Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 12th 2014, 7:02am

Hey guys hope you can confirm some issues I am having. The van has been running rough and getting worse over last few months, rich out the tailpipe and very poor fuel economy. Did a pressure test at the Schrader valve and pressure on prime was around 60 PSI but as soon as pump cut out would drop rapidly. I clamped the return line and retested and no change. So I opened the plenum and sure enough the passenger side was clean from the regulator leaking out. I replaced the regulator, and retested pressure and looked for leaks. The pressure now reads little less (around 50-55) and the Fuel Pressure still leaks down, BUT no visible leaks under the plenum.
Repeat the clamp on return line and pressure increased around 65- 70. This time I clamped the supply & return line after priming the system. The pressure held until I released the clamp on the supply line, then dropped fast.
So does this mean that the "leak" is between the tank and the clamps? Since everything on the other side will hold pressure.
Also did the plugs and wires, Cap and rotor had been done within last year.
The van is very rough and took a lot of revving to get it to idle, leaving a big black mess under the tailpipe. I am assuming it is all the loosened carbon and gunk from cleaning the inside of plenum working its way through. Since the more I drove it around the block and pushed it seemed to run better and better. (literally blowing the carbon out of it).
Then started to act up more and set a code 44 "exhaust lean condition, and to possibly replace O2 sensor". But no O2 sensor codes.
Now the dirty rotten gasket tore in the front area while a buddy let the front of plenum slide while placing back on. We used some gasket tack to try to repair it. it looked ok but still I did have my doubts.

Think going to get a new gasket tomorrow, maybe a O2 sensor?
Is it possible that all that gunk out the tailpipe has soiled the o2 sensor? I think so :shrug:
Can a bad check valve in the tank cause the stutter and lean condition?
Looked for any vacuum lines I may have missed, think got them all. (the drivers side pcv vent line that runs to the airbox is rough and may have cracks but the van ran before regulator change.
With the above test I hope it kinda rules out the spider assembly, I need to sell this van and can't afford any more large repairs only to have some putz lowball me out the gate.
Also can Timing cause the lean condition? And can the timing be set on my 95'? Manual say no but cant see why not? Dizzy can rotate and clamp down still, and is the round style cap. IF so then Where is that stupid tan/black wire?
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby chevymaher » October 12th 2014, 9:55am

Yes the gunk in the tailpipe could be fouling the O2 sensor. Run it hard a while drive it on the freeway to clean it up some.

The fuel pump check valve. Pressure loss when testing will not cause the running bad. It has pressure when it is running. Buddies S-10 also a 95 been like that for 4 years and it runs great.

Yes the timing can be adjusted on a 95. Just let it run and move the distributor and it will idle faster and run smoother. Because there is a computer fighting you here drive it make sure the computer isn't revolting. Trail and error to find out what the engine likes the best. Set it run a couple days the computer will resist. Reset and go a couple more. Just do that and you will get a improvement in performance and mileage.

The PCV being old and cracked looking you mentioned it ran fine before the regulator change. But you disturbed the hose and may have opened a crack and caused a vacuum leak. Also just check the PCV, they suck oil when stuck open and that will cause the mess in the tailpipe also.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 12th 2014, 2:51pm

Great thanks Chevy!! I figured the pump check valve wasn't causing the rough idle/running. If anything just harder to start "long crank time"
Given the testing that I did after the regulator can that rule out anything from the plenum/ spider assembly?
Going to do the fuel filter as well since not sure last time I did it.
Would a seafoam or other treatment help get that crap out? I am worried that The "DUNK" degreaser may have damaged a sensor on the plenum while cleaning the tunnels, But not getting any other codes.
What is strange and makes the "run it hard to get crap out" more likely in my head. Is I reset the codes, took it out and managed to get it up around 80km/h running farely well (after few hard stutters) didn't set any codes. park for 10-20 min and took for another ride and set code 44 again/ran like crap again.
Was supposed to get on fishing trip this weekend/week so if I get it running well I will have lots of time to blow crap out on the highway.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby RECox286 » October 12th 2014, 5:44pm

NOTE: I had a problem with low fuel pressure at the rail, and it turned out to be a crack in the short connector hose

between the fuel pump and the module pipe that it attaches to. Ethanol eating the rubber is what I attributed it to.

