A Guide to Sound Deadening

A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby 1low-stro [OP] » March 28th 2008, 12:06am

Now this is just a sample of sound deadening, and there is probably alot more to it. This is just a sample

A lot of people on here do sound deadening or want to do sound deadening, this thread is merely a guide of a few different products I've experienced through buying my own for my truck and sound deadening customers vehicles with different brands of sound deadening.

First off, everyone asks how much for their vehicle for specific spots. Here's a generic guide to go by:

Front doors
Rear doors
Headliner
Floor
Back wall


Notice that all the doors are rated per door. That is only including the inner door skin, double the number to do the outer door skin.

Now for some reviews:

Products:
Liquids
Second Skin Spectrum spray
This is a sprayable liquid deadener, you can put it into any paint gun and simply spray it on. If applied in equal thickness, spectrum will work better and be lighter than any comparable mat. All the liquid deadeners require little prep work to get to stick properly. A simple dusting is enough. Also, liquid deadeners are great to use for your fender wells. Doing the fender wells is a great way to reduce road noise. Both spectrum and sludge dry a very dark blue. For all the liquids, 1 gallon covers ~ 40 sq ft.

Drawbacks: As with out liquid deadeners, it has to dry. Depending on the weather and thickness applied, it can take up to 3 days to dry enough to put the interior back in. If applied in equal thickness of a mat deadener on a good hot day, it takes about 6 hours to dry enough to put the interior back in. It can take from 3-7 days to achieve full potential.

Second Skin Spectrum Sludge
This is comparable to mud in thickness and feel. This is great for people who dont have access to a spray gun for spectrum or people that dont have enough patience to put on multiple layers. You can put this stuff on as thick as you'd like. It takes about the same to dry as spectrum, but the thicker you lay it on the more time that needs to be allowed to dry. Sludge is NOT as good as spectrum, but the difference is not noticeable.

Second Skin Firewall
This is Second Skin's best liquid deadener. It is a little thicker than spectrum but not as thick as sludge. All the same qualities. It dries white.

eD's eDead
Buy light blue spray paint, works about the same.

Mat
Peel n Seal
This is a cheap popular deadening material that can be found at Home Depot or Lowe's. It is normally used as roofing material and is asphault based. If you do get this stuff, you MUST prep the area EXTREMELY well and heat up the mat right before it is applied. If the installation is damn near perfect, it'll fall off. This deadener WILL leave your car smelling for a while, especially if you do it in the summer. If you have really hot summers, you might have a reoccuring smell everytime this stuff gets really hot. If you live in really cold temperatures, asphault based deadeners tend to harden up and get brittle, leading to potential adhesion failure. Asphault is very cheap, this is why this and the next few products will be the cheapest products to buy.

Rockford Fosgate's Dead Skin
Buy Peel n Seal, same stuff, a lot cheaper.

eDead v1SE
A little better than Peel n Seal, same asphault based crap though. This stuff isn't as thin as Peel n Seal and sticks much better. It is a little more expensive than the Peel n Seal, but not by much. As with any asphault based mat, it will smell for a week or two after you put it in and if you have really hot summers you might have that reoccuring smell.

Dynamat
Again, a little better then the eDead stuff in both adhesion and application, but a lot less of the smell.

Fat Mat
Fat Mat is a combination asphault/butyl deadener. It is able to keep cost relatively low without having the drawbacks of cracking, melting, or smelling like asphault mats do. This stuff is actually pretty good, especially for its cost, but isn't all that thick.

Raammat BXT60
This stuff gets the nod from a lot of the regulars on this site. It is also an asphault/butyl based deadener. It is thicker than Fat Mat and seems to have much better deadening capabilities than what the difference in thickness would make you think. This stuff can be had for $150 for 95 sq ft if you look around, that price was from the recent group buy that was held here. Basically $1.60/sq ft. Great stuff.

Stinger's Roadkill
A more expensive, all butyl form of Raammat. Not worth the price difference.

Second Skin Damplifier
This is a full Butyl based deadener. It is a little thicker than Raammat and can be had for about $1.85/ft for 80 sq ft for just being a member of the forum on the website. They offer better deals on different forums every now and again.

