rough brakes on 95 awd

rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 12:52am

Hi there

I am about to tear down my brakes for the 2nd time in 2 years for rough braking at higher speeds (although it is getting bad at even lower speeds)

Last time, I changes rotors and drums , pads and shoes (munroes) and chcked for stickin calipers and replaced on leaky wheel cylinder. I think I might be missing something for them to get SO bad SO fast. It is not like I am hard on brakes in general.

Ideas???
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby paintdrying » May 30th 2012, 1:11am

Could you describe rough braking? Not a bad idea to replace the rubber lines.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 1:45am

Oh yeah..
A vibration or pulsing you feel in the vehicle when the brake is applied. Usually the rotors (or drums) are warped and cause this. (or at least I think so..) I recall a time when you just got the rotors and drums recut but it seemed for what they charge for cutting versus new, it didn`t seem practical. The last time I did this , it SORTA made the problem go away but not great. I double checked that the mating surfaces for the rotors and drums were clean and even.
I noticed in a few post here about brake hoses. I`m not clear on why that would cause this problem. I will check the hoses non the less. I did check the front end for play. Didn`t see anything but maybe not checking close enough. I don`t hear any tell tale clunk like I heard before when a joint was loose.

Thanks for responding Paint
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby 88astroLT » May 30th 2012, 2:08am

I think you should replace the hoses even if they appear to be OK. I also suggest bleeding your brakes, making sure to flush all the old fluid with new DOT 3 brake fluid. If you don't know how to bleed your brakes, simply search it up on youtube.

Good luck!
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby chevymaher » May 30th 2012, 2:28am

Riding the brakes gently for long periods cause both a glaze to form and excessive heating of rotors causing them to warp. Blue areas form on the rotor from heat.

This is what causes the pedal pulsation and jerking braking.

To remove glaze. From 65 stand on the brakes pretty good to a stop.Such as at the end of a freeway ramp. This cuts it off and cleans the pads. Once a week or so is good maintenance.

Avoid riding with your foot resting on the brake pedal as this builds heat.
Avoid gently braking long distances, Instead harder braking for short distances. It is the time the pad is in contact with the rotor/drum which builds heat. Continuous gentle braking is harder on them, than firm braking for shorter distances.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby paintdrying » May 30th 2012, 2:41am

A good friend of mine said that all rotors are the same. I try and get a good set of pads if I can find them. i would take a closer look at your braking habits, also, be careful loaning out the van.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 2:54am

Thanks there guys.

I had to bleed the brakes when the wheel cylinder was off (a brake line also cracked just prior to this) so the fluid is pretty clean and new. All the advice given here is pretty good (although I am leery of stomping on the brakes ANYWHERE here in T.O. without being rearended!!) I have done the brakes on several of my own vehicles (My S-15, my G-20 van, my Cavalier) and they all stayed pretty good .At least 4 yrs without any problems.I really don`t think it is driver style that is the problem. I never lend my vehicles anymore ...a lesson well learned...
I have heard others complain about their brakes on the Astro /Safari so I was thinking there is something more discrete going on. Not a bad idea to change the hoses based on the age. Again, not sure what would cause this from hoses....swelling and contracting??
Would braided do the job much better?
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Leeann_93 » May 30th 2012, 3:10am

The hoses fail internally. I believe it's the water that gets in the fluid, but don't quote me on that.

When I replaced the hoses on my '93 Bravada, little rubber marbles poured out of them. It was unbelievable...
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 3:13am

Leeann_93 wrote:The hoses fail internally. I believe it's the water that gets in the fluid, but don't quote me on that.

When I replaced the hoses on my '93 Bravada, little rubber marbles poured out of them. It was unbelievable...


I've heard that as well
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Phantom » May 30th 2012, 3:15am

Hoses do fail internally , they can collapse and prevent a good flow of fluid , you can't tell by looking at them they have layers
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 3:32am

Well, this is definitely the kind of info I`m looking for...not what I would expect to look for. From what I understand, brakefluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water so it causes all kinds of problems if the fluid is never changed. So did others have the same problem with vibration as I do , caused by bad hoses? Seems to me that this would cause bad or no brakes at all if they are clogged. I have had pretty cracked up lines in the past but I don`t recall it giving me this problem. Now I`m really curious so I will be replacing the rubber lines. Are we thinking just the lines running to the calipers or the one on the diff as well?

Thanks again for your advice.
oh yeah, I also replaced the front sway bar mounts which I thought was a problem the last time when I found one was broken.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 3:42am

It does absorbs water, and there inlies the problem. I believe DOT4 is better then DOT 3, but there both glycol based. DOT 5 is silicone based and doesn't have this problem, but cost's 3-4 times as much.

Also note: do not mix DOT3-4 with DOT 5
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 3:56am

I thought you can`t use DOT 5 for anti lock brakes? (which I have)
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 4:11am

That I don't know.

Here's what I've read. You CAN NOT use DOT 5 with ABS, but it appears you can mix DOT 5.1 with 3 and 4 because it is also glycol based and has a wet boiling point of 190° where as 3 is 140° and 4 is 155° The problem with DOT 5 is it's high viscosity will not flow through the ABS systems fluid bores.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 4:20am

Hey Jasen
I found this link
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generali ... ef_058.htm
If you can believe everything you read on the www, looks like anti lock and silcone don`t mix..
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 4:28am

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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 4:36am

Thanks for that link Jasen. I don`t think I have ever seen DOT 5.1 before.

I am still not completely comfortable with the idea that the hoses are causing my problems even if they are bad. I guess i will see when I tear it down and put it back together.
Anyone else with other thoughts on what could be the culprit...and no I`m not changing the pinstriping....
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 4:41am

No problem, I learned a thing or two myself :)

From what I read, the problem with DOT 5 for consumer use is, although it doesn't absorb moisture, moisture can still get in the system and localize and then reduce breaking efficiency.
Also once you open a jug of 3,4,5.1 you should use it with in a year because it will absorb moisture sitting on the shelf. Hmmm, I've always had a big jug on hand, sometimes for 3-4 years before I get another big jug :think:

Adopting some new brake maintenance protocols.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby decypher [OP] » May 30th 2012, 5:34am

I would think just leaving it open would be the problem. If it was closed tightly soon after using I would think it would be OK for a bit. Imagine what the stuff in your brake system is going through on a daily occurrence.
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Re: rough brakes on 95 awd

Postby Jasen » May 30th 2012, 5:37am

Yea, Well it's do for front pads this summer, so I think I'll replace all the rubber and flush it while I'm at it.
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