Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 17th 2011, 8:13am

This will still slam into second hard enough to make your neck snap. At this point I am open for suggestions. I read somewhere that if I pull the 3-4 solenoid and stretch the spring in there it will help a bunch, seems strange because the hardest shift is the 1-2 shift, any comments? I also have read about a kit that installs a sleeve. I dont know what the kit is called or where it can be bought or the cost. I am also unsure of what exactly it does. I dont know where it installs but I have run across several mentions of it and was wondering if anyone here knows anything about it?
Basically since the new electric module did nothing to help ease up the 1-2 shipt what else is there that i can look into?

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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby Leeann_93 » March 18th 2011, 1:15am

It isn't a solenoid problem, it's a valve body/check valve problem:

http://transgo.com/A1_4L60E-4L65E.html
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby redfury » March 18th 2011, 1:41am

Does it only shift harshly into 2nd gear, 3rd and 4th are normal?

The 1-2 solenoid isn't the only player involved in shifting gears. Chances are good that you have a sticking ball in your valve body though.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 18th 2011, 3:42am

Thanks. Since I wont be able to pull the tranny I guess I will just have to let it beat me up until it finally just craps out then go with another tranny. Im not sure about the transgo kit because I know I cant tear down the tranny. If it is possible to just drop the pan and and replace this or that without a major project I would probably try but I dont know about removing the valve body and Im guessing that the cost of a valve body would pretty much be as much as a good used tranny or one of the elcheapo rebuilt trannys. neither an optimum solution but I just cant afford any type of major rebuild/replacement on a small fixed income.
Thanks for the input. i appreciate it.


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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby redfury » March 18th 2011, 4:55am

You can remove the valve body without removing the transmission. Matter of fact, the only thing you can't do to the transmission through the pan is deal with the bands, clutch packs, etc...the hard parts...

All of the hydraulic stuff though is right there, ready to be unbolted. All the transgo kit is, is a different set of plates with holes drilled out in certain spots for stiffening up shift points.

We can pinpoint this and figure out what you need to tackle, but a little more information is needed. Tell us exactly how the transmission is shifting, from Park to Drive, back to reverse and park .
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 18th 2011, 7:20am

Well the shift from park to drive is a little harder than most other vehicles but nothing really harsh. The shift into drive would be like shifting at about 900 rpm when the idle is about 700 rpm. The shift from first to second will leave tire marks on the pavement and damn near give you whiplash. The more gas the larger the tire burn. I try to keep it at a chirp but even then it is really harsh and slams into second. The shift to third is noticeable about the same as the shift from park to drive. The shift to forth is about the same as the shift to third, overdrive is barely detectable. You can tell it shifted but you have to be looking for it. I would really love the van if all the shift were like the one to overdrive.
Ive checked the ujoints and there is no lash in the drive shaft/rear end so I ruled out and hard shift because of play in the driveline. The tranny does have the ever so slight rear seal leak, maybe a drop every several days other than that it is entirely dry over the entire exterior. The slam into second really takes the joy out of driving the van. Any suggestions, ideas would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby 'cudapaul » March 19th 2011, 1:53am

Just for the heck of it, try disconnecting your battery overnight.

This will reset the ECM (driveability may change as the ECM relearns) but the idea is too see if the computer is commanding the transmission line pressure high. This is caused when the computer detects slipping in the trans (OD or upper gears) and it controls a PWM solenoid in the trans to make the line pressure go high to protect the trans.

If the hard shift persists, I guess it may be internal in the trans. If it goes away, then you probably still have a problem in the trans that is being caused by slippage, but it may stop until the ECM detects internal slipping.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 19th 2011, 2:14am

Thanks, its worth a try. I will disconnect the battery now and let it sit overnight. Cant hurt.

Thanks again
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 19th 2011, 3:48pm

Disconnected the battery last night. Hooked it back up this morning went around the block and everything is still the same. Was worth a try though. Thanks for the thought.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby Zebediah III » March 23rd 2011, 12:05am

What diagnostic criteria led to condemning the solenoid and not looking further?
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 23rd 2011, 12:34am

There were no diagnostic schemes offered and from what I read up on it seemed that one of the hard shift problems was the solenoid so that was the reason for replacing it. I couldnt even find anything about testing them. Now in hindsight I suppose I could have just switched the 1-2 solenoid with the 3-4 one and checked if there was any difference but at the time I really didnt know they were both the same solenoid.
I still am not sure of what I can test to eliminate different parts. Im guessing that since I got the van with this problem the PO knew what the problem was, maybe from a tranny shop, but selectively forgot to mention it. He did mention that the trans was rebuilt but I can pretty much be sure that was more of a "tale" than fact. The result is I am stuck with trying to remedy it. i have decided to keep the van so a fix is in order. I cant afford to take it to a shop so I will have to keep hunting for a solution.
Little by little and all that.


