intermittent stalling

Re: intermittent stalling

Postby Leeann_93 » April 2nd 2021, 3:32am

Wiki depends upon submissions by users. It sucks. Balls.

In other words, wiki is wrong. What I typed is correct.

CPI = CPFI =Central Point Fuel Injection = Central Injector fired simultaneously, 6 poppet valves out on stalks (in other words, the injector fires every time a cylinder fires)
CSFI = Central Sequential Fuel Injection = Central Injector fired sequentially, 6 poppet valves out on stalks (in other words, the injector only fires the cylinder that needs fuel)
MFI = Central Metering Body, 6 injectors out on stalks (the central metering body only regulates the fuel pressure. Each injector fires as needed.)
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby N6KB » April 2nd 2021, 7:47am

In the list of parts that were changed I did not see the ICM or the Ignition Coil included. This really sounds like an intermittent electrical failure to me. A wire that has insulation damaged and is shorting to ground or a connector that is loosing contact. I suggest unplugging, applying DeOxit contact cleaner and re-plugging every connector you can get to. Especially the connectors on the Ignition Control Module and the Coil. Be careful not to damage any connector. It seems like there are dozens of connector latching schemes and you have to figure out each one to unplug each connector. That may be the hardest part of the job. While you are looking for all the connectors to unplug and re-plug carefully inspect all wires looking for damage.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby sixsix » April 2nd 2021, 2:05pm

Leeann_93 wrote:Wiki depends upon submissions by users. It sucks. Balls.

Did not doubt, only added - not all I said was from Wiki - witness:

1996–2001 VIN W = 4.3V6 = SCPI poppet valves All of the 96-2001 can be upgraded to MPFI using the proper kit/spider. https://amzn.to/3rafCmf
2002-2005 VIN X = 4.3V6 =LU3 = MPFI individual injectors

and...

1996–2001 SCPI 190 hp (140 kW) at 4,400 rpm 250 lb·ft (339 N·m) at 2,800 rpm SCPI 9.2:1 L35
2002–2005 MPFI 190 hp (140 kW) at 4,400 rpm 250 lb·ft (339 N·m) at 2,800 rpm MPFI 9.2:1 LU3

All 4 statements from Will's Google site. https://sites.google.com/site/astrosafa ... uel-system
Which of my Wiki quotes were wrong?

What about that 2002 L35 w/ SCPI Statement?

And I was wondering... ( as usual, I know I should try to cut back )
- In your 3 FI system's definitions, you do not mention SCPI... was it not avail on the Vans?


And as the last statement I made in my last post about Wiki not always being believable...
- I do rely on you, Leeann and Will to be "the last word"... most of the time.
.

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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby AstroWill » April 3rd 2021, 10:49pm

justoneman wrote:
Leeann_93 wrote:No. You have MFI, which is 2002 and up.

Nope CMFI is 1992 to 1995. Just read it in the Haynes.


Listen to Leeann, she knows what she is talking about.

Different MFGs/FSMs/3rd party manual writers/etc will call things differently and sometimes it changes over time as well. If that is what the book is calling it, then yes refer to it as CMFI for THAT BOOK. Language is great that way.
Is it an extended cab, king cab, extra cab, double cab, etc? Depends on who made it, how we are feeling today and how we want to market it.

C = Central
P = Port or Point
S = Sequential
M or MP = Multi-point
FI = Fuel injection.

CPI is the same as CPFI
MFI is the same as MPFI

Add it up however you want, key differences in our years are like Leeann said.
CPI/CPFI fires all cylinders at once, and is why it didn't require a crank position sensor, because it didn't matter which cyl needs fuel, they are all going to get fuel at the same time.
CSFI fires each cylinder sequentially through poppet valves. This style can be upgraded to avoid the problems caused by poppet valves, because it's already doing sequential injection.
MFI/MPFI fires each cylinder sequentially through individual injectors at each port.

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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 4th 2021, 12:39am

rorgeastro wrote:My 2000 Astro Cargo van stalled intermittently when I first got it.. Usually during turns. It turned out to be a loose side terminal battery bolt. The aftermarket battery had a recessed thread which allowed the short OEM bolt to cam out..it looked tight but wasn't.

So here is my update

I went about looking at the wire harness with the dog house off I could see the plastic encasement was decayed badly. I started up the engine which immediately stalled so I started inspecting the wire harness. I removed all the encasement and opened the metal hold downs. I gently lifted up the harness a bit and got it AWAY from the valve cover. I again started the engine and it did not stall. I thought maybe some wire might have grounded out there and thinking perhaps my moving the harness might stop the immediate grounding, if there was some. I took the van for a spin and on the second turn it stalled out. This time I had the dog house off so I heard a loud snapping like one gets from an electrical grounding. Then it dawned on me that I had not yet checked the battery connection. When I got back home I saw that the negative post connection was quite loose! I tightened it up and drove the van all day with no problems. Could it be that the mechanic of the previous owner Did all of this work replacing components over the course of a year and a half and it was only the side post connection kept coming loose? I put some new plastic encasement around the section of the harness and got it away from the valve cover. Really I drove the van around a lot today and not a hint of the stalling problem. Time will tell of course. One thing is for sure, It is not a fuel issue. The electrical snapping noise I heard was clear evidence of that.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby AstroWill » April 4th 2021, 3:28am

justoneman wrote:Then it dawned on me that I had not yet checked the battery connection. When I got back home I saw that the negative post connection was quite loose! I tightened it up and drove the van all day with no problems. Could it be that the mechanic of the previous owner Did all of this work replacing components over the course of a year and a half and it was only the side post connection kept coming loose?


Yep, it can be as simple as that.

