And the vibration persists

And the vibration persists

Postby 1lowcab [OP] » October 16th 2017, 7:55pm

I thought I had this whole vibration thing figured out....guess not.

It's still pretty much the same as its always been, I have no idea what to try next.

It starts at 56mph, at 74mph it oscillates, waves of vibrations go through the van about ever 1-2 seconds, enough to buzz the mirrors so I can't see out of them. Feel it in the seat, pedals, steering wheel...everywhere.
Its also accompanied with a very low frequency hum.

With the front drive shift removed, the van on jack stands with the rear wheels off it vibrates at 56 mph up.

I can rule out the t-case, its been rebuilt with no change
I can rule out the rear drive shaft, I just go back from having the balance checked....for the 3rd time.
I can rule out the tires and rims and everything in the front.
The rearend has been fully rebuilt
Transmission has been replaced along with the torque converter and flexplate, nothing changed
All new motor and trans mounts, no change.

Heres the kicker, just found this out today...

With the rear driveshaft removed so just the engine, trans and t-case are moving it STILL VIBRATES!!!!
But when its in park/neutral and you bring the rpms up you don't feel it, it does have a rough idle.

I replaced the harmonic balancer, no change, ran a compression test, highest cylinder 158, lowest 149.

I'm out of ideas, last resort will be selling it...and thats getting very close.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Mmusicman » October 16th 2017, 8:20pm

About the only thing left that I can think of might be the torque converter... except you already said you changed it
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby CopperFiremistCopperFiremist is online! » October 16th 2017, 8:24pm

So whats up with the rough idle?
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby 1lowcab [OP] » October 16th 2017, 8:40pm

Can't figure the rough idle out either, might be related.

For the engine side of it I have done

Plugs, acdelco
wires, acdelco
New distributor, acdelco (before I knew about the skip white)
Injection spider
LIM
All vac lines
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map
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coolant sensor
iac
tps
cleaned throttle body
replaced timing chain, all the marks lined up perfect
set the cam retard to 0 and did a relearn

This van should run like new. I'm thinking it's just a factory blem, built on a Friday or Monday, lol.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rock-N-Blues » October 16th 2017, 9:50pm

You haven't mentioned the exhaust! Could be a muffler bearing! I'm not being a wise @$$, as that's what Chrysler (in the '70s-'80s) opted to call the rubber pieces that "BEAR" the weight of the "MUFFLER/EXHAUST" system! It could be some part of the system that get's to be under "just the right amount" of tension at specific speeds/loads/conditions that allows it to vibrate against the rubber. One clue is the "very low frequency hum" that you describe and I'm gonna guess that there is no rattling sound associated with it?
Just My $.02 & Probably Due For A Discount!
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby 1lowcab [OP] » October 16th 2017, 10:27pm

I've changed out the hangers and added extra ones with no change in frequency or vibration.



I think I'm done with it, time for it to find a new home.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby CopperFiremistCopperFiremist is online! » October 16th 2017, 11:26pm

Man don't give up now! I know the 4.3Ls came with a balance shaft at some point or some did some didn't. :shrug: Have you tried throwing it in Neutral when its starts vibrating above 56mph? Other suggestion is start it up with belt off and see if the noise is still there at that speed. :2:
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Leeann_93 » October 16th 2017, 11:53pm

Have you looked at the motor/transmission mounts?
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby sadglad » October 17th 2017, 12:25am

If the motor mounts are bad enough the oil pan will rest solid on whatever is under it. I can see that reaching some kind of
resonant frequency and sending vibration through everything. I have a 4.3 oil pan from a junk yard engine that is about half way worn through from bouncing on top of what ever is under it. It was from a 2003 AWD. It is hard to see from below.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby 1lowcab [OP] » October 17th 2017, 1:10am

All the mounts are new acdelco replacements, it has lots of room between the oil pan and axle housing.

I did run it without the belt with no change. Mine does have the balance shaft, can the balance shaft lose time? I know its gear driven off the cam, I don't really see anyway it could but it's really about the only rotating piece left.

Oh yeah, it does it coasting in neutral too.

I've been working on it and trying different things for 2 days straight.....right now I feel like this
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rock-N-Blues » October 17th 2017, 1:19am

Well Sir,
Might I suggest that by now, you just gotta keep going until you find what it is? I you don't, and simply pass the problem down the road to the next owner, it will likely nag you in the back of your mind forever, especially if you like everything else about the vehicle! It's gotta be something fairly simple and likely stupid! Having read a bunch of your posts, you don't seem like the type to give up easily.
Just Sayin'
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Old Barney » October 17th 2017, 1:56am

over looked the plug wiring order when I replaced all my plug wires I messed up on the right side. Yeh I admit I made a mistake with the #1 and #3 as I lost track in the twist in the route. it did take me awhile of going over and over finally discovering the error of my ways. Even with the numbers stamped in the cap. Could have been avoided if I was younger LOL! Gotta blame something. the vibration was horrendous. The engine started and idled fine.

Check you wires one more time please
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rock-N-Blues » October 17th 2017, 2:08am

Old Barney makes a good point! I don't know/see how it could work on a V6 engine, but I've encountered a couple of V8 engines that if you have exactly the correct two wires reversed,it can seem to just be not running too well, with the only real symptoms being sorta rough idle, somewhat lower than expected power and vibration at specific speeds. Another GUESS might be the possibility some sort of an exhaust restriction? I know that if MY personal exhaust is blocked up, there's all sorts of bad Ju-Ju goin' on!
Best O Luck,
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby 1lowcab [OP] » October 17th 2017, 3:22am

I'll give the wires a re-check, but it runs too good for that.