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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby Zebediah III » March 23rd 2011, 2:25am

OK.
It's not in front of me, but;

You're on a budget.

Here's the best I can do. It will be cheap, and I appreciate and emphasize
with the situation you are in.

If you get some a day or maybe two ( I know about the health stuff, you may go slow )
it would be a good idea to take the valve body apart and lay everything out as you
disassemble it on a really clean piece of poster board. Carb cleaner gets all of the
black sticky stuff out best. All of the valves can be removed
and checked for burrs or debris and arranged on the board exactly as they need to go
back together. Take pics if you want. A manual would help you too, an ATSG manual or
a GM book. Getting the valve body completely clean and cleaning out your thimble filters
could help you. If not, you're only out some time. The check balls and spacer plate are
critical too. A tiny flake of aluminum or rubber seal could be hanging a valve up. A
scratch on a spool valve will do this too. A valve body looks difficult, but if you've ever
successfully gone through a carburetor, you can do a valve body.

I have one here that's an employee's car, he took it apart Saturday. He's been through
the re-flash, dealership etc. It's a recent rebuild on a Dodge 1-ton and he found a splinter
of wood about a 3rd the size of a grain of rice. It was causing him havoc, and I really
think it came from a work bench or hammer handle. I see aluminum do this often, it
usually comes from the torque converter. A piece of rubber or rag will do it too. I would
really recommend a manual or something with the illustrations for you though.

You can do it.
Slow. Clean. Thorough.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby redfury » March 23rd 2011, 3:22am

I'm sure someone can provide a valve body schematic here...if not, I could attempt to scan pages out of my service manual as it breaks the whole tranny down.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby 'cudapaul » March 23rd 2011, 4:33am

Sounds like you like a good challenge!

What I would suggest is that you find a copy of an ATSG for a 4L60E trans (ebay, library, possibly a member here) and study it. It covers complete disassembly of the trans, all of the parts, how they go together, some troubleshooting, and some tips. I reliaze that you are not looking to do a rebuild, but I strongly suggest this as an educational guide to give you knowledge.

http://www.atsg.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E-4L60-E-4L65E-ATSG-UPDATE-SERVICE-REBUILD-MANUAL-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588d37ec2aQQitemZ380326374442QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4L60E-4L60-E-ATSG-SERVICE-REBUILD-OVERHAUL-MANUAL-BOOK-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b9798539QQitemZ170615473465QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature



Also, a GM factory (HELM , NOT Haines) service manual is indispensible for working on these vans. It simply has everything, and I'll bet you don't put it down for days. It also has excellent details on the automatic transmission, trouble shooting, and assembly details. New, they are about $100-125, but ebay or Amazon may have them for as little as $25. Keep in mind that there are usually 2-4 volumes in a set, and the first two (Vol. 1 & 2) cover most of the vehicle.

http://www.helminc.com/helm/search_service_owner.asp?Style=helm&class%5F2=CHV

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-Chevy-Astro-Van-Service-Repair-Shop-Manual-Set-OEM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d2dbd994bQQitemZ400199358795QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-GM-M-L-CHEVY-ASTRO-VAN-GMC-SAFARI-Service-Manuals-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588c84f5f8QQitemZ380314646008QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature

There, the ball's in your court!
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby throrope » March 23rd 2011, 4:36am

a2l1

As noted in a prior post, I bought a driveability manual for our '94 that came with a service manual I already have. The service manual has the 4L60-E transmission diagnosis, service, codes, etc.

Since it appears your set on keeping yours on the road with you behind the wheel, drop me your address and I'll send you my spare.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » March 23rd 2011, 5:47am

Thank you brother, I really appreciate the extra manual. I was thinking about it and decided that I would really like to tear apart the body and look it over and clean it but without a step by step I dont think I could do it. With a manual I am pretty sure I can get through it. It may take some time but time I have, the funds are the problem.
The RA has really limited what I can do well the RA and this Lupis garbage,and pulling the trans is really not on my able to do list. The things I can still do just take much longer thats all. I learned by myself to repair laptops and specialized in macs did a decent business repairing and selling on ebay but it got to the point of all the small parts that I couldnt control on a daily basis I wasnt able to keep up with the demand. I still fix the occasional laptop but it does take longer and I no longer do ebay. I mentioned that because I figure with the manual I can do a valve body with time and pictures.
If it works out well I may be able to help someone else that doesnt have the time to do theirs. Thats what is really great about this particular group of people. Lots of help and no egos a very friendly pay it forward sort of crowd. I really enjoy spending time here.
I will PM with all the info.
I will take photos every step of the way and maybe we can make it a sticky to help anyone else wanting to try it on their own. I am sure I will have questions along the way. I just thought of one now. Can I use brake cleaner to clean the parts? Do they then have to be lubed with trans fluid before assembly?
It would be nice to properly address you for your kind offer but all I can do now is say Thank you Throrope

