Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 2nd 2009, 2:13pm

Hi all...

First of a few posts here needing some assistance...

OK the background....the Safari i got has clocked over 210,000 miles and has been throwing a code for a while to do with the EGR valve (think it was "EGR Pintle Position Circuit Failure" and it was absoultely terrible to drive, no power, no acceleration etc...so i went out and spent loads of money :( and got a new replacement EGR valve.

Fitted this no problem (have removed the one that was fitted on there before to clean it!) and the old one that came off was really chocked up with soot and was black and orrible, i cleaned what i could out of the hole in the engine block and cleaned the surface and refitted the new EGR valve.

Started up, cleared the code and no error codes being thrown now (hurrah), but, and its a big un, the van is "better" but its still realllly bad to drive in so much as it has very little acceleration, to start then it seems to get into a power range and the acceleration is tehre, but then it runs out of power and then has to struggle to change gear, then when it does it cant accelerate again.

Also the engine (according to a mate of mine) sounds very flat and has an "odd" low tone to it - he thinks air / fuel is wrong somehow...

In the past month i have changed Rotor arm, distrubutor cap, HT leads & plugs so they should all be fine, it will be this weekend getting a new air filter, fuel filter, oil change, oil filter, trans filter, trans fluid and coolant change but is there anything else anyone can think of that would cause it to be lacking in power and off song so to speak??

Cheers

ian
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby gtkane » June 3rd 2009, 4:48am

Sounds like your converter is plugged.

Loosen up the flange bolts at the manifolds so the pipe hangs down a bit and see if there is power now.
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby Matrixx » June 3rd 2009, 7:06am

X2 on gtkanes suggestion, and might I ask exactly what plug type and number you put in? This is a rare case but happened to me when I did a plug change. I got the correct plugs stated on the package, but the wrong plugs were inside. I didn't notice this until I fired it up and tried moving somewhere.

It just kept falling on it's face with no power at all. Once I found the problem (always go back to the last thing done that may have caused this problem) and replaced the plugs with the correct ones, it was back to normal. Just a thought.

Have you replaced the fuel filter lately? Thanks.:)
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby astro355 » June 3rd 2009, 1:08pm

Yes, I have to agree with both of them. The old clogged EGR was masking a different problem. Once you cleared out the EGR port and replace the EGR, it fixed that problem only to show you another. If I had a dollar (actually, make it a euro) for every time I had that happen.
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 3rd 2009, 3:56pm

gtkane wrote:Sounds like your converter is plugged.

Loosen up the flange bolts at the manifolds so the pipe hangs down a bit and see if there is power now.


Hi

OK stupid question time - what flange bolts....the ones to the exhaust manifold or ???? (not quite sure what you mean!)

thanks!
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 3rd 2009, 3:59pm

Matrixx wrote:X2 on gtkanes suggestion, and might I ask exactly what plug type and number you put in? This is a rare case but happened to me when I did a plug change. I got the correct plugs stated on the package, but the wrong plugs were inside. I didn't notice this until I fired it up and tried moving somewhere.

It just kept falling on it's face with no power at all. Once I found the problem (always go back to the last thing done that may have caused this problem) and replaced the plugs with the correct ones, it was back to normal. Just a thought.

Have you replaced the fuel filter lately? Thanks.:)


The plugs its got are the Platinum tipped AC 41-932 if i remember right...apparently the correct ones according to the book (and they bloody expensive to buy as well!!)

The initial problem was a random misfire so i replcaed the whole shooting matrch, rotor, cap, leads & plugs and that fixed that problem!
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 3rd 2009, 4:00pm

astro355 wrote:Yes, I have to agree with both of them. The old clogged EGR was masking a different problem. Once you cleared out the EGR port and replace the EGR, it fixed that problem only to show you another. If I had a dollar (actually, make it a euro) for every time I had that happen.


Hmm it does seem like i fix one thing and then summat else crops up :(
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby gtkane » June 5th 2009, 3:52am

ianjpage wrote:
gtkane wrote:Sounds like your converter is plugged.

Loosen up the flange bolts at the manifolds so the pipe hangs down a bit and see if there is power now.


Hi

OK stupid question time - what flange bolts....the ones to the exhaust manifold or ???? (not quite sure what you mean!)

thanks!


The 3 bolts at the bottom of the manifold where the pipe hooks up.
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby Matrixx » June 5th 2009, 4:20am

AC 41-932?

