Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby Heide264 [OP] » August 3rd 2009, 2:03pm

Alright, so after coming back from vaca and seeing my seat bolt ground post, I've generally deemed it not the best ground (also getting small bits of noise when there isn't signal going through the speakers). I just did it mainly because I wanted music this past weekend and the bolt was staring me in the face (literally) and I thought it might work.

...So, my question goes, what would be the best place to use as a ground? All my amps are located right behind the front seats. There are about 600W total of them between an old USAmps150 that runs bridged for the sub and a 240W JBL for the door speakers - nothing too heavy or anything, but still would like to find a decent ground. If I could avoid drilling anything, it would be fantastic, but would rather do it right.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby evil_motors » August 3rd 2009, 2:53pm

just find some metal.. clean it off really good down to bare metal.. then bolt to it.. anywhere on the body is a good ground as long as you can get to it and it is clean.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby astro355 » August 3rd 2009, 3:16pm

evil_motors wrote:just find some metal.. clean it off really good down to bare metal.. then bolt to it.. anywhere on the body is a good ground as long as you can get to it and it is clean.


Yes.

The only thing I'm going to add to this is that I wouldn't install the ground under the carpet. Carpet likes to absorb moisture and moisture for electrical circuits is bad. I know GM for years has put grounds under the carpets. In some cases, its fine. In other cases, it just creates problems. I can't begin to think about how many cars I've worked on with odd ball electrical problems that were the result of a bad ground. :2:
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby Heide264 [OP] » August 3rd 2009, 3:46pm

Alright, not too worried about the carpet honestly. I will just cut a small square away and use a self tapping screw. Maybe I will be able to find a camera and take a couple pictures for reference and feedback.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby SIGHTS AND SOUNDS » August 3rd 2009, 4:04pm

amps i like to ground as far away as possible from the motor. keeps alot of noise out. just my :2:
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby SIGHTS AND SOUNDS » August 3rd 2009, 4:05pm

amps i like to ground as far away as possible from the motor. keeps alot of noise out. just my :2:
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby Heide264 [OP] » August 3rd 2009, 4:48pm

Well, I currently feed my two amps into a distribution block, and then ground that cable. It is either a question of short grounding cables or grounding away from the motor... I can always put an extra 2-3 feet of grounding cable on and ground it wherever. Which would you do? I think right now my issue is getting a good ground, not the engine whine (at least nothing too noticeable to me as is off the seat bolt)
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby $uperJoe » August 3rd 2009, 6:50pm

well in honesty a dis block is usually for a positive wire situation. it will work for neg also but make sure the wire sizes add up. assuming your amps are using all the power they can get from the wires and lets say both your amps ground with an 8ga to the block. then the block would need at least a 4ga to the chassis. most people dont know that electrons flow from neg to positive in a direct current circut. this means that no matter how big your power wire is you can only get as much power as your ground is. location is not as key as clean connections.


here is a basic write up before the criticism starts flying

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby Heide264 [OP] » August 3rd 2009, 7:00pm

Yeah, I know about the electron flow and all; actually going for EE up at PSU... I have I think its 4 or 8 awg for the main wires to both the blocks (ground and pos). From the blocks to the 2 amps I run slightly smaller wire, but nothing too much smaller than the 4 or 8awg. As it stands now the wire is not my limiting factor, its my connections by far. Since I did not have much time the wire is simply clamped under the bolt ground wise, and the eyelet for the positive lead is just crimped onto the wire without any solder. I will take some pictures so i can get some better feedback from everybody.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby astro355 » August 3rd 2009, 8:52pm

$uperJoe wrote:well in honesty a dis block is usually for a positive wire situation. it will work for neg also but make sure the wire sizes add up. assuming your amps are using all the power they can get from the wires and lets say both your amps ground with an 8ga to the block. then the block would need at least a 4ga to the chassis. most people dont know that electrons flow from neg to positive in a direct current circut. this means that no matter how big your power wire is you can only get as much power as your ground is. location is not as key as clean connections.


here is a basic write up before the criticism starts flying

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html


I'll back you on that one. Nothing wrong there.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby SIGHTS AND SOUNDS » August 4th 2009, 1:29am

$uperJoe wrote:well in honesty a dis block is usually for a positive wire situation. it will work for neg also but make sure the wire sizes add up. assuming your amps are using all the power they can get from the wires and lets say both your amps ground with an 8ga to the block. then the block would need at least a 4ga to the chassis. most people dont know that electrons flow from neg to positive in a direct current circut. this means that no matter how big your power wire is you can only get as much power as your ground is. location is not as key as clean connections.


here is a basic write up before the criticism starts flying

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html

as with asto...i will back u up also lmao
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby rev_les » August 5th 2009, 6:26am

As for the front seat bolt, you can still use it, just make sure the connection is cleaned as stated before,and I'd put the terminal between the seat and the floor,and solder the terminals on.
as for this!
I can't begin to think about how many cars I've worked on with odd ball electrical problems that were the result of a bad ground.
Amen, that's why it's the FIRST thing you look at when things go awry, lol
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby astro355 » August 5th 2009, 1:36pm

rev_les wrote:
I can't begin to think about how many cars I've worked on with odd ball electrical problems that were the result of a bad ground.
Amen, that's why it's the FIRST thing you look at when things go awry, lol


And that's why I would never install another ground in an area where the same thing could happen.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby rev_les » August 6th 2009, 4:37am

I have mine grounded to the seatbelt bolt for the center row, on the drivers side..personally, I have no problems with it. I have a redundant 4 ga ground wire ran to the subframe though. I run 3 amps, my sub amp is 1500 watt's rms( 1/2 ohm) 600 watts rms, and 400 watts rms... it's not competition, but it's more than the average joe's running. I run a distribution block for the ground as well, with a single 0 ga cable running to ground.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby Heide264 [OP] » August 7th 2009, 2:04pm

I ended up just using an eye hole end and cutting a slit in it so it is more of a spade terminal. i just slid it around the front seat bolt after cleaning it up a bit... Pretty hard to get all the loose dirt off of them after 10 years let alone clean them up for a ground, but I got it. Sounding good and feel a lot better about it.

Do you guys use butane torches or something to get solder down those connectors? I know for a fact my trusty cheepy walmart soldering iron won't heat up the eye hole connector enough to get solder to go near it.

I'm going to take some pictures this afternoon - half day so gonna make my speaker mounts and get the darn thing done finally. Thanks for all the help so far =).
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby rev_les » August 8th 2009, 1:47am

Do you guys use butane torches or something to get solder down those connectors? I know for a fact my trusty cheepy walmart soldering iron won't heat up the eye hole connector enough to get solder to go near it.
yepper, a mini-torch, or on larger gauge wire I just fire up the propane torch, and the heavy solder works better, you go through a roll of the thin stuff fast. If you use the thin, pull off a couple of feet and at minimum quadruple it. It's best to get it soldered as fast as possible without melting too much insulation off the wire.
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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby moboman » August 11th 2009, 4:59am

Here was my setup.
Image

I used a single ground terminal from street wires for the amps/secondary battery.
http://www.streetwires.com/products/default.aspx?grp=58

Just grind off the paint, throw some penatrox on it and then use a few self tapping screws in the mounting holes provided. This will give you a nice solid ground instead of trying to go under a seat bolt which is just about the worst possible ground imho.

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Re: Ideal front seat ground (opposed to seat bolts)

Postby $uperJoe » August 11th 2009, 5:37am

is that a wood grain floor?
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