overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby tinworm [OP] » September 4th 2011, 2:09am

Pulled a 6x12 enclosed U-haul trailer about 100 miles over hilly roads empty today. Got out and the back of the van, and the front of the trailer were totally covered in tranny fluid. Looks like it overheated and blew ATF out the rear seal, and maybe the front seal as well, there are a couple marks coming out the bell housing. Seems to still function normally, so I may have gotten away with this for now, but in two days Ill be pulling the trailer back, and it will be loaded.

I have a couple free hours to install an aftermarket tranny cooler, where is the best place to tap in?
Original Poster [OP]
tinworm
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L1)
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L1)
Years of Membership: tinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 545
Topics: 65
Images: 1
Joined: October 2010
Location: RI
Alias (AKA):
Van Model Year: 2005
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro

  • Similar topics
    Replies
    Views
    Author
  • Tranny cooler install help
    by Chunkstyle » August 11th 2020, 11:13pm in Automatic
    6 Replies
    570 Views
    Last post by Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! View the latest post
    August 14th 2020, 12:06am
  • 07 Colorado tranny in 00 Astro
    by dasvigo » July 5th 2020, 4:56am in Automatic
    1 Replies
    195 Views
    Last post by Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! View the latest post
    July 6th 2020, 11:18pm
  •  
    8
    14
    Last post by AstroSafari.com View the latest post
    October 21st 2020, 2:22am

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby Phantom » September 4th 2011, 2:21am

The top transmission line going into the radiator , connect a Hayden part #390 or
Imperial part # 240390 fitting , screws right on the radiator and you then attach a hose from there and go nto the cooler , then out of the cooler into the line that was connected to the radiator , the fitting kit has both fittings for both ends , makes it quick and easy fitment

fitting kit at
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... 5728376___
Attachments
Trans cooler  679.JPG
Trans cooler 679.JPG (85.37 KiB) Viewed 1420 times
Last edited by Phantom on September 4th 2011, 2:48am, edited 2 times in total.
Phantom
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Years of Membership: Phantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 3725
Topics: 15
Joined: July 2010
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby redfury » September 4th 2011, 2:38am

You are going to want to change that tranny fluid and filter ASAP, and unfortunately you have lessened the life of the transmission. Make sure you are only pulling that trailer in 3rd gear, it's too much weight for 4th/OD. Your mileage won't suffer as much as your transmission repair bill will. Hopefully you were blowing transmission fluid out of the vent hole from it expanding from the heat and not from any seals. Make sure you are topped off and get a plate style transmission cooler, not the vaned looped hose style. The plate style looks more like an actual radiator and costs more, but it's better. Make sure you use high pressure hose and double clamp it! If you are going to continue to pull trailers with it, seriously consider getting a transmission temp gauge installed so you can monitor it. Pulling flat isn't a big deal, but the hills are what kills you as the tranny hunts for the right gear over and over, which is where the majority of the friction happens, and HEAT KILLS TRANSMISSIONS.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
User avatar
redfury
U.S. Armed Forces
U.S. Armed Forces
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: redfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 2958
Topics: 53
Images: 13
Joined: December 2010
Location: isanti, mn
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Mike
Van Model Year: 1998
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LT 5.7L 4wd

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby redfury » September 4th 2011, 2:42am

BTW, does the fluid SMELL like it overheated? If it doesn't, then you are going to want to look at you transmission lines for leakage as well. I blew a line completely off my van and lost 6 quarts real fast. The lines are held in place by metal clips and the fittings have 0 rings in them. If you suspect the line, buy a NEW FITTING. They cost about 10 bucks and are worth it as the aftermarket clips are garbage and you can't reuse the old ones. MAKE SURE you get the plastic piece snapped back on completely if you do end up replacing the fitting as it holds the clip in place ( keeps it from expanding ).
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
User avatar
redfury
U.S. Armed Forces
U.S. Armed Forces
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: redfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 2958
Topics: 53
Images: 13
Joined: December 2010
Location: isanti, mn
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Mike
Van Model Year: 1998
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LT 5.7L 4wd

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 4th 2011, 2:44am

redfury wrote: Hopefully you were blowing transmission fluid out of the vent hole from it expanding from the heat and not from any seals.


so you are saying that fluid expands with heating?
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 4th 2011, 2:47am

tinworm wrote:Pulled a 6x12 enclosed U-haul trailer about 100 miles over hilly roads empty today. Got out and the back of the van, and the front of the trailer were totally covered in tranny fluid. Looks like it overheated and blew ATF out the rear seal, and maybe the front seal as well, there are a couple marks coming out the bell housing. Seems to still function normally, so I may have gotten away with this for now, but in two days Ill be pulling the trailer back, and it will be loaded.