(???) PIA, but you might want to check-it-out as a possibility. The engine still ran, but was sluggish in GO-FASTER mode.

Good hunting

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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby chevymaher » October 12th 2014, 7:32pm

I like lucas fuel injector cleaner. It fixes most clogging issues in the system. Run 6 ounces ofTC-W2 2 stroke oil in a tank of gas if you have ethanol blended gas. It breaks up the green lake water effect that stuff causes.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 13th 2014, 4:34am

Ok so this mornig tied to fire it up and didn't want to idle, so revved the crap out abit till it understood who was Boss got it running ok after a few rough patches using the 4-ways on higher speed roads.
Stopped at the parts store got some seafoam pored half can in tank @ 3/4 full, sputtered all way home. And set the code 44 again.
About a hour later reset codes I took out to get the gasket and O2 sensor. Ran great up to 110 km/h and only few rough idle issues.
Coming home same thing sputter and limped home. And set the code 44 again
Started the gasket replacement since it is cheapest repair and I know it was torn. I have the plenum removal down to less than 20 min. :thumbup: :thumbup:
What I see? The passenger side of plenum is starting to get darker and little carbon no more shiny gas cleansed. So no more leaks.
Decided to check the seating of regulator because the o'ring was tight going in. The plastic fantastic post that the regulator hold down screws into. Bottom post broke off.... AW #$*$!! :screaming:
ALSO the one of the poppets retainer clip had a broken clip. Decided to pull spider and cracked one more poppet.
So I will need to get to scrap yard because any more than $100 bucks is to much at this point :violin:
Would a spider from anything like the S10, Sonoma, astro/safari, trucks with 4.3L 1992-1995 be the same? Would use
I thought I seen a kit for poppet replacement But can't find it now. :shrug: Might try to weld the post back on.
No leaks though so who knows?
Not sure Was the problem but now is a problem.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby redfury » October 13th 2014, 6:00am

Spider is the same across all the 4.3's of the same vintage.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby redfury » October 13th 2014, 6:02am

CHEVROLET ASTRO (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET BLAZER (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 (1996 - 2002)
CHEVROLET EXPRESS 2500 (1996 - 2002)
CHEVROLET K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
CHEVROLET P30 (1996 - 1999)
CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 (1999 - 2002)
GMC C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
GMC JIMMY (1996 - 2001)
GMC K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
GMC P3500 (1996 - 1999)
GMC SAFARI (1996 - 2001)
GMC SAVANA 1500 (1996 - 2002)
GMC SAVANA 2500 (1996 - 2002)
GMC SIERRA 1500 (1999 - 2002)
GMC SONOMA (1996 - 2001)
ISUZU HOMBRE (1997 - 1999)
OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA (1996 - 2001)


Compatibility list.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 13th 2014, 2:50pm

redfury wrote:
CHEVROLET ASTRO (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET BLAZER (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
CHEVROLET EXPRESS 1500 (1996 - 2002)
CHEVROLET EXPRESS 2500 (1996 - 2002)
CHEVROLET K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
CHEVROLET P30 (1996 - 1999)
CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1996 - 2001)
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 1500 (1999 - 2002)
GMC C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
GMC JIMMY (1996 - 2001)
GMC K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1998)
GMC P3500 (1996 - 1999)
GMC SAFARI (1996 - 2001)
GMC SAVANA 1500 (1996 - 2002)
GMC SAVANA 2500 (1996 - 2002)
GMC SIERRA 1500 (1999 - 2002)
GMC SONOMA (1996 - 2001)
ISUZU HOMBRE (1997 - 1999)
OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA (1996 - 2001)


Compatibility list.
Thanks Redfury, But this is a 1995 and found this is the stupid year of this van. Has the HEI Dizzy, and same injection of the earlier 4.3L (with the round regulator). The 1996 + is different (more rectangle shape) injection. But good to know once I find one that looks same it will fit, and not astro specific.
Makes for finding parts on this van slightly more challenging!

