94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby astroturf » September 29th 2010, 2:11am

You are soooooo lucky Keith.

Lucky that you weren't arrested... For being under the influence...

Of Burger JOINTS

LOLz, Jim
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » September 29th 2010, 2:15am

Yes Jim, I seem to skate a lot on that lately.

JOINT, it's been a long time... maybe I could go to Amsterdam for a visit. I hear the people are nice and the flowers are pretty.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby jeff's93astro » September 29th 2010, 2:37am

Congrats :clap:
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » September 29th 2010, 4:12am

Thanks Jeff,

Just got back from fueling it up. 13.89 and now for a test of the fix.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby chevy57bert » September 29th 2010, 6:01am

94 Van Guy wrote:Yes Jim, I seem to skate a lot on that lately.

JOINT, it's been a long time... maybe I could go to Amsterdam for a visit. I hear the people are nice and the flowers are pretty.


When will you arrive Keith? I will show you around. :dance:
We could visit the `Wallen`and buy some grass :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby cwclements » September 30th 2010, 2:40am

Check the coil. I had the same symptoms. Replaced the coil, problem solved.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » September 30th 2010, 4:03am

cwclements wrote:Check the coil. I had the same symptoms. Replaced the coil, problem solved.

The coil is one part I haven't replaced yet. I have had it to two shops, one was to give it a tune up and find a vacuum leak. The other shop, Dealer, was to find the vacuum leak and deal with the surging. This last trip was the third and they changed the timing +8*. The van does have more power, but it still does surge, just not as much. Under the right conditions, I was able to feel the surging still. I was told by the Shop Foreman not to chase the problem, as it doesn't exist.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby astroturf » September 30th 2010, 4:17am

Aw Keith,

I am sorry to hear that it is still there.

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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby Phantom » September 30th 2010, 4:22am

94 Van Guy wrote:
cwclements wrote:Check the coil. I had the same symptoms. Replaced the coil, problem solved.

,, Dealer, was to find the vacuum leak and deal with the surging. This last trip was the third and they changed the timing +8*. The van does have more power, but it still does surge, just not as much. Under the right conditions, I was able to feel the surging still. I was told by the Shop Foreman not to chase the problem, as it doesn't exist.

Wow 8* off that is a lot ,considering most timing tab scales only go to 20* if that , Shop Foreman syas it doesn't exist cause they need to say that the problem is solved,, but you can still feel it, But you can feel that it is better than it has been which is a big plus. Coils do get weak and can cause that problem. i just read a post where a guy changed his coil and problem solved , he put MSD Streetfire coil on , don't recall if it is the poster above , your MPG probably is a little better now ?
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » September 30th 2010, 4:31am

Phantom wrote:Wow 8* off that is a lot ,considering most timing tab scales only go to 20* if that , Shop Foreman syas it doesn't exist cause they need to say that the problem is solved,, but you can still feel it, But you can feel that it is better than it has been which is a big plus. Coils do get weak and can cause that problem. i just read a post where a guy changed his coil and problem solved , he put MSD Streetfire coil on , don't recall if it is the poster above , your MPG probably is a little better now ?

He did need to say something. When I did the test drive, the traffic was heavy and I couldn't really drive it the way I needed to. Also with the timing where it needed to be, It had so much more pep that I didn't really look like close, I should have.

Thanks for your thoughts Phantom, I will keep at it or not...?

One good thing, no vacuum leaks... maybe~~~
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » October 1st 2010, 12:05am

chevy57bert wrote:
When will you arrive Keith? I will show you around. :dance:
We could visit the `Wallen`and buy some grass :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks Bert,

after I get this figured out, I may need to come and "visit?" or something. :lol:
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby astroturf » October 1st 2010, 12:34am

Keith,
When/If you take it back to the Dealer the Master Tech is not going to be on your side.
May I suggest that you request that the Dealership Owner and Master Tech take a ride with you, While you duplicate the problem for them.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » October 1st 2010, 12:58am

Good thought Jim,

Seems I have no problem getting the Shop Foreman to go for a ride, but the "Master "Tech is too busy. I don't think I will be going back, rather just living with it until it breaks. I would think a coil may be the problem, except when I turn off the van for just 45 seconds the surging stops for 30 seconds. The coil hasn't had time to cool off. Oh well, things could be worse... now for my next trick, I will pull a
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » October 1st 2010, 12:59am

and if that doesn't help nothing will.

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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby astroturf » October 1st 2010, 1:04am

Keith,
I have found that if you take your shoe off and start beating on the counter...
Well, your mileage may vary. I just wish I were closer.
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » October 1st 2010, 1:37am

Lynn just has the best fix of all. She has figured it out. The fix is much easier than we all figured. First drive the van into a place where there is some shade and pop the hood. Then being on the safe side, slowly remove the radiator cap, then move the van to right just enough so another newer van with lower miles will fit under the radiator cap, then replace the cap on the newer van. Problem fixed!

And all along I thought it would be hard to find and fix. :rofl: :rofl:

I do like the way she thinks! :rockon: :rockon:

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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby astroturf » October 1st 2010, 1:54am

Dang...

Those scientist types sure are smart.

Ya got a keeper there Keith.

Until she wants to take you under that same tree...

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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » October 12th 2010, 2:40pm

One more question,

I have described this problem "like the timing is being advanced then retarded." Question, could a warn distributor gear be causing this? It's an easy check, remove the cap and twist on the rotor and check for play. But how much play would I look for?

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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby Phantom » October 12th 2010, 3:08pm

Not much at all , i believe 1/16 in is accepted , 1/8in too much but some may accept it , think of like a timing chain that has stretched , the stretch is so slight , but yet causes so much difference in timing that it causes a real problem

Something to consider is , if you plan to pay a tech to fix this , for the same money you can buy a new distributor , even high performance one , and just swap distributors in far less time as it simply pulls out and drops in then set static timing with a light , and your lady seems to be skilled enough to do that, saving you all the labor charges, If you want only to change the gear the cost for th egear is about $40.

GM Part 19052845
Genuine GM GEAR

http://www.gmpartsgiant.com/components/ ... 11006.html
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Re: 94 GMC surges when it starts in 1st and 2nd

Postby 94 Van Guy [OP] » February 28th 2011, 4:18pm

When I took the van in for the IM testing, the hydrocarbons were too high and he needed to tweak the timing again. Last year he had to retard the timing and the Dealer had it set back to 0*. When I asked what and if a vacuum leak would cause the condition, he thought a bad converter would be why the hydrocarbon reading was so high. OK for that, maybe new cats, are needed.

Now for the question as it relates to the surging problem. When the tech set the timing back, retarded, I have noticed the surging is more pronounced. Could the bad converters be causing the surging I have been experiencing? Could a sensor pick up some kind of condition related to the bad converter, causing a condition that would cause the engine to slow then speed up again. Remember this only happens after it goes into closed loop.
'91 Chevy G30 Bus 39.3K Miles


Retired
Safari
87 Safari, 91 Astro
86 Astro, 85 Astro
88 Astro, 92 Astro
89 Astro, 88 Astro

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94 Van Guy
250k+ Miles
250k+ Miles
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: 94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years94 Van Guy has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 2538
Topics: 71
Images: 44
Joined: February 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Keith
Van Model Year: 1991
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: G30 Bus

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