I have a couple free hours to install an aftermarket tranny cooler, where is the best place to tap in?


did the engine overheat? might want to check the cooling system.
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby redfury » September 4th 2011, 3:04am

drmmhmd wrote:
redfury wrote: Hopefully you were blowing transmission fluid out of the vent hole from it expanding from the heat and not from any seals.


so you are saying that fluid expands with heating?


Yes, which is why you check your transmission fluid level when the vehicle is up to operating temp, not cold. Look at your dipstick for your power steering fluid and see the difference in the line height between the "cold" and "hot" position.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
User avatar
redfury
U.S. Armed Forces
U.S. Armed Forces
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: redfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 2958
Topics: 53
Images: 13
Joined: December 2010
Location: isanti, mn
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Mike
Van Model Year: 1998
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LT 5.7L 4wd

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby tinworm [OP] » September 4th 2011, 12:55pm

Phantom wrote:The top transmission line going into the radiator , connect a Hayden part #390 or
Imperial part # 240390 fitting , screws right on the radiator and you then attach a hose from there and go nto the cooler , then out of the cooler into the line that was connected to the radiator , the fitting kit has both fittings for both ends , makes it quick and easy fitment

fitting kit at
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... 5728376___


great, thanks! Advance auto parts is my favorite place

redfury wrote:You are going to want to change that tranny fluid and filter ASAP, and unfortunately you have lessened the life of the transmission. Make sure you are only pulling that trailer in 3rd gear, it's too much weight for 4th/OD. Your mileage won't suffer as much as your transmission repair bill will. Hopefully you were blowing transmission fluid out of the vent hole from it expanding from the heat and not from any seals. Make sure you are topped off and get a plate style transmission cooler, not the vaned looped hose style. The plate style looks more like an actual radiator and costs more, but it's better. Make sure you use high pressure hose and double clamp it! If you are going to continue to pull trailers with it, seriously consider getting a transmission temp gauge installed so you can monitor it. Pulling flat isn't a big deal, but the hills are what kills you as the tranny hunts for the right gear over and over, which is where the majority of the friction happens, and HEAT KILLS TRANSMISSIONS.


Definitely not only from the vent hole, there is a major spray pattern from the rear seal, and probably the front seal as well, there are twin leaks out of both sides of the bell housing. Is the vent over on the passenger side? there is a leak on that side as well. Nothing is currently leaking, but I definitely toasted it. I never tow in OD, only in D, and only max 60 mph, but there were some serious grades. Tranny has about 180,000 miles on it.

redfury wrote:BTW, does the fluid SMELL like it overheated? If it doesn't, then you are going to want to look at you transmission lines for leakage as well. I blew a line completely off my van and lost 6 quarts real fast. The lines are held in place by metal clips and the fittings have 0 rings in them. If you suspect the line, buy a NEW FITTING. They cost about 10 bucks and are worth it as the aftermarket clips are garbage and you can't reuse the old ones. MAKE SURE you get the plastic piece snapped back on completely if you do end up replacing the fitting as it holds the clip in place ( keeps it from expanding ).


Ill check today, have not smelled the fluid and level is inaccurate as the van is parked on a very steep hill at a job site

drmmhmd wrote:
tinworm wrote:Pulled a 6x12 enclosed U-haul trailer about 100 miles over hilly roads empty today. Got out and the back of the van, and the front of the trailer were totally covered in tranny fluid. Looks like it overheated and blew ATF out the rear seal, and maybe the front seal as well, there are a couple marks coming out the bell housing. Seems to still function normally, so I may have gotten away with this for now, but in two days Ill be pulling the trailer back, and it will be loaded.

I have a couple free hours to install an aftermarket tranny cooler, where is the best place to tap in?


did the engine overheat? might want to check the cooling system.