Second Skin Damplifier Pro
This is the thickest deadener on the market, period. It is almost 40% thicker than Raammat BXT, plus it is all butyl based. It also one of the more expensive options. It is $2.80/ft for 80 sq ft for being a member of his forum.

Dynamat Extreme
Not as thick as second skin's damplifier pro and more expensive...

There are also a wide variety of specialty deadeners from Second Skin for blocking road noises and absorbing panel vibration. Cascade also makes some as well as Raammat has Ensolite. The only ones I have used are Second Skin's products, so I cannot tell you the difference between the brands. Once I have used all of Second Skin's specialty deadeners, I will post my results on here.

Other things worth mentioning:
Great Stuff: Gaps and Cracks
This stuff is an expandable foam that works great for putting in the crossmembers under the hood or even in the bed rail. It reduces both vibrations and road noise. It is not recommended to put this stuff in your headliner as it has the potential to bow out your roof, but under the hood is poses no threat. It will not disolve or melt from the heat and elements. Be careful when you put this stuff on though, IT EXPANDS. Apply a little at a time and be careful to not let it expand out and fall on the engine, its a pain in the *** to get off. Putting a tarp over the engine bay will solve all those problems though.

Tips and tricks
For liquid deadeners, I've found foam brushes work the best unless you're dealing with sludge. Then your hand works best or some other type of applier like one that would be used for bondo or the like.

For mat, as crazy as it sounds, tennis balls work great. Theyre small, easy to grab, and easy to put a lot of pressure on. For tight spots, I've found that wooden spoons with a flat edge are great. I have a metal panel popper that works great. In fact, if you look at my pictures, youll see very distinguished lines about 2" apart all over the mat. That is the mark from my panel popper. It is similar to middle one found in this picture


That panel popper and a wooden spoon is what I did my truck with. Tennis balls work great for places that are really uneven, like a trunk.

For prep work, use acetone and a rag. It works the best. Mineral spirits isn't as good as an idea because it leaves behind a bit of a residue. Alcohol is another one, but doens't work as well or fast as acetone. After cleaned and air dried, go over it with cheesecloth to get anything else left behind.

Airbubbles:
Everyone will get them, no matter how experienced you are. Ive done my whole truck in mat and when I was doing some today in the rear doors I got air bubbles. They're very simple to get rid of, simply take a raser and cut it right down the middle, then press the two sides back together one at a time.

Also, cut in small strips. If you have to keep pulling the deadener off and reapplying to get it in the right spot, you will start losing its adhesion capabilities.

My personal recommendations:

If I had to do my truck and did not have a huge amount of power behind my subs, I would use Second Skin's sludge for the entire vehicle. The only drawback, and I mean ONLY draw back is that it has to dry. Other than that, it gets in more spaces that mat can't, is cheaper, and works better.

If drying time was a concern, but money is:
Raammat BXT60. Its a relatively cheap and effective method of deadening.

If drying time was a concern, but money wasn't:
Second Skin Damplifier Pro. Best stuff on the market, but you'll pay for it.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby moboman » May 21st 2008, 9:41pm

I really like the Raamatt. I like how it doesnt get messed up if it gets wet. Some of the other things I've tried get destroyed when they get wet. The only thing I dont like about the raamatt is that it is messy. I like how cheap it is. I figured my van wasnt worth spending a lot on sound deadening, so I logically picked Raamatt to do the whole van with. It deadens well too.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby meetthespeakers » May 22nd 2008, 6:12pm

I can't wait to do mine, I've had a roll of 150' for over a year waiting to get in there. Looks like this summer it will happen as soon as I buy new black carpet, and have a weekend to fool with it. Great post!
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby snapple » July 6th 2008, 2:33pm

My main concerns are odor & cost.What would you guys recommend that won't smell up my van on hot days?It also gets pretty cold here in the winters.This all started after I had to remove the insulation under my carpet,it was soaked and stinking up the whole van!More concerned with cutting down road noise and heat.Its amazing how loud the fuel pump is without the insulation and carpet!Thanks for any input!
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby meetthespeakers » July 6th 2008, 4:55pm