It should be AC 41-993 for your year in the Platinum line ianjpage.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carco ... ttype,7212

Can you check that as well as to what's already been suggested? Thanks.:)
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby gtkane » June 5th 2009, 4:23am

Nice call!
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 5th 2009, 8:57am

Matrixx wrote:AC 41-932?

It should be AC 41-993 for your year in the Platinum line ianjpage.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carco ... ttype,7212

Can you check that as well as to what's already been suggested? Thanks.:)


Hmm interesting as if i read the info on those plugs:

ACDELCO Part # 41993 More Info {PLATINUM PLUG; GAP PRE-SET AT FACTORY, DO NOT RE-GAP; replaces 41-932 #12607234, 25162556, 41932}
SPARK PLUG .060 GAP

It kinda says the 993's replace the 932's (which is what's in there) so i wonder if they are same and just superceeding the 932's or if they are different in someway...

I was going to clean the plugs anyho so will take a look and see what i got fer sure and what state they in....will the 932's vc 993's actually make much difference though ?
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 5th 2009, 8:58am

gtkane wrote:
ianjpage wrote:
gtkane wrote:Sounds like your converter is plugged.

Loosen up the flange bolts at the manifolds so the pipe hangs down a bit and see if there is power now.


Hi

OK stupid question time - what flange bolts....the ones to the exhaust manifold or ???? (not quite sure what you mean!)

thanks!


The 3 bolts at the bottom of the manifold where the pipe hooks up.


ahhh ok thank you i understand now :ty:
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 15th 2009, 10:57pm

Well finally managed to find time tonight to have a go at the cat issue with a mate of mine.....we elected to disconnect one side (passenger) of the "Y" pipe totally and leave the other (drivers side) connected to try and see if the cat blocked...

Short answer - **** yeah - i have never known the van pull so hard and quick - it was a totally differnt beast to drive...so im pretty sure the cat is blocked!

My next question is can i simply knock the inards of the CAT out to get me by - emissions won't be a problem as they are very lientient over here, and i need it testing soon so dont have the time / money to get a new replacement one - so my mate said just smash the inside of the cat out - shouldn't cause any problems but i wanted to check first before doing it- thouights???
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby Matrixx » June 16th 2009, 2:08am

Hi ianjpage

Their is going to be a bit of problem with that "smahing" method. Unfortunately, the computer isn't set-up that way for you to just hollow it out like that. The computer must see a difference it readings from the front O2 sensor and the rear O2 sensor after the cat. If it doesn't see this difference, you will get an SES light for you year.

If it's plugged wouldn't it be wiser to go through emissions with it plugged to give lower readings? Just a thought.:)

It takes a Stage 3 Cat. for your year.:)
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby astro355 » June 16th 2009, 5:52am

Besides, if you hollow that cat out, you will get headaches from the resonation it creates. Best to just replace it.
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 16th 2009, 11:18am

Matrixx wrote:Hi ianjpage

Their is going to be a bit of problem with that "smahing" method. Unfortunately, the computer isn't set-up that way for you to just hollow it out like that. The computer must see a difference it readings from the front O2 sensor and the rear O2 sensor after the cat. If it doesn't see this difference, you will get an SES light for you year.

If it's plugged wouldn't it be wiser to go through emissions with it plugged to give lower readings? Just a thought.:)

It takes a Stage 3 Cat. for your year.:)


Ah thats a bit of a pain then :(: although its had a SES light for ages cos of a misfire lol!!

Hmm, yes and no - its got to allow a certain amount through and be held at certain rev's and the engine is really not happy at the moment...

Cheers for that..have to see if i can get a 'generic' cat for it then....might have to try and see what it does and how bad an error code it throws witha hollow cat as it needs testing sooner rather than later
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby ianjpage [OP] » June 16th 2009, 11:19am

astro355 wrote:Besides, if you hollow that cat out, you will get headaches from the resonation it creates. Best to just replace it.


hehe yeah it was somewhat noisy with the pipe disconnected yesterday - sounded nice though, just bloody noisy!!!
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Re: Engine "flat" and not right after EGR change

Postby astro355 » June 16th 2009, 3:44pm

ianjpage wrote:
Cheers for that..have to see if i can get a 'generic' cat for it then....might have to try and see what it does and how bad an error code it throws witha hollow cat as it needs testing sooner rather than later


What kind of testing are you talking about? If you are referring to emissions testing, the van will fail with a hollowed out cat.
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