Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby JKlug81 [OP] » September 1st 2019, 1:59am

Looking at a '96 garage kept Astro with only 112k miles.
Interior and body are in perfect condition. By perfect, I mean it could almost be dealer new...
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Now, the reason I'm posting it here in Engines... Went to look in person, and as soon as it starts up, there is a loud knocking noise. It keeps with idle.
Talking to the person who had worked on it last, he's selling it for the owner, the oil pressure is good, and they cant really seem to get to the source of the noise. The owner said he would rather sell it than fix the issue. I am super interested in this van, but I would like to know what opinions are out there on this issue.

To me, it sounded like it was coming from the bottom of the engine. When you accelerate, the knock/ping/tick speeds up with the RPMs. The van has great acceleration. It doesn't seem to effect the performance, but it still worries me.

I want to make an offer, but a fair one.

Suggestions?>
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Astrofarian » September 1st 2019, 3:46am

It SHOULD worry you! Take a look or ask if the oil-cooler lines have been replaced or deleted recently. Loss of oil pressure from a failure in those lines is fatal to the bottom end of the engine if you don't get it shut down immediately.
Rod bearings CAN be done in-frame; mains POSSIBLY but a lot more work.
If this doesn't scare you off, start with a $500 offer and see what happens. You can always go up from there....but you can't go down!
Hope this helps, sorry if it comes off a bit pessimistic; there are unknowns here that your offer needs to reflect.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Mmusicman » September 1st 2019, 4:07am

A tick is very different than a knock.

A knock typically comes from a bad bearing, a rod beating against the crank.
This is pre-catastrophic damage which would require expensive engine pull and rebuild.

A tick however, can be as simple as an exhaust leak, a sticking hydraulic valve, or even a cracked flex-plate.. all possible minor issues. But a tick can also be a prelude to something worse happening in the lower end as well. My tick turned out to be a burnt piston wrist pin and broken piston skirt. This tick eventually turned into a knock.. all while the oil pressure remained strong. This engine went to the crusher.

As nice as the van is.. it would be a huge gamble to buy it with an engine knock... and most likely will cost you more to fix it than what the van is worth.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Big_kid » September 1st 2019, 6:00am

Could also be a cracked flexplate. Hard to tell without hearing/seeing it.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Rockridge » September 1st 2019, 1:39pm

Look up kbb or nada, subtract a crate engine plus labor and make an offer. 23 year old vehicle will have other maintenance issues beyond the engine noise so be prepared for that. It look nice but who needs a headache project! If the mechanic is giving up, what does that mean..... Keep us posted! I know what I would offer...
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby JKlug81 [OP] » September 1st 2019, 2:49pm

I think I'm going to go back and look at it again tomorrow.
Ill get a video of it so everyone can hear what's going on. Hopefully that will help with a diagnosis.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby AstroWill » September 1st 2019, 3:46pm

Rockridge wrote:Look up kbb or nada, subtract a crate engine plus labor and make an offer. 23 year old vehicle will have other maintenance issues beyond the engine noise so be prepared for that. It look nice but who needs a headache project! If the mechanic is giving up, what does that mean..... Keep us posted!


So what you are saying is that he should offer to haul it away if the guy pays him $1200 to take it ;)

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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Rockridge » September 1st 2019, 5:32pm

Worst they can say is no! Lol
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Astrofarian » September 1st 2019, 6:07pm

Rockridge wrote:Worst they can say is no! Lol


:thumbup:

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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby JKlug81 [OP] » September 1st 2019, 9:46pm

Ive got it all setup with the seller to take another look at it.
I will get a video with the sound so we can hopefully get the issue pinned.

Ive already told the seller I am interested in the van, but I don't want to be elbow deep in the engine.
He said that was understandable. Do my research and make a fair offer. The seller is motivated to move the van.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby AstroWill » September 1st 2019, 9:56pm

Rockridge wrote:Worst they can say is no! Lol

So very true.

JKlug81 wrote:Ive got it all setup with the seller to take another look at it.
I will get a video with the sound so we can hopefully get the issue pinned.


Just don't expect an accurate diagnosis from a video. Take it to a trustworthy mechanic if you really want to know what condition it's in.