[b]I ended up using both Raamat and FatMat and I got to say I liked the FatMat better for the price and quality of product. The FatMat seemed more flexible and a sticker product. I did the floors and ides with FatMat, and I used whatever leftover Raamat I had to do the doors and part of the front floors. Both products don't smell. I've had them in for 3 weeks in hot weather and no odors. I also installed new carpet with insulation at the same time, and overall its van seems to be quiter, and I've got a little extra Db's out of the stereo. :afro:
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby KHPower » May 24th 2009, 10:56pm

I went to home Depot and lowes and tday picked up a small rol of the Peel N Seal brand just to give it a go on my rear doors It came in a 6'' x 25' roll for $14.00.

i seen at home depot they have a thin asfault like brand called Weather Craft and it came in a huge roll , was self adhesing and came with a price tag of $51.00 which seemed like a fair price, the only difference between the two was the Peel and seal has the aluminum shield and the weathercraft didnt.

Im trying to go the cheap route at the moment
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby scott936 » March 12th 2011, 7:12pm

1low-stro wrote:Now this is just a sample of sound deadening, and there is probably alot more to it. This is just a sample

A lot of people on here do sound deadening or want to do sound deadening, this thread is merely a guide of a few different products I've experienced through buying my own for my truck and sound deadening customers vehicles with different brands of sound deadening.

First off, everyone asks how much for their vehicle for specific spots. Here's a generic guide to go by:

Front doors
Rear doors
Headliner
Floor
Back wall


Notice that all the doors are rated per door. That is only including the inner door skin, double the number to do the outer door skin.

Now for some reviews:

Products:
Liquids
Second Skin Spectrum spray
This is a sprayable liquid deadener, you can put it into any paint gun and simply spray it on. If applied in equal thickness, spectrum will work better and be lighter than any comparable mat. All the liquid deadeners require little prep work to get to stick properly. A simple dusting is enough. Also, liquid deadeners are great to use for your fender wells. Doing the fender wells is a great way to reduce road noise. Both spectrum and sludge dry a very dark blue. For all the liquids, 1 gallon covers ~ 40 sq ft.

Drawbacks: As with out liquid deadeners, it has to dry. Depending on the weather and thickness applied, it can take up to 3 days to dry enough to put the interior back in. If applied in equal thickness of a mat deadener on a good hot day, it takes about 6 hours to dry enough to put the interior back in. It can take from 3-7 days to achieve full potential.

Second Skin Spectrum Sludge
This is comparable to mud in thickness and feel. This is great for people who dont have access to a spray gun for spectrum or people that dont have enough patience to put on multiple layers. You can put this stuff on as thick as you'd like. It takes about the same to dry as spectrum, but the thicker you lay it on the more time that needs to be allowed to dry. Sludge is NOT as good as spectrum, but the difference is not noticeable.

Second Skin Firewall
This is Second Skin's best liquid deadener. It is a little thicker than spectrum but not as thick as sludge. All the same qualities. It dries white.

eD's eDead
Buy light blue spray paint, works about the same.

Mat
Peel n Seal
This is a cheap popular deadening material that can be found at Home Depot or Lowe's. It is normally used as roofing material and is asphault based. If you do get this stuff, you MUST prep the area EXTREMELY well and heat up the mat right before it is applied. If the installation is damn near perfect, it'll fall off. This deadener WILL leave your car smelling for a while, especially if you do it in the summer. If you have really hot summers, you might have a reoccuring smell everytime this stuff gets really hot. If you live in really cold temperatures, asphault based deadeners tend to harden up and get brittle, leading to potential adhesion failure. Asphault is very cheap, this is why this and the next few products will be the cheapest products to buy.

Rockford Fosgate's Dead Skin
Buy Peel n Seal, same stuff, a lot cheaper.

eDead v1SE
A little better than Peel n Seal, same asphault based crap though. This stuff isn't as thin as Peel n Seal and sticks much better. It is a little more expensive than the Peel n Seal, but not by much. As with any asphault based mat, it will smell for a week or two after you put it in and if you have really hot summers you might have that reoccuring smell.