The engine never overheated, the cooling system has been totally revamped very recently. It has a brand new radiator, water pump, thermostat, and fresh coolant. However, engine is tired, and does have a tendency to blow smoke on start up, which clears away after about 10 seconds.
Original Poster [OP]
tinworm
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L1)
Firing on 5 Cylinders (L1)
Years of Membership: tinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full yearstinworm has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 545
Topics: 65
Images: 1
Joined: October 2010
Location: RI
Alias (AKA):
Van Model Year: 2005
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby paintdrying » September 4th 2011, 1:24pm

Could you just by-pass the radiator all together and just connect a cooler directly?
1999 chevy astro van awd ls 108,000 miles
parts van 2000 astro rwd 279,000 miles
User avatar
paintdrying
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L2)
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L2)
Years of Membership: paintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 1384
Topics: 94
Images: 1
Joined: November 2010
Location: vermont
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: 108 000

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby redfury » September 4th 2011, 4:39pm

paintdrying wrote:Could you just by-pass the radiator all together and just connect a cooler directly?


NO! That defeats the intent of the original cooler. The original cooler just doesn't have the capacity to deal with the tired engine not having enough grunt to keep the transmission pulling in one gear, so it hunts for the right gear on inclines, which causes a lot of heat to build up faster than it can dissipate it. You should pull in 3rd gear only if you have a tired vehicle for sure and only use the 4th gear when traveling on a flat grade for a long distance if you are going to use it.

Just having the tranny run through an external cooler does you no good when at a stop or when there is no air movement across it, and liquid contact cools better than air, which is why there are so few air cooled engines, short of our small gas motors. Also, you want the heat of the coolant to help bring the tranny oil up to temp so the system can function properly. Thick hydraulic oil throws pressures off inside the transmission and you will find that some vehicles ( such as my 97 dakota ) won't shift into overdrive until the transmission has warmed the fluid up enough. Mine would kill O/D if the temp was below -10.
A temporary fix usually becomes a permanent solution, therefore it does not exist.
doghouse removal by me!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIJ0kuROlbU
User avatar
redfury
U.S. Armed Forces
U.S. Armed Forces
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: redfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full yearsredfury has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 2958
Topics: 53
Images: 13
Joined: December 2010
Location: isanti, mn
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Mike
Van Model Year: 1998
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LT 5.7L 4wd

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby rev_les » September 4th 2011, 6:37pm

redfury wrote:
paintdrying wrote:Could you just by-pass the radiator all together and just connect a cooler directly?


NO! That defeats the intent of the original cooler. The original cooler just doesn't have the capacity to deal with the tired engine not having enough grunt to keep the transmission pulling in one gear, so it hunts for the right gear on inclines, which causes a lot of heat to build up faster than it can dissipate it. You should pull in 3rd gear only if you have a tired vehicle for sure and only use the 4th gear when traveling on a flat grade for a long distance if you are going to use it.

Just having the tranny run through an external cooler does you no good when at a stop or when there is no air movement across it, and liquid contact cools better than air, which is why there are so few air cooled engines, short of our small gas motors. Also, you want the heat of the coolant to help bring the tranny oil up to temp so the system can function properly. Thick hydraulic oil throws pressures off inside the transmission and you will find that some vehicles ( such as my 97 dakota ) won't shift into overdrive until the transmission has warmed the fluid up enough. Mine would kill O/D if the temp was below -10.

I disagree, I eliminated my radiator from the loop entirely, and I tow with no problems.I pulled a trailer from Houston to Des Moines, Iowa and back, recently, trouble free. I put a cooler on it rated for way larger than the weight of the van and whatever it may be carrying. At idle, the fan pulls air across it, and at idle, you're not really heating the trans anyway. My transmission guy suggested doing it that way, as well as a guy I had re-tank the radiator some years back. As far as the temp of the fluid, I don't warm my vehicle up, but I drive it easy until it's at operating temp.
Figure out the problem before buying parts
NRA Lifetime Member
2'nd amendment supporter
'13 Jeep Patriot
'01 Safari 150K 4.3 "W" 3.42's
'87 Monte Carlo SS
'79 Avco 32' RV
User avatar
rev_les
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: rev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full yearsrev_les has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 2235
Topics: 39
Joined: February 2009
Location: Pinehurst TX
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Les
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LS 4.3 RWD

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby paintdrying » September 4th 2011, 7:43pm

that makes perfect sense. Thanks
1999 chevy astro van awd ls 108,000 miles
parts van 2000 astro rwd 279,000 miles
User avatar
paintdrying
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L2)
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L2)
Years of Membership: paintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full yearspaintdrying has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 1384
Topics: 94
Images: 1
Joined: November 2010
Location: vermont
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: 108 000

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby Phantom » September 4th 2011, 8:11pm

