New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby davesyo » June 7th 2008, 3:47am

What about the ignition module ?
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » June 8th 2008, 12:58am

davesyo wrote:What about the ignition module ?


Put in a new Ignition Control Module as well! Didn't replace the Cam Sensor or the Crankshaft Sensor or the EGR. Enough is Enough!! As a little side note- I took my daughter to work this morning and it was running like Crap(not as bad as when it's warmed up but you could still feel the "miss") anyway, I noticed it was time to add some Liquid Gold as I was down to 1/4 of a tank. I filled her up and she ran ALOT better going home!! If it's ANOTHER Fuel Pump, I'm not gonna be a happy camper!! I'm taking it to a different shop and I don't have a clue on how to get the Pump replaced under warranty!
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » June 8th 2008, 6:19am

DonK
Were jumping all over the board again. You really need to get a grasp on this Don and focus on one thing at a time for it to make any sense because you will be checking yourself in if you don't. Step 1- Spark. Was the Coil checked correctly for strong spark? You mentioned that last Cap was an OEM Cap but said you cleaned the brass posts off that had white stuff on it. OEM Caps don't have brass posts. So lets concentrate on this area. Is this an OEM Cap or not? If so, can you please explain why their is brass fittings in the OEM cap as you mentioned. This is very important to know at this point in your trouble shooting Don. Did the Box that the cap came in say AC Delco on it? OEM comes with Aluminum posts not brass. Is their a strong "blue" spark when you pull the coil wire off at the cap when the motor is running? This is important to do as well Don. Let's focus on spark first then move on to the other source that can cause this problem.

Might I suggest you not go under 1/3 of a tank? 1/4 is really pushing it from my own personal experience and 5 fuel pumps later after 12 years of owning my van. Does the fuel cap release any pressure when you loosen up when you take it off to fill up? Please don't take this the wrong way Don, were here to help not hinder or ridicule in anyway but you need to do what is suggested to help us help you without us actually being their. Please keep us updated, Thanks Don. :)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » June 8th 2008, 10:40am

Matrixx- I'm not taking it the wrong way, I appreciate all the help!! The Second cap I purchased is supposed to be Napa's OEM cap (can't find ANY AC Delco caps without goin to the Dealer)- box said Delphi not AC Delco but also NOT Brass this time. The new Coil DOES say AC Delco on the box and I'm "assuming" it's good! I'm not exactly sure how to pull the coil wire from the cap when the van is running, it doesn't seem to me that it would stay running long enough to check the spark?
I'm dropping it off at the shop tonight, I've listed all the previous work done and the New Parts put in. HOPEFULLY they'll be able to tell me what the heck is wrong with it!!!
I'll keep you posted

By the way- The fuel cap doesn't release any pressure when I take it off (not that I've noticed anyway) but it never did b-4 this problem either. Is it supposed to??
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby grogzero » June 8th 2008, 11:50pm

Hey Don, what I did to check the spark was use an old wire and plug that I had just replaced in an attempt to fix rough running issues. I pulled one of the spark plug wires off the cap and stuck the old wire and spark plug onto it. I used a screwdriver to press the metal of the plug against some grounded metal and started the engine. If you don't have any of your old wires hanging around you should be able to pull the wire off #6 to use. I wouldn't take a plug out though. That's a lot of work.

My spark was yellow, not blue, so I replaced the coil. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but that might have fixed my problem.

Oh, and my fuel cap doesn't hiss or anything when I open it either. Not that my Astro is a remarkable benchmark specimen.
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » June 9th 2008, 5:10am

Hi DonK
Ok thanks for shedding some light on the matter. Delphi is a good product and makes the Delco parts for GM or did when I last check a couple years ago. No problem their, if you have Delphi Cap it should be the same as OEM Delco. Delco coil is good and I see you replaced that as well. If you have had the fuel pump change and it is running at Specs, then I would focus Fuel Pressure Regulator-Spider-IAC-EGR-MAP-MAF-Temp Sensor next. If everything was fine their, then I would check for a plugged PCV Valve or CAT. and Vacuum Leaks. A scanner with Live Readings would help a great deal to eliminate the Sensor end of it. As for the fuel Cap, that is a good sign that you "don't" hear any hissing from it when you take it off, if their was, then your cap is faulty and not allowing the pressure to release properly from the fuel tank and this can cause a whole host of problems with the fuel injection system. Could you please keep us updated, Thanks. :)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » June 9th 2008, 9:37am