Dynamat
Again, a little better then the eDead stuff in both adhesion and application, but a lot less of the smell.

Fat Mat
Fat Mat is a combination asphault/butyl deadener. It is able to keep cost relatively low without having the drawbacks of cracking, melting, or smelling like asphault mats do. This stuff is actually pretty good, especially for its cost, but isn't all that thick.

Raammat BXT60
This stuff gets the nod from a lot of the regulars on this site. It is also an asphault/butyl based deadener. It is thicker than Fat Mat and seems to have much better deadening capabilities than what the difference in thickness would make you think. This stuff can be had for $150 for 95 sq ft if you look around, that price was from the recent group buy that was held here. Basically $1.60/sq ft. Great stuff.

Stinger's Roadkill
A more expensive, all butyl form of Raammat. Not worth the price difference.

Second Skin Damplifier
This is a full Butyl based deadener. It is a little thicker than Raammat and can be had for about $1.85/ft for 80 sq ft for just being a member of the forum on the website. They offer better deals on different forums every now and again.

Second Skin Damplifier Pro
This is the thickest deadener on the market, period. It is almost 40% thicker than Raammat BXT, plus it is all butyl based. It also one of the more expensive options. It is $2.80/ft for 80 sq ft for being a member of his forum.

Dynamat Extreme
Not as thick as second skin's damplifier pro and more expensive...

There are also a wide variety of specialty deadeners from Second Skin for blocking road noises and absorbing panel vibration. Cascade also makes some as well as Raammat has Ensolite. The only ones I have used are Second Skin's products, so I cannot tell you the difference between the brands. Once I have used all of Second Skin's specialty deadeners, I will post my results on here.

Other things worth mentioning:
Great Stuff: Gaps and Cracks
This stuff is an expandable foam that works great for putting in the crossmembers under the hood or even in the bed rail. It reduces both vibrations and road noise. It is not recommended to put this stuff in your headliner as it has the potential to bow out your roof, but under the hood is poses no threat. It will not disolve or melt from the heat and elements. Be careful when you put this stuff on though, IT EXPANDS. Apply a little at a time and be careful to not let it expand out and fall on the engine, its a pain in the *** to get off. Putting a tarp over the engine bay will solve all those problems though.

Tips and tricks
For liquid deadeners, I've found foam brushes work the best unless you're dealing with sludge. Then your hand works best or some other type of applier like one that would be used for bondo or the like.

For mat, as crazy as it sounds, tennis balls work great. Theyre small, easy to grab, and easy to put a lot of pressure on. For tight spots, I've found that wooden spoons with a flat edge are great. I have a metal panel popper that works great. In fact, if you look at my pictures, youll see very distinguished lines about 2" apart all over the mat. That is the mark from my panel popper. It is similar to middle one found in this picture


That panel popper and a wooden spoon is what I did my truck with. Tennis balls work great for places that are really uneven, like a trunk.

For prep work, use acetone and a rag. It works the best. Mineral spirits isn't as good as an idea because it leaves behind a bit of a residue. Alcohol is another one, but doens't work as well or fast as acetone. After cleaned and air dried, go over it with cheesecloth to get anything else left behind.

Airbubbles:
Everyone will get them, no matter how experienced you are. Ive done my whole truck in mat and when I was doing some today in the rear doors I got air bubbles. They're very simple to get rid of, simply take a raser and cut it right down the middle, then press the two sides back together one at a time.

Also, cut in small strips. If you have to keep pulling the deadener off and reapplying to get it in the right spot, you will start losing its adhesion capabilities.

My personal recommendations:

If I had to do my truck and did not have a huge amount of power behind my subs, I would use Second Skin's sludge for the entire vehicle. The only drawback, and I mean ONLY draw back is that it has to dry. Other than that, it gets in more spaces that mat can't, is cheaper, and works better.

If drying time was a concern, but money is:
Raammat BXT60. Its a relatively cheap and effective method of deadening.