Is there a way to test the spider if I get one from wrecker?
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby chevymaher » October 13th 2014, 9:06pm

4barrel wrote:Thanks Redfury, But this is a 1995 and found this is the stupid year of this van. Has the HEI Dizzy, and same injection of the earlier 4.3L (with the round regulator). The 1996 + is different (more rectangle shape) injection. But good to know once I find one that looks same it will fit, and not astro specific.
Makes for finding parts on this van slightly more challenging!

Is there a way to test the spider if I get one from wrecker?


They are not hard to find parts for. You just got to know which years to get them from.

Transmission has a different valve body, but it is a 94 otherwise. Computer is the same one as a 94 with different programming, wiring to trans is the only difference. These parts are the only problem child. No junkyard parts except 95. Just rebuild the trans there plenty of parts for it new.

Engine and interior is a 94.
96 and up doghouse parts. Doghouse in this case being fenders and hood and grill parts.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 14th 2014, 8:33pm

So I thought I had it!!!!
4barrel wrote:Started the gasket replacement since it is cheapest repair and I know it was torn. I have the plenum removal down to less than 20 min. :thumbup: :thumbup:
What I see? The passenger side of plenum is starting to get darker and little carbon no more shiny gas cleansed. So no more leaks.
Decided to check the seating of regulator because the o'ring was tight going in. The plastic fantastic post that the regulator hold down screws into. Bottom post broke off.... AW #$*$!! :screaming:
ALSO the one of the poppets retainer clip had a broken clip. Decided to pull spider and cracked one more poppet.
So I will need to get to scrap yard because any more than $100 bucks is to much at this point :violin:
Would a spider from anything like the S10, Sonoma, astro/safari, trucks with 4.3L 1992-1995 be the same? Would use
I thought I seen a kit for poppet replacement But can't find it now. :shrug: Might try to weld the post back on.
No leaks though so who knows?
Not sure Was the problem but now is a problem.
|

I plastic welded and soldering iron stitched up the cracked post. and reinstalled the regulator. This time I am positive that it seated proper and tightened the hold down and the repair seems to be strong. (rapped the post few times with a screwdriver handle) reinstalled the spider and managed to snap 2 more poppet clips. Just one side on 2 other (total 4 now) the poppets do still snap in place, and tugging on the hoses it seems to be secure and need to struggle to get it out again...
reinstalled everything and changed the fuel filter.
Retest of pressure showed a small improvement in the fact that the pressure dropped slower BUT Still rapidly, hung around 10 then dropped off.
Started ok and was little lumpy jerky fro few blocks and managed a few smooth runs to 50-60km/h and it was running great!! Little miss or stumble at idle but better. Seemed warmer it got the better it ran!!
This morning however... Did not like the cold and had to rev snot out of it to stay running, set the 44 code again "exhaust Lean condition". Took for ride and got little better, but still terrible, stopped for about 15-20 min at the store and started ok & ran great all way home! Hit 120 km/h for a second.
So I figure the spider is in need of replacement and no wreckers have on available right away. Well one guy has a 1992 that wasn't running, wouldn't give me price on phone.
And a guy I NEVER deal with but know he has one or can get. Get this he said has a few places he can order from and listed prices... $368, $265, $190, $240, $225 ! :rofl: Asked if that was NEW OR REMAN. Or Recycled? He said recycled. I nearly **** myself. He says new would be about $800. I told hin a Reman available in town is $220 + $50 core. He got all pissy said he can order one from them as well but never checked would check and hung up on me!!
got reman ordered and a new denso O2 sensor for half price of other one I haven't opened yet. Returnable!! :cheers:
Not convinced the spider is the issue, but the damaged poppet clips and the repaired post, are talking to me.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 14th 2014, 10:29pm

Here's a good question?
On the new spider the hoses are not marked as to what cyl they go to.
With this engine does it matter? general visual of the design is that they all squirt gas at same time?
Hope to get a quick response on this one since I am installing as I type... (keyboard is filthy)
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 97cargocrawler » October 14th 2014, 10:53pm

I dunno about the '95 but my '97 has a specific order. I would follow the placement of the one your replacing (and make sure that one was correct to begin with). The instruction that came with my spider were very clear as to what injector went where and EXACTLY how to route the wires to avoid being pinched. The spider did not come with any instructions? My spider wasn't labeled, I had to label it before install according to the diagram.

Someone smarter will chime in soon...