Will Do!! Dropped it off last night. I STILL think it's the Fuel Pump tho! Follow me on this- Pin Hole or small crack in output line- Runs fine until the Pin Hole is exposed by the fuel level dropping, then starts to loose it's prime. By shutting the van OFF for a few seconds and then re-starting it "re-primes" itself and runs marginally well until it sucks too much air again??

It doesn't explain ALL the problems and is probably wishful thinking but it's a Rookie "shot in the dark" I'll post what the Pro's tell me!
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » June 10th 2008, 10:21am

The Verdict is IN!! After 3 Hours of troubleshooting, dropping the Cat, and 2 test drives they figured out it was the FUEL PUMP!!! or to be specific, the wiring TO the Fuel Pump. Apparently the first "PROFESSIONAL" didn't realize that the Connection at the top of the pump shouldn't be all GREEN and Corroded and the Ground at the frame needs to be clean and tight!! The pump was drawing 11 Amps ( I guess that's bad) and was "Self Destructing" over a period of time. When he put a Pressure Tap on it and opened it up, the Van just DIED. What I don't understand is why it didn't blow a Fuse if it was drawing so much more than it should have???
Anyway, $785.00 later I'm REALLY HOPING that the ride into work this morning is Uneventful. I'm taking the Old Pump back to the 1st Shop because they Graciously offered to refund my money on the pump!! No mention was made of any labor refunds or the Useless O2 Sensor they put in!
I think I may have found a Shop to maintain my Vehicles in my Golden Years. At least these guys took the time to Diagnose the problem and didn't just plug the Scanner in and start throwing parts at it!!
Thanks again for ALL the help guy's- Hopefully this thread can just FADE Away into Oblivion (along with the First Shop I went to) :cussing:
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » June 11th 2008, 3:53am

Hi DonK
Wow, talk about entering the twilight zone. I was making another post up after you mentioned your thoughts about the air leak (crack) in the fuel supply line when I remembered my fuel pump wiring was bad and had heated up to a point where it had so much resistance in the harness, it wouldn't function properly. After 2 fuel pumps and re-assurance from the first mechanic everything was fine their I didn't give it a second thought until you mentioned your thoughts on the matter.

Well as I was ready to post my thoughts about the wiring, The power goes out for 8 hours, go figure. Oh well, The important thing here is you Have the van running well now and you found a mechanic that seems to know what he's doing. Thanks for the update. I would really like to see this post stay for awhile so anyone else that comes across the same problem, can learn from your experience with yours. Take Care
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » June 11th 2008, 10:25am

The drive into work was a Real Treat !! No hesitation or sputtering. I forgot how nice it feels not to worry about catching every Red Light! When I took the pump back to the "Garage" for my money back, the "mechanic" wouldn't even look at me! I don't know, maybe it's just me but, if I had done the work, I would have been at least curious about what was wrong, I guess that just shows what kind of guy he really is!
Now it's on to the Water Pump! The mech. @ the Real Shop told me I have a small leak in the pump gasket that I'd better take care of. But that'll be Another Post :D

Thanks again for taking the time to Share your Knowledge and Experience!! You guys are the BEST
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » March 10th 2009, 3:28pm

I HATE Astro's!!! (GM for that matter) It's been a whole 9 Months after all this and now the van is sitting in the driveway and WON'T START!! We had some cold misty weather the last few days and I was on the way to the store when I noticed a miss in it. I wouldn't rev up. When I came out, she fired right up and ran fine? Yesterday morning I had a meeting @ the Unemployment Office (got Laid-Off 4 weeks ago) and the friggen thing wouldn't start! It's turns over but no start!