If drying time was a concern, but money wasn't:
Second Skin Damplifier Pro. Best stuff on the market, but you'll pay for it.


Wow thats some really great information, wish i would have known about sludge when I did my vette, I did it in Dynamat and it cost a small fortune I cant imagine how much a van would cost.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby detailer4u » May 22nd 2013, 9:42am

In regards to cleaning and prepping the surface - I would go easy on or hold off on the acetone. Personally, I won't use it in a vehicle except for when I'm servicing a vehicle and that is only in extremely rare situation. Acetone will eat away many of the material in cars, especially the foam under the cloth seats you sit on. It will also damage your exterior paint and to my understanding, plastic pieces all over the vehicle. Even just drops of acetone can melt certain plastics, this I know for a fact becasue I have seen it so be very careful.

Anytime you are working with solvents you should be wearing PPE (personal protective equipment). Wear disposable rubber gloves or if you insist on acetone, get nitrile or better. Acetone will eat away cheap gloves surprisingly quickly. Solvents are easily obsorbed into the bloodstream right through your skin faster than you think. Also make sure you have air flow around where you are working if in a tight confined space. If you have a cartridge-type respirator, use it. Put a fan nearby if needed but those vapors get into your lungs is bad and unlike furnace filters, our lungs can't be swapped out when they're dirty, they just give us cancer or other unwanted health issues later in life.

I work nights in aerospace building and testing satellites since 1997 and we have extremely specific requirements for cleaning certain things and I can tell you this for absolutely certain that acetone leaves a residue. If you use acetone, go over it with IPA (isopropol alcohol) which does not leave a residue. STAY AWAY from simple green or any other general purpose cleaner - they leave residues and take longer to dry anyway.

My van has two layers of Dynamat Extreme (personal favorite for my last 3 cars) under the 3/4" sealed custom cut and carpeted plywood floor I built (it's a cargo van, I started from scratch). Right now I am half way done installing 2 layers over the entire van and the doors are getting three layers on the outside and two layers on the inside door skin.


Some food for thought the will hopefully provoke your own individual ideas:

I removed the doghouse and removed the factory insulation and cleaned the surface with IPA and installed a layer of Dynamat Extreme on the engine side of the doghouse and re-installed the factory insulation. I consulted Dynamat prior to doing this, they concurred that it would work and it has indeed performed perfectly.

Dynamat's Hoodliner is going on the hood and will also be strategically placed inside the engine compartment. I'm aiming to make my van quiet from the ouside as well and I'm working on some ideas to make the engine less heard.

Forgive me if it has been mentioned already but if you're aiming to quiet your vehicle, all this material is for nothing if you have wind noise - remember to check and replace your door seals/weatherstripping too.

I hope this helps and triggers more ideas for you.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby markmitch » May 22nd 2013, 12:33pm

I have one question: what do you use for the area above the headliner? I plan on re doing the headliner this summer so what should I buy to do the inside of the roof? Thank you, Mark
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby detailer4u » May 22nd 2013, 2:38pm

I'm using double layers of Dynamat Extreme on the roof but then again, I have a cargo van so I have the unfair advantage that I have no trip pieces or headliner (except up front) to remove. I have done half my roof already and it does not cause any sagging. After the two layers of Dynamat, I'm placing a layer of the gray generic insulation similar to what you see under carpet in most cars, then I'm going to be creating custom panels to hide it all, per how my van is set up for work.
Dynamat does make a specific type just for roofs if you wanted to go that route. It's call Dynaliner. I always just use the Extreme but then again that's always been due to high powered sound systems.
Dynamat, installed correcty makes a very noticable difference. I had a Cavalier I bought new back in '94 and the first thing before any sound system went into it, I completely stripped the interior and lined everything, especially the outside door skins, with 2 solid layers. My friends used to joke that it sounded quiet like a Cadillac. Seriously, with all the doors shut, in my garage, engine off, it was so quiet it was kind of creepy but when on the road, it did make a HUGE difference. I highly recommend the stuff. I use it in every car and never been disappointed.
The only thing is, once you pull the backing off, you really don't get a second chance, once it sticks, it's there for good, but that's a good thing, I've never had that stuff peel off- ever.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby markmitch » May 22nd 2013, 4:17pm