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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 4th 2021, 11:03pm

Put a bunch of miles on the Astro today. No stalling, Im 99% sure the problem is solved. I am still in shock. The previous owner sold it for a low price because of the chronic stalling that his mechanic could not solve. He said he would take it in and the mechanic would replace a bunch of parts and the problem would be solved for a couple of months, Obviously now the battery terminals were loose, the mechanic would replace a bunch of parts and tighten the battery terminals and everything would be fine for a few months, So replace the o2 sensor and the plugs and wires and tighten the battery, Replace the main module and tighten the battery, Replace the coil and fuel filter and tighten the battery, A lot of mechanics these days do not properly analyze they just replace parts. Either that was this mechanic or even worse; He could have been tightening the battery posts and unnecessarily doing the other stuff to make money. He was angry about the mechanic, I have half a mind to text him about what I figured out, Maybe that would be cruel,
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 7th 2021, 12:51am

Another update. I drove the van all weekend. I then drove it to work Monday, a 62 mile round trip. Then today I drove it to work with no problems. I started the van up to drive home from work. I rounded the exit of the parking lot and it stalled out. I coasted to a stop on the side street and put it in park and then attempted to start the engine. It would not start It turned over but no ignition. I figured the side post battery came loose again. I popped the hood and indeed it was a little bit loose. ust slightly. I tightened it up and again the engine cranked but no spark. Several tries and nothing. I gave up and pushed the car in the work parking lot, as a coworker was there and gave me a ride home. This stall seemed to me unrelated in a way. Or at least the lack of firing up after the stall did. It never did absolutely nothing in the past. It always started right away even when the bad battery connection made it die right away. It is odd to me so tomorrow I will go check for spark and see what the deal is with that.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby zGerman » April 7th 2021, 2:46am

Idle is controlled by the Idle Control Valve. Is easy to replace after you remove the dog house. That was the cause on mine twice, mostly running fine but sometimes it died when coming to a stop. On my 2001 the part is called "IACV IAC Idle Air Control Valve 17113598 AC234"
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby vangogo » April 7th 2021, 3:06am

Just thought I would throw in a gremlin I had dealt with about 5 years ago, (which may or may not be useful). My '99 would on occasion have a random 'hic-up' or stumble, I checked alot of the same stuff you did, all the tune up stuff looked good, had a fairly new fuel pump, finally found the crank position sensor had the insulation wore off on one wire, and would occasionally ground on the oil pan. Has run smooth ever since.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 7th 2021, 11:13pm

zGerman wrote:Idle is controlled by the Idle Control Valve. Is easy to replace after you remove the dog house. That was the cause on mine twice, mostly running fine but sometimes it died when coming to a stop. On my 2001 the part is called "IACV IAC Idle Air Control Valve 17113598 AC234"

Yes could be but this seems to happen at speed randomly, Not really like a bog down coming to a stop.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 7th 2021, 11:15pm

vangogo wrote:Just thought I would throw in a gremlin I had dealt with about 5 years ago, (which may or may not be useful). My '99 would on occasion have a random 'hic-up' or stumble, I checked alot of the same stuff you did, all the tune up stuff looked good, had a fairly new fuel pump, finally found the crank position sensor had the insulation wore off on one wire, and would occasionally ground on the oil pan. Has run smooth ever since.
Very much a possibility I shall look into.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby AstroWill » April 8th 2021, 5:25am

justoneman wrote:Another update. I drove the van all weekend. I then drove it to work Monday, a 62 mile round trip. Then today I drove it to work with no problems. I started the van up to drive home from work. I rounded the exit of the parking lot and it stalled out. I coasted to a stop on the side street and put it in park and then attempted to start the engine. It would not start It turned over but no ignition. I figured the side post battery came loose again. I popped the hood and indeed it was a little bit loose. ust slightly. I tightened it up and again the engine cranked but no spark. Several tries and nothing. I gave up and pushed the car in the work parking lot, as a coworker was there and gave me a ride home. This stall seemed to me unrelated in a way. Or at least the lack of firing up after the stall did. It never did absolutely nothing in the past. It always started right away even when the bad battery connection made it die right away. It is odd to me so tomorrow I will go check for spark and see what the deal is with that.


While it might not sound like a good thing, a hard failure is so much better than an intermittent failure. This could be the thing that leads you to the answer. :)

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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 10th 2021, 1:20am

AstroWill wrote:While it might not sound like a good thing, a hard failure is so much better than an intermittent failure. This could be the thing that leads you to the answer. :)

Because my van stalled out at my work place which is right next to a shop I have had work done before, I decided to drop it off to have them have a look at it. They told me that they analyzed for codes and found none. There was no engine light on after the stall and non-start, by the way. Interesting enough the next day after the stall and no start it started right up and sounded great. I was not feeling comfortable driving it home 31 miles, so that is why I brought it to the shop. So I have learned nothing. Well I learned that whatever caused the stall and no start, did not result in a code.
Last edited by justoneman on April 10th 2021, 3:54am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby justoneman [OP] » April 10th 2021, 1:21am

justoneman wrote:
vangogo wrote:Just thought I would throw in a gremlin I had dealt with about 5 years ago, (which may or may not be useful). My '99 would on occasion have a random 'hic-up' or stumble, I checked alot of the same stuff you did, all the tune up stuff looked good, had a fairly new fuel pump, finally found the crank position sensor had the insulation wore off on one wire, and would occasionally ground on the oil pan. Has run smooth ever since.
Very much a possibility I shall look into.

Did your grounding out of the crank sensor result in a code error?
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Re: intermittent stalling

Postby vangogo » April 10th 2021, 3:49am

no codes...thats what made if so much fun =P
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