In climates where it gets cold in winter ,,,removing the radiator cooler will prevent the transmission from warming up as soon as it needs to be , if you notice that the line from transmission to the radiator goes to the bottom first where the water is the coolest and goes up to the top where it is warmer. It is routed this way for vehicles in climates where people get in and drive shortly after starting their cars , it take about 10 miles of driving in warm weather in this configuration to get the transmission fluid up to operating temp, in the very cold of winter it can take 20 miles to get up to operating temp.
If the radiator is removed from the route it will take much longer for the fluid to warm up and result in excessive wear on transmission internal parts and shorten life of the transmission without the driver realizing it .. Without realizing is the important part , it be like if you only changed engine oil every few years , it shortens the life of moving parts .

Just sitting idling in neutral or park the trans is not engaged so the fluid not under the same stress as when engaged in gear with foot on the brake

Another thing to note that in stop and go traffic where the airflow is being blocked while sitting in traffic with trans in gear and foot on brake the transmission fluid is heating up fast ,, therefore even in warmer climates where it does not get cold , you still need proper cooling which can come in the form of adding an external fan to the external trans oil cooler , that way the fluid can get proper cooling while sitting in stop and go traffic

here is a 10 inch fan , they make an 8 inch also

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... OOLAMS____
Phantom
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Years of Membership: Phantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 3725
Topics: 15
Joined: July 2010
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 2:03am

redfury wrote:
drmmhmd wrote:
redfury wrote: Hopefully you were blowing transmission fluid out of the vent hole from it expanding from the heat and not from any seals.


so you are saying that fluid expands with heating?


Yes, which is why you check your transmission fluid level when the vehicle is up to operating temp, not cold. Look at your dipstick for your power steering fluid and see the difference in the line height between the "cold" and "hot" position.



fluids do not expand when they are hot.
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 2:08am

Phantom wrote:In climates where it gets cold in winter ,,,removing the radiator cooler will prevent the transmission from warming up as soon as it needs to be , if you notice that the line from transmission to the radiator goes to the bottom first where the water is the coolest and goes up to the top where it is warmer. It is routed this way for vehicles in climates where people get in and drive shortly after starting their cars , it take about 10 miles of driving in warm weather in this configuration to get the transmission fluid up to operating temp, in the very cold of winter it can take 20 miles to get up to operating temp.
If the radiator is removed from the route it will take much longer for the fluid to warm up and result in excessive wear on transmission internal parts and shorten life of the transmission without the driver realizing it .. Without realizing is the important part , it be like if you only changed engine oil every few years , it shortens the life of moving parts .

Just sitting idling in neutral or park the trans is not engaged so the fluid not under the same stress as when engaged in gear with foot on the brake

Another thing to note that in stop and go traffic where the airflow is being blocked while sitting in traffic with trans in gear and foot on brake the transmission fluid is heating up fast ,, therefore even in warmer climates where it does not get cold , you still need proper cooling which can come in the form of adding an external fan to the external trans oil cooler , that way the fluid can get proper cooling while sitting in stop and go traffic

here is a 10 inch fan , they make an 8 inch also

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... OOLAMS____


most engines idle slower than the stall speed of the converter
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 2:30am

paintdrying wrote:Could you just by-pass the radiator all together and just connect a cooler directly?


Certainly you can do this if your cooler is big enough. This is done in race cars all the time. You can also get thermostats that open the line to the cooler at a certain temperature. As a rule the life of a transmission is cut in half for every 10 degrees about 165 degrees. Both my Safari vans had 195 degree thermostats in them when I got them. I put 165 degree thermostats in and the emissions only changed a very small amount. If you are serious about towing and keeping a transmission you need to change the engine thermostat and put in a deep transmission pan and a remote oil filter to increase volume. If you can afford a full size oil cooler with a fan you can bypass the radiator cooler. I have a 4 litre oversize deep pan and a duel canister oil filter to increase volume. Some pans have bungs to add a temperature sender. I have a hand held digital temperature scanner and the temperature at the pan is only marginally higher than the temperature at the inlet of the cooler once everything is heated up. So if you want to add a temperature gauge I personally would not mount it underneath the truck, especially if you do any bushwacking.
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby throrope » September 5th 2011, 2:56am

I'm with drmmhmd & redfury.