It's a '97 2WD Astro with 9 month old : Fuel Pump, Ign. Coil, ICM, Plugs, Wires, Cap+Rotor (Delco). I replaced the Cap again because the Coil terminal appeared to be "burned" it was brown, not silver like the others. The little collar around the Coil Wire lead end (hard to describe) was broken as well which caused it not to "snap" onto the burnt terminal. I have spark going to the plugs and there is a blue spark at the end of the coil wire. It just will not start!! Being out of work, I would rather try to fix this myself but, I can't be throwing alot of parts at it AGAIN! I guess my first task is to check the Fuel Pressure but I am open to ANY suggestions after that! Crank Position Sensor??? ect.
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » March 10th 2009, 6:33pm

It's running again! I put a light in the engine compartment for a couple of hours and then went out and hit the ICM and coil with the Heat Gun and it fired right up! Now the SES light is on but I imagine that will go out after a couple of cycles! I guess not driving to work every day is taking a toll on the old girl as well as me! I sprayed some WD40 on the parts and we'll see what happens. It's raining (AGAIN) so I'll wait to put the doghouse back on til tomorrow (just in case) well: I think it's time for a nap (LOL)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » March 11th 2009, 1:00am

Hi DonK

It can be stressful at times for sure (especially intermittents like you have) . When that happens, look at it as problem that can be solved and start with the basics every time (fuel-air-spark) and work into it from their. Blue spark is good on the coil side, what was it like on the spark plug side? spraying WD40 helps a "great" deal in preventing moisture build up and corrosion, I use it all the time with mine.

Yes the Crank sensor can cause a no start condition.

Just a suggestion here Don, is to only repalce parts that need replacing. It sounds like you threw a wack of money and parts at it hoping it will cure the problem and apparently it didn't, I can't think of a faster way to be put in the poor house than that.

If it needed the parts, then chalk it up as normal wear and tear. Running the "correct" parts is "Vital" with these vans with certain applications. Delco is a must for ignition parts if you want a dependable vehicle (I'm glad to see you have done that).

I'm glad to see the SES light is on. Have the codes read as well, this "should" steer you in the direction of the fault. Please have the codes read if you can and let us know what they are. We will do our best to help you with this problem. Some auto parts stores will do this for you for a small fee (or maybe even free of charge with some places). Phone around with your local auto part stores.

I'm sure others will chime in if they can, please keep us updated, Thanks.:)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » March 11th 2009, 1:24am

Hi DonK

After viewing your first posts and how this all came about, I'm thinking a faulty fuel pump might be the problem here (and the first thing I would look at closely before moving onto other areas). Ask the shop what name brand of fuel pump they put in it? (Delco/Delphi) are my only suggestions here. They will know the answer to that question for sure.

Was the fuel filter replaced when they replaced the pump? This "seems" to have started after the fuel pump replacement. Always go back to what was done last that may have started this problem (fuel pump). Check the fuel pressure in all phases (start-up,idling,driving).

Hope this helps, please keep us updated, thanks.:)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby DonK [OP] » March 11th 2009, 12:36pm

Matrixx- As usual, thanks for the cool headed assessment of the situation. All those parts I listed were put in 10 months ago when I was having the Fuel Pump issues. The first 2 pumps were eaten alive by a corroded wiring harness that the "shop" missed. She has been running like a top up until yesterday. We have had some REALLY wet weather up here and I guess it just didn't like sitting for a few days. (probably thought I was bored and needed something to do).
I'll get it over to AZ today and have the codes pulled and let you know the outcome.
Thanks again
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby Matrixx » March 11th 2009, 12:56pm

Hi DonK

Yes, please keep us updated,thanks.:)
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Re: New Fuel Pump-New Problems

Postby astro355 » March 11th 2009, 8:27pm

What I would do in your situation is put a fuel pressure gauge on it and leave it on it for at least a week. That way you can witness the fuel pressure and see if it does anything funny.
Diagnose 1st, never be a parts changer!

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djpigs
in Engines
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Date: Oct 27 '20
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