I see your having troubles with pressure. I recently replaced the spider and the fuel pump in my van. I now have a permanently installed fuel pressure gauge. I can tell you that in my setup the pressure seems to hold or not hold depending on the direction of the wind. No predictability whatsoever. Sometimes it leaks down from 60psi to 0 within an hour, sometimes it holds for 24hrs without losing any pressure. I don't know what the deal is but I'm not concerned because I don't have any fuel leaks and there is 50-60psi running.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 14th 2014, 11:00pm

97cargocrawler wrote:I dunno about the '95 but my '97 has a specific order. I would follow the placement of the one your replacing (and make sure that one was correct to begin with). The instruction that came with my spider were very clear as to what injector went where and EXACTLY how to route the wires to avoid being pinched. The spider did not come with any instructions? My spider wasn't labeled, I had to label it before install according to the diagram.

Someone smarter will chime in soon...

(and make sure that one was correct to begin with)
That's the part I was hoping the new (reman) part would say if it mattered.
I think the 96+ had Multiport injection? That I could see making a difference.
Seems to me "CPI'' is just that though ONE single "central" injector feeding ALL cyl. Only thing hooked to mine is 2 wires and 2 fuel lines (one feed, one return) Don't see how it could know which hose should fire & when.
Can someone confirm?
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 14th 2014, 11:05pm

Yes still issues with leak down. My leakdown is counted in seconds and in low numbers at that! But not to concerned, pretty sure its in the tank check valve, so as long as can start in winter I could care less. Plan is to sell anyway.
Needs to run ok even if saftied.
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Extra Info: 4.3L V6 AWD

Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby Leeann_93 » October 19th 2014, 2:00am

CPI doesn't care where the poppets go, only that they're hooked in well and not pinched. Yes, all poppets fire at the same time.

I'm still not convinced your problem is under the plenum. Did you replace the nut kit (nylon fuel pressure and return lines) when you replaced the spider? After you replaced it, did you pull the EGR valve, clean it and the port that feeds it and reinstall with a screened gasket? Oh, and since I'm lazy and don't feel like going back over all the posts, did you replace the lower intake manifold gaskets while you had the plenum off or just the upper? Was the little foam insert still present in the fuel injector connector?

I think the leakdown has more to do with the fuel pump, personally. It's either the check valve in the pump or the little piece of hose that connects the pump to the hanger assembly.

Pics of doing this on my '93 Bravada 4.3L CPI are here:
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=6568&start=40

And show the rubber insert, among other things. Easier on the Bravada except for the nut kit bracket on the back of the plenum...that was a blind PITA.
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Re: Fuel Pressure leaks down after replacing the regulator

Postby 4barrel [OP] » October 20th 2014, 12:59am

Sorry haven't got back on here in awhile.. I managed to get it fixed. I just got back from the fishing trip!!! :banana:
I replaced the O2 sensor with no difference in idle and drivability, didn't try to set the 44 code since it was obvious the van still ran like crap.
So I installed the reman CPI. and even thought the 2nd plenum gasket was in ok shape installed a new one and torqued the plenum down in 2 passes clockwise from front passenger side. First pass 54 in-lbs. 2nd pass was 124 in-lbs.
Started ok little longer crank time than normal, Idled great and when I hit gas it revved strong and then cut out as if someone cut the ignition.
7;30 at night I am cranking and cranking not a fart out of it.... hook timing light to each wire and it sparks but I think kinda weird on one or two.
Pulled cap and the center nub had broken off sitting in the rotor. Ran to the parts place open and scored a new cap and rotor, installed and still nothing :banghead: :banghead:
After few minutes cursing it out. I shot some throttle body cleaner down intake tube, This time she had a few farts and coughs. So I added more and more until I got it fired up, had to rev alittle but after a min I let it Idle nice and the revs seemed strong and responsive. Took for a drive to pick up the wife. Ran like a new van!!! I told her that IF it fires no problem in the morning I will be packing and heading out.
Next morning was perfect trial little cool and sure enough fired no prob and quick. :rockon:
pulled a old tent trailer turned into a utility trailer, for 100km each way, at one point was doing 120km/h
Still has a minor stutter at a light some times but it also has 286K on it. I think my mileage has improved greatly as well.
I am a HAPPY CAMPER
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