We installed an auxiliary cooler at 60K and towed a 4500# camper up and down the east coast for years with no transmission issues as our Astro went well beyond 100K. I re-purposed our auxiliary trans cooler when I ran into difficulty with the oil cooler. The next trip towing our camper on a steep grade, I found trans fluid everywhere. Talked to the dealer and we both agreed it blew out the vent. Returned to a trans cooler and all better. Since seals don't heal, I suspect you experienced same. Also, the burning oil smell may be fluid burning on the exhaust pipe and not in the transmission.

I understand heat is the death of transmissions and towing heavy loads and up grades generates plenty. I agree keeping the radiator cooler second in series with the original radiator coil keeps prevents excessive temperature and maintains operating temperature.

Ours is also a plate type and with 194K is still on the job and we don't warm it up or baby it beyond normal driving habits. IMHO, based on our experience, towing or not an auxiliary trans cooler is cheap insurance.
User avatar
throrope
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L1)
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L1)
Years of Membership: throrope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full yearsthrorope has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 230
Topics: 3
Joined: February 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: LT 4.3L AWD

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby Phantom » September 5th 2011, 3:33am

drmmhmd wrote:
Phantom wrote:In climates where it gets cold in winter ,,,removing the radiator cooler will prevent the transmission from warming up as soon as it needs to be , if you notice that the line from transmission to the radiator goes to the bottom first where the water is the coolest and goes up to the top where it is warmer. It is routed this way for vehicles in climates where people get in and drive shortly after starting their cars , it take about 10 miles of driving in warm weather in this configuration to get the transmission fluid up to operating temp, in the very cold of winter it can take 20 miles to get up to operating temp.
If the radiator is removed from the route it will take much longer for the fluid to warm up and result in excessive wear on transmission internal parts and shorten life of the transmission without the driver realizing it .. Without realizing is the important part , it be like if you only changed engine oil every few years , it shortens the life of moving parts .

Just sitting idling in neutral or park the trans is not engaged so the fluid not under the same stress as when engaged in gear with foot on the brake

Another thing to note that in stop and go traffic where the airflow is being blocked while sitting in traffic with trans in gear and foot on brake the transmission fluid is heating up fast ,, therefore even in warmer climates where it does not get cold , you still need proper cooling which can come in the form of adding an external fan to the external trans oil cooler , that way the fluid can get proper cooling while sitting in stop and go traffic

here is a 10 inch fan , they make an 8 inch also

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... OOLAMS____


most engines idle slower than the stall speed of the converter


Perhaps so ,, but rather a moot point , as idling in gear means the transmission is engaged which means excessive heat build up on the fluid and parts ,,

ALL of my info comes directly from GM engineering dept , and SPX Filtran (makers of all oem)and Hayden transmissions , one of the most Highly respected companies in this area expertise ,
according to them transmission temp;
174 degrees is the optimum temp to operate at , life expectancy is easy 100,000
195 ---------------------------------------> 50,000
220----------------------------------------->20.000
240 ----------------------------------------->10,000 Varnish forms on parts
260------------------------------------------> 5000 Seals harden
295------------------------------------------->1500 Plates slip
315--------------------------------------------> 800 Seals & Clutches Burn Out , Carbon forms

When I was planning on installing a cooler on my van I spoke with several transmissions shops and received a different opinion from nearly every shop transmission tech I spoke with , so I decided to engage with the higher level engineers who design transmissions rather than just guys who replace the parts
Phantom
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Firing on 7 Cylinders (L4)
Years of Membership: Phantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full yearsPhantom has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 3725
Topics: 15
Joined: July 2010
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 4:26am

drmmhmd wrote:
Phantom wrote:In climates where it gets cold in winter ,,,removing the radiator cooler will prevent the transmission from warming up as soon as it needs to be , if you notice that the line from transmission to the radiator goes to the bottom first where the water is the coolest and goes up to the top where it is warmer. It is routed this way for vehicles in climates where people get in and drive shortly after starting their cars , it take about 10 miles of driving in warm weather in this configuration to get the transmission fluid up to operating temp, in the very cold of winter it can take 20 miles to get up to operating temp.
If the radiator is removed from the route it will take much longer for the fluid to warm up and result in excessive wear on transmission internal parts and shorten life of the transmission without the driver realizing it .. Without realizing is the important part , it be like if you only changed engine oil every few years , it shortens the life of moving parts .

Just sitting idling in neutral or park the trans is not engaged so the fluid not under the same stress as when engaged in gear with foot on the brake

Another thing to note that in stop and go traffic where the airflow is being blocked while