so the question was moot.



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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby Mmusicman » October 10th 2020, 5:39pm

markmitch wrote:All good points the only reason I was thinking 231 is because I thought it was easier to do.

Depends on your definition of "easier to do"... as well as parts and tools you have access to. Replacing a driveshaft/yoke vs making a shift arm and tapping a steel shaft. I found making the shifter arm was easy enough, and fun. 231/233 essentially the same unit. If you go with 231, be sure to get the later stronger model.

Mine is a 700R4 so the question was mute. After we discussed that I realized my mistake.

I forgot we had that discussion. Yes the 700R4 is SO easy to work with.. no electronics!
Perfect for ANY upgrade project!

I am having the body lift bocks made from steel pipe cause I had some 1/4 inch steel pipe the right size in my scrap pile. (1/4 is the size of the pipe walls)they will be 2.5 inches tall.

That's essentially how mine were made. :D

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Re: 4x4 transfer question or 2

Postby markmitch [OP] » October 10th 2020, 6:31pm

Well my parts van is a 98 and my project is a 89 so I think I still may need to get 99 to 2005 driveshafts even to use the 233. But I will look into it and get the info. You got me convinced the 233 will be a better transfer and easier to find. I went to pick n pull last week and no 231C transfers out there. I also read that the 231 has some issues in the snow on the road.
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