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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » April 15th 2011, 6:02am

UPDATE:::::
Now that I am feeling a little better I am back working on the astro. I decided to go with the clear the errors recommendation so the only error I had was the knock sensor. Today I got the van up on ramps, disconnected the battery and proceeded to drop the tranny pan. I wanted to replace the filter just to be safe, Here is a secret for anyone that hasnt done this yet. That is not an O ring that is holding the filter in and it wont just come out with a little tickle from your finger. It is more like a seat seal that you find on the brake assemblies. I had to pry it out with a courved awl and a hammer and to get the new one in I had to "set" it with a socket the same size as the flair. Just mentioned this so when you do it you will allow a little time. --- Anyway got the new filter in, cleaned the pan and buttoned up the trans. Added two quarts of new dextron and thats ,that. To solve the knock sensor I had to remove the motor cover and then remove the temp sending unit -- antifreeze coming out and running down the driveway. Well ok so moving on I now have access to the knock sensor ---- There are TWO types and you dont know what one you have until you remove it. Large(about the size of a middle finger or small about the size of the pinkie. Doesnt matter what one you get you will need the other one so to save some "custom language" and veins popping on your forehead just get both and then you can return whatever one you didnt use.
The gorilla that installed the knock sensor on mine previously apparently never heard of thread copper or any other name you want to call it, antiseize,etc because he put the sensor in dry and it was almost galded to the block. Finally got it out and more antifreeze going down the driveway.
But now I have a new knock sensor in and changed the tranny fluid and filter. Battery has been disconnected for 5-6 hours now so the puter should be reset. Added new antifreeze and a little bars leak for lube. Fired up the puppy and no clunk into gear. Good so far. Backed out the drive and dropped it in first. Now it did shift with a little positive shift to second but nothing that would rip your head off or push you out of the seat just a little harder than what I have been used to in other vehicles and much much softer than ever in this astro. Keep in mind this is my first astro so I DONT know how the shift when they are working properly. All the other shifts were nice and smooth and you couldnt hardly feel the overdrive shift unless you were waiting for it.
So here is the question --- Is it normal for the 1 to 2 shift to be a little hard? All the rest of the shifts were very smooth, not like it was before where thy would actually bring pain to your neck if you werent ready for it. It is very drivable now not scary but Im not sure if its right. ____ to top it off now there is a different error light, I will have to check that tomorrow, SOOOO the low down is... I replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the tranny, no change at all. I changed the tranny filter and installed the knock sensor and there is a huge difference but I dont know if its still right but it is way better.
I am open to suggestions, theories, ideas, or just guesses. I did find the factory manual to be very helpful but it doesnt cover anything like " it should ride like this,etc. Any input is appreciated -- sorry for the saga here but wanted to be clear.
The chemo is working so looks like I will be posting silly here for some time to come.


A J
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » April 16th 2011, 12:06am

I took the van out for a bit of a run today. The first two times it shifted from 1st to 2nd it was a bit rough not real bad but a little rough. After that, it seems as soon as it warmed up, it shifted just fine. I mean it was like a normal automatic and drove out fine. Since the temp seems to make a difference would I be wrong it thinking that a full fluid change would eliminate the problem? I was thinking that the temp thinned out the trans fluid and thats why it performed better when warm. Can anyone shed a little light on this?


Thanks,

A J
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby redfury » April 16th 2011, 3:15am

fluid viscosity is going to cause the van to shift a little different, but tranny fluid isn't affected nearly as badly this time of the year, so changing fluids might work just because it needs to be done, particularly the filter. The 1-2 shift should be firm as you are applying maximum torque through the drivetrain...the higher shift points won't be felt as sharply. You're moving a relatively heavy vehicle and having to break inertia. Once it gets rolling, it's just all easier on the drivetrain.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
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Re: Replaced the 1-2 solenoid in the 4L60E no difference

Postby a2l1 [OP] » April 18th 2011, 2:00am

Well it seems I am in idiot !! It had nothing to do with warming up at all. I forgot to recheck the trans fluid after the initial refill( 2 1/2 quarts) after replacing the filter. I rechecked the trans with it warm and running -- lo and behold it was a full quart and a half low. I added enough to bring it to the midrange mark(almost to the full when hot) and then went for another spin. It is shifting a little hard in the 1-2 shift and you can feel the rest of the shifts but nothing drastic or bad. So it is not shifting butter smooth but it is positive and not really harsh. I can live with it. I will recheck the fluid again tomorrow after a drive. Thanks everyone for all the help. When/if I get the resources to replace the trans I will attempt a rebuild of this one. It may be fun especially since I have a manual now for reference, thanks again Paul.
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