intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » May 31st 2014, 3:07am

2000 Safari 177K. For years I've been getting intermittent cylinder 4 misfire it has driven me crazy. During that time, when it gets bad enough, I've changed coil, plugs, wires and dist cap. Just went through a long process trying to get some ignition noise out of an amp I had installed recently. That involved several dusk arc inspections with the cowl off, new dist cap and slight rerouting of the plug wires.

That problem seems to have disappeared, checked both the #4 plug wire and coil wire both were well under 30K ohm spec. So wondering where to go from here. For the past 3 days I'm getting a constant miss, cleared P0304 codes 4 times, all with cylinder 4 misfires. I'm no mechanic, but do my own work for the most part.

In the 100-120k range I had the injectors cleaned with a Carquest machine, and have replaced the intake manifold gasket set for leakage. I'm thinking it's in the #4 injector, but if I have to tear down the intake, I'm going to replace it all with the upgraded spider injector set.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » May 31st 2014, 3:31am

A leaking spider injector can cause this. Was the plug wet when you looked at it? How does the plug look compared to the other plugs? ever smell slight fuel smell under the hood?

To test you can hook a fuel pressure gauge up to the test port on the rear of the intake. Cycle the key on and watch the pressure go up. Turn the key off and see how long the gauge show good pressure. should be over 35psi for atleast a few minutes, but really half a day or so. So if the pressure dives fast back to zero you have a leaking injector.

Could also be a leaking upper intake gasket, but a vacuum leak would usually give off a p0300 random missfire. While the engine is running spray small shots of brake cleaner around the intake near or around cylinder #4. If the idle changes ever so slightly you have a vacuum leak.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » May 31st 2014, 3:55am

Also worth mentioning, if you have access to a decent scan tool with live data, check the live short term fuel trims. a negative fuel trim ie: -.10 is rich and say +.10 is lean. The short term fuel trims at idle should bounce from + to - and back and forth near zero. if you see that the trim is in the negative or positive and not getting close to zero it is running either rich or lean.

If you do happen to have a vacuum leak, you can watch the short term fuel trims on the scanner while you spray brake cleaner around the intake. Once you spray the area that is leaking you will see on the scan tool show short term fuel trim get real rich (-) fast!
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » May 31st 2014, 4:56am

Thanks for your quick reply! Yes I do smell gas occasionally. Sometime this weekend I'll pull the plug and examine it.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » May 31st 2014, 5:39am

One more thing I remembered, if you have a really bad spider leak you can pull the oil dipstick and smell the oil. It would have a strong gas smell. This only works if the oil in you engine is relatively new (500-900 miles of use). Oil that has a couple thousand miles on it always has a bit of gas smell because of the blow by.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby Leeann_93 » May 31st 2014, 5:40am

I'm with Zach. I'm pretty sure you have a leaking injector. The fuel trims should give you a pretty good clue if it is.

And yeah, there is no reason to do all that work and NOT put in the updated injector assembly.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby chevymaher » May 31st 2014, 1:41pm

Leeann_93 wrote:
And yeah, there is no reason to do all that work and NOT put in the updated injector assembly.

X2 best thing for the CPI.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » June 1st 2014, 1:48am

Image

Hopefully this shows up, #4 plug
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 1:56am

is it wet?
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » June 1st 2014, 2:16am

zach914v8 wrote:is it wet?

No, but I pulled it after it was sitting overnight. Should I run it for a bit then take it out?

I'm assuming I have the right plug, according to the service manual #4 is the middle passenger side cylinder, right?
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 2:38am

Did you pull another plug so you would have a point of reference? I don't like the look of the center of the plug, looks like the electrode is missing???? If it is that could be the whole issue.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » June 1st 2014, 2:46am

zach914v8 wrote:Did you pull another plug so you would have a point of reference? I don't like the look of the center of the plug, looks like the electrode is missing???? If it is that could be the whole issue.


I didn't. They are such a pain to get out... Was trying to get the lawnmower blades sharpened then dusk came. I'll get another in the morning.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 2:50am

If that electrode is burned up that's your problem. I'd put a new plug in and drive it.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » June 1st 2014, 4:19am

Image

With the Bosch Platinum Plus, the electrode doesn't stick out from the insulator at all. Closer examination of the plug in question, the electrode is right there at the tip of the insulator. They are 4 years old, maybe 55K on them
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 4:30am

Ok, thats why they looked funny, i assumed they were delcos. Well if it was me, I would definitely get those plugs out of there. Get a set of Delco plugs, those plugs re not very good. They can cause a range of funny engine running issues. The only cars I have had decent results with bosch platinums are volvos.

But just changing that plug probably isn't going to fix your problem then. I would still assume that the spider injector is causing you problem.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby Leeann_93 » June 1st 2014, 4:31am

I'd replace all the plugs with AC Delco 41-993 (iridium) then drive it.

Looks like it might be a bad plug out of the box to me.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 4:37am

X2 on the delco iridium plugs.

btw yes, middle cylinder on passenger side is #4
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby paulbot [OP] » June 1st 2014, 5:06pm

Reference plug -Image

Plug #4Image

Ughh. they don't look so hot....
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 5:47pm

From my experience, I would go ahead and change the plugs first. It may not fix your problem, but it might. Plus it looks like you need plugs anyway.

When I get a leaky spider injector job at my shop, usually the plug is wet. One thing you can do now is with the plug out, cycle the key on and off a few times. See if you smell fuel in #4. If you have an air blower, blow air into the spark plug hole and see if fuel blows out.
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Re: intermit. now constant cylinder 4 misfire

Postby zach914v8 » June 1st 2014, 5:55pm

After you check that if your not getting raw fuel smell for testing purposes, put a new plug in #4 first and go drive it.
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