Thank you, we are planning on driving my astro across country from NH to CA. I would love to get the inside done prior to leaving.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby detailer4u » May 24th 2013, 4:35am

Cool, I'm in CA, Silicon Valley in particular. The Navy sent my dad here in 1976 and he always re-enlisted and got to stay here until he retired in 1990. If you are passing through and need help with anything local, feel free to contact me and I'll be happy to assist if needed. I've lived here for 37 years so I know the area well.

The Dynamat will definitely make your drive more enjoyable, I hope you get a chance to get it done.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby grond » July 4th 2013, 4:13am

Has anyone ever tried using Ice and Water Shield for sound deadening?
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby redfury » July 4th 2013, 6:09pm

detailer4u wrote:

I removed the doghouse and removed the factory insulation and cleaned the surface with IPA and installed a layer of Dynamat Extreme on the engine side of the doghouse and re-installed the factory insulation. I consulted Dynamat prior to doing this, they concurred that it would work and it has indeed performed perfectly.



Nice, I'll look into that. I need to replace the insulation inside both of my outboard covers. Factory used a grey/black open cell foam and it just breaks down and gets sucked into the engine. I was wondering if something like Dynamat would work. Although I wouldn't be afraid of using the sludge either, since it would probably be easier to apply and the dry time isn't really an issue, I can do the work when I'm not planning on using the boat for a week or longer ( or over the winter ).
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby gtfasteddy » December 2nd 2014, 6:28pm

Would applying second skin sludge then fat mat on top work or vise versa ?
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby MrBob » August 2nd 2015, 5:28pm

I'd like to keep this thread alive and post the latest sound and heat insulation technology. I'm searching for the best way to reduce heat radiation from the floor of my Cargo; the two diffs and transfer case give off a lot of heat.
One link is to a pricey floor mat that goes down in the back of the van. It has channels to accommodate the ribs in the floor: http://www.etrailer.com/Cargo-Van-Mats/ ... TNV11.html
I think this mat over a layer or Reflectrix could be very effective.
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby Lumpy » August 2nd 2015, 5:52pm

HEAT has to go somewhere. It wants to rise.

If your drivetrain and exhaust give off heat, the first place it will go is into the steel floor of the van. Insulation on TOP of that will only mean that the insulation will heat up. The more insulation the SLOWER it will heat.

Reflective material on TOP means it will reflect the heat of the metal floor BACK into the metal floor. The metal floor will get even hotter than if it's heat were released into the passenger compartment.

HEAT travels. COLD does not. Cold is simply heat at a lower temp. So insulation on the hot side of an object will be a lot more effective than insulation on the cold side.

Insulate the UNDERside of the van. Figure some way to allow the undervan air flow to move the heat away from the van's floor (components in the airstream, ducts, radiator fins etc). That would be how to keep heat out of the van. Otherwise you're simply slowing the heat transfer. A van with a ton of super insulation on TOP of the floor will get hot just like a van with NO insulation. It will just take longer.


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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby DRZ » August 7th 2015, 12:29am

Good points Lumpman
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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby joseluisrivera » July 25th 2016, 1:01am

Has anyone put reflectix or something else on the underside / outside to help with the heat......that bare floor does get hot...I'm in the process of putting in a new floor mat and want to try to mitigate the heat issue....

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Re: A Guide to Sound Deadening

Postby Echo » April 22nd 2017, 3:08am

Ok so... lets say I used two layers of raammat in my astro.

In areas with ridges like the floor... do I put down some sort of filler first to make it flat, or follow the floor contours?

Next layer on the floor, wood or something between like jute mat?

What about those "sound deadening tiles" ? Do I need those or just the mat and foam for the nooks and crannies?

Now... the walls amd cieling. After the mat is hung, can I put a layer of 1/8 ply for rigidity then carpet?

Im talking about a cargo with bare steel walls here.
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