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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Astro Pop » September 1st 2019, 10:33pm

Just make an offer assuming it will need an engine. That is probably what the owner was told, if it was simple he really wouldn't be selling it. Someone who took such meticulous care of it wouldn't just walk away from a simple problem. Count on an engine and buy it accordingly. If they don't accept your offer and you buy it anyways, how will you feel about it when it needs an engine? A good purchase? If it's too good to be true.....IT IS!
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby paulo57509 » September 3rd 2019, 1:34am

Engine knock is a hit or miss thing, at least in my experience it's never really hurt me in the wallet very much.

Like other's have said, if you can get the van cheap enough it might be a worthwhile pick up.

If it's a double knock (listen carefully) it's usually a wrist pin/connecting rod. My old '63 Bonneville had a wrist pin knock which got quiet as the engine reached operating temperature. I never noticed excessive oil consumption. The engine had been rebuilt at ~140k miles; I ran that engine like that until I rebuilt it at 320k miles. Number 8 cylinder wall was scored; no doubt that's where the noise was coming from.

I bought a super clean '82 Bonneville with a 4.1L V6 with 121k miles that had a stripped cam sprocket. I bought it as-is and never heard it run. I replaced the timing set and it fired right up. Only thing was it sounded like a diesel, the knocking was that bad; stripped nylon cam sprockets usually means that the oil wasn't changed regularly.

I drove the car another +120k miles before donating it.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Sailing_Faith » September 3rd 2019, 1:56am

As you record the video, make sure to move around the van. Sounds are different below (ticking like a flex plate) or above... record both sides too, then post a link to the video here.

Here is a weird one I made.... rod bearing gone way bad... https://www.astrosafari.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=53306

I would have no problem buying that van... $500 - $750... drop the pan and check the rod bearings... maybe change a bearing or drop a remanufactured engine in it.... drive it. Looks like it is in amazing shape. :rockon:

Best of luck whatever you do.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Rockridge » September 4th 2019, 2:20am

So do you own this thing yet or what?!

I actually had better luck with an ebay compression tested & warrantied used motor when I resusitated a 1992 golf years ago for like $500 delivered (clean!) from California to NH than I did with a locally rebuilt & (uselessly warrantied) subaru engine for the Outback I should have left outback. The Golf had great power, no leaks or issues. The subie guy forgot a wrist pin so at 800 miles, kaboom. Second engine he provided has leaking valve seals at 2000 miles. If you can score the van for cheap, buying a warrantied used motor might be something to consider. Keep that investment low!

And try to get them to throw out the first # out there! Good luck
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby JKlug81 [OP] » September 4th 2019, 2:31am

I'll add the video later. I looked at it with a friend who knows more about this kind of thing than I do. He instantly identified it as a lifter. With closer inspection it also needs tires, alignment, and a new cat, all minor.

I threw out a starting price of 500. He instantly said no deal. I told him I was still interested anyway and asked what kind of deal he is looking for. He doesn't know it's just a lifter. When I gave the 1st offer, I told him it was so low because I may have to rebuild it. He said he would get back to me soon.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby JKlug81 [OP] » September 4th 2019, 5:10pm

Hate to double post, but here's the video.
The first half is just poking around to hear the tick from all angles. The 2nd half is just a walk around of the outside and interior for a feel of how great of shape this van is in.


Analyze away.
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby Sailing_Faith » September 4th 2019, 5:44pm

You weren’t kidding... it look great!

I disagree with your friend though, I don’t think it’s a lifter. I think you are hearing a rod bearing.... might be able to drop the pan and change it (others have), but that body is definitely worth a new motor if not.

Hope it does not go to a junkyard...
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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby AstroWill » September 4th 2019, 7:17pm

Does look to be in nice condition, and that might be hard to find in IN. Either way man, make sure to do your math and be realistic in your expectations and calculations.

Good luck!

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Re: Super Clean 96 with 112k miles has a knock/ping/tick

Postby paulo57509 » September 4th 2019, 7:31pm

That sound is not coming from the lower end. If anything, it's coming from the valve train, IMO.

Could be something as stupid as an exhaust leak or a loose spark plug.
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