I'm not giving up yet, just needed to blow off some steam, lol!

:violence-minigun: :violence-uzi: :violence-shootself:
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Meterpig » October 17th 2017, 3:28am

I have a wonky vibration..but it started right after the used Tcase went in. Rear driveshaft has been rebuilt so..not that.

Hmmmmm
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rinny » October 17th 2017, 4:08am

I had about the same scenario with the vibration. It was the pinion angle and really never straightened out till I had the van loaded with all my gear and the security screens in. Several hundred pounds. It was better. Then I lessened the angle on the front axels and it disappeared. I think a new transmission mount also helped. I would start with loading the van with 3 or 400 pounds rite over the rear axel and see if it makes a difference. If it improves I would add weight or take it away until it does not change and when it is as good as you can get it check the pinion angle. Back off on the torsion bars some too? Just my 2 cents.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rock-N-Blues » October 17th 2017, 7:58am

Rinny,
He did state, earlier in this thread that he had actually tested without a drive shaft and still had the vibration at similar speeds. I'm not sure how one could do that without puking transmission fluid, but....? Not being familiar with this AWD setup, I guess I'm assuming that the AWD drive shafts connect to the transfer case in a different manner than to a regular RWD transmission with a slip yoke? However is it possible that besides having things line up for the flex plate>torque converter>transmission>transfer case> drive shaft(s) connections that there is maybe a specific way one or another of those connections needs to be specifically indexed?

I know that many drive shaft issues can be corrected, at least partly, by simply rotating the drive shaft 180 degrees at the rear yoke. And some slip yokes have a mark that needs to lined up with another mark on the transmission output shaft. I'm just spitballin' here. but these may be things to research? He has already tried all the simple, smart and even some in depth stuff! Pinion angle is certainly another good suggestion to check, especially if the van has been lifted. Driveshaft/pinion angles can be pretty finicky, particularly on an AWD vehicle where everything needs to operate "In Sync" with each other. Bear in mind that a drive shaft with u-joints operates in a kinda controlled wobble/vibration, with the discrepancy of one joint getting cancelled by the opposite discrepancy of another u-joint. When you watch videos, simulations, explanations, etc, of what's actually going on, it's pretty bizarre!

Not sure if this is the best link, or the one I've been to before, but it will give more info about drivelines than you ever thought you wanted to know!

http://www.ocdriveshaft.com

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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Mmusicman » October 17th 2017, 1:56pm

1lowcab wrote:With the rear driveshaft removed so just the engine, trans and t-case are moving it STILL VIBRATES!!!!
But when its in park/neutral and you bring the rpms up you don't feel it, it does have a rough idle..

Logic would dictate (considering your explanation) that the vibration could be coming from the trans or t-case... since they are the only thing that seems to cause the vibration. Since the trans, converter, and flex plate have been changed, that leave only the t-case. Although it has been "rebuilt"... it still has the same internal "hard parts". Something could still be bad, broken, or out of balance in the t-case. The fact it had to be rebuilt in the first place adds suspicion. It doesn't seem likely, but then again, neither does this whole situation.

Lastly, it is possible the engine has an issue, which presents itself under load.
Many examples of people who thought they had bad transmissions when it turned out to be an engine issue.

I have personally experienced the vibration you describe, but mine was caused by a 502 big block on solid mounts. :mrgreen:
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby EvanT » October 17th 2017, 5:07pm

Sounds like some painful troubleshooting. Just to add my two cents... If it were engine related, I'd expect you to feel something when you run through the lower gears. The vibration would vary with engine speed rather than vehicle speed. And the fact that you feel the vibration while coasting in neutral (assuming you let the engine RPM drop) confirms this.

You've wisely managed to isolate the problem by disconnecting a few things, so I agree with Mmusicman that its probably something with the T-case. If the transmission, torque converter and flexplate were REPLACED and the T-case was REBUILT... I don't see where else to go with this.
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Re: And the vibration persists

Postby Rock-N-Blues » October 17th 2017, 5:46pm

EvanT wrote:Sounds like some painful troubleshooting. Just to add my two cents... If it were engine related, I'd expect you to feel something when you run through the lower gears. The vibration would vary with engine speed rather than vehicle speed. And the fact that you feel the vibration while coasting in neutral (assuming you let the engine RPM drop) confirms this.

You've wisely managed to isolate the problem by disconnecting a few things, so I agree with Mmusicman that its probably something with the T-case. If the transmission, torque converter and flexplate were REPLACED and the T-case was REBUILT... I don't see where else to go with this.


My thoughts exactly! This is what led to the thought of indexing of components "OR" a faulty part and/or assembly error in the T-case rebuild or R&R process. Though it could still be in the output section of the transmission, as when engine is running inpark/neutral, there are many parts not moving. I'd love to see a diagram or pic of how the output of the trans is connected to the input of the T-case.

If "1lowcab" can muster the patience to see this through to resolution, it will be interesting to find out WHAT the one simple culprit actually is!

A Real "Who Done It" Stumper Here,
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