Help needed translating pressures.

Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 20th 2015, 8:04pm

With the engine off, the high and low sides are 85psi. With the engine on and both front and back on high, the low side is still 85psi and the high side is 210psi. If I turn off the rear, there is no change in the pressures. Putting the front fan on low with the rear on high still makes no difference in the pressures.

I have several problems. The system works intermittently and when it does work, it is lackluster. The ambient temperature is in the upper 80s to lower 90s.

When the system doesn't work (switch on but blowing warm/hot air), the pressures were both 85psi.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Lumpy » September 20th 2015, 8:27pm

If that described my system, I'd say the only problem was that it sometimes didn't work.

Lackluster is a characteristic of our van's AC systems, at least it always has been in mine.


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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 20th 2015, 9:27pm

Thanks Lumpy,
Last year, it was working well. Sorta. The front worked great but the rear valve was stuck. I bought a new one, and the old one decided to free up. The air coming out isn't any better than the front.

I just found a chart and it indicates that it's overcharged. I am skeptical since it worked well before. I haven't added any freon. However, the prior owner was a horrible mechanic. I'm thinking he did something like failing to vacuum it down. Maybe the orfice(s) is/are clogged. I don't know enough about the system yet to work on it yet. Any ideas?
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 20th 2015, 9:30pm

R134a charts

m1410013_chart.jpg
m1410013_chart.jpg (71.61 KiB) Viewed 967 times
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 20th 2015, 9:34pm

My gut instinct is to bleed it down to see if that helps. And then evacuate it if needed.
I'm hoping for someone to talk some sense into me before I really mess things up.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Lumpy » September 20th 2015, 9:40pm

85/210 seems high on the LOW side at least, yes.

You could try evacuating some refrigerant to see if you get any positive results.

It's probably time to become an A/C mechanic. Buy a 30 lb can of refrigerant and a set of gauges and a vacuum pump.

At about this point I'd vacuum it down for an hour, and let it sit for several hours to verify the seals are all intact.

If the vacuum holds then I'd consider at least swapping the orifice tube. Those are five dollars. One step further would be to also replace the accumulator. But if I was going to do that, I'd want to be pretty sure there wasn't floating gunk in the system.

If the vacuum DOESN'T hold, then obviously tracking down the leak(s) would be the apprioriate next move.

I'm no AC expert. Mine's currently DOA after replacing the compressor, coil, accumulator, orifice last year. Too hot to troubleshoot now.


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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Mmusicman » September 20th 2015, 9:52pm

If you have air in the system, you can get odd readings. Mine was also recently lackluster with similar readings... higher than normal on the low side... and nothing I did seemed to work. Then I evacuated the system, replaced orifice tube, vacuumed system, and recharged, this time using a scale (with 30lb tank refill tank) to get correct charge. It definitely made mine cooler. I'm now getting about 35-40 low and about 250-300 high, depending on rpms. I attribute the air in the system from numerous re-charges over the years... and not purging the air from the lines. This same situation happened to a friend of mine who took it to a professional A/C shop... and somehow they were able to determine and actually read that he somehow had a lot of air in his system too. A proper recharge worked for him too.

Another thing that can give you high or incorrect readings is if you are not pulling enough air across through the condenser... just FYI. Run a water hose across condenser to see if it lowers your readings.

Other things (not related to pressure):

Another thing that can cause warmer A/C is a heater valve that is not fully closing... allowing small amounts of heat in with the cooling at the same time.

Another thing... check for air-leaks (at A/C fan) at evaporator... you can loose some cooling there.

Good luck
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 20th 2015, 10:36pm

I've got a set of gauges and vacuum pump. I have some small cans somewhere (we just moved). I might spring for a 30 lb container. And an orfice tube. I also have the Florida heat to serve as motivation...
...to put it off until winter.

Kidding.

Maybe.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Lumpy » September 20th 2015, 11:12pm

Those small cans will kill you in cost, even when you buy them really cheap at Wally's. Look for the 30 lb cans on Amazon.


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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 21st 2015, 1:22am

Yep, $45ish for 3 cans. $104 for the 30 pounder. Or buy six and get 24 free.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 21st 2015, 1:24am

Btw, the orfice has been acquired. The freon, not so much.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby AstroWill » September 21st 2015, 3:04am

Astro Hole wrote:Yep, $45ish for 3 cans. $104 for the 30 pounder. Or buy six and get 24 free.

Amazon has 3 cans for $18.29 including shipping.

Walmart had them on sale for $6 a can, you need 4 of them w/rear AC(IIRC).

And for those of you that don't have a vacuum pump/gauges, some LAPS will loan them too you for a fully refundable deposit.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 21st 2015, 11:43pm

I have another question. Where is the location of the orfice tube? Is there anything I should know about it?
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Mmusicman » September 22nd 2015, 12:33am

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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 22nd 2015, 12:44am

Wow, and I just got a Sams membership. As in, I haven't set foot in one yet. I know what I am doing tomorrow. And to think that I almost bought one on ebay.

Btw, thanks for the info.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 22nd 2015, 1:19am

I did another pressure check. Ambient temperature of 85F. This is too weird. The only thing that makes sense to me is the orfice tube must be clogged.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 22nd 2015, 1:22am

Is the location of the orfice tube at this brass nut?
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Mmusicman » September 22nd 2015, 2:05am

Astro Hole wrote:I have another question. Where is the location of the orfice tube? Is there anything I should know about it?

Yes, at the brass nut. The orifice tube is located inside this connection (down inside the lower tube). You MUST use two wrenches to open this connection, so as not to twist or damage the delicate aluminum lines.

orifice-tube-location.jpg

The orifice tube should be carefully pulled out with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Take note first of how deep it is located, and how it comes out. Also note the arrow on the new orifice tube upon re-installation.. the arrow points direction of flow (toward evaporator), which would be down in our case (as shown in this example photo.. not mine). Typically the little o-ring (at the pipes connection point) should be replaced. Regardless of reusing old, or new, wipe a tiny drop of oil on it when putting it back together.

The orifice tube I recently purchased for my van cost $1.99.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/toug ... ifice+tube

Be sure to keep system open to atmosphere a briefly as possible. Pull a deep vacuum on the system (before recharging) for about 1/2 hour... and be sure charging lines (on gauges) are purged of any air before charging.

The spec I found for my 2000 (with rear A/C) called for 48oz (3lbs). .. which I refilled with a 30lb tank and scale. Accuracy is up to you.

If I've missed anything... then someone chime in.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Astro Hole [OP] » September 22nd 2015, 2:59am

Thanks for the detailed reply. If the day goes well tomorrow, I should be elbows deep into this. Hopefully I have good news to report.
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Re: Help needed translating pressures.

Postby Mmusicman » September 22nd 2015, 5:40am

Changing a compressor and flushing a system would be something you would get "elbows deep" into... vacuuming and recharging however, is a pretty simple and basic job, so long as you have basic common sense and know what you are doing.

Good luck!

PS: Here are a couple photos from my last recharge (nothing particularly interesting):
(I should have gotten the tank on the bathroom scale...lol)

2015-09-07_14-14-26_658a.jpg
2015-09-07_14-14-26_658a.jpg (71.79 KiB) Viewed 817 times


2015-09-07_14-14-36_436a.jpg
2015-09-07_14-14-36_436a.jpg (58.04 KiB) Viewed 817 times


I don't think my system is ideal.. but it's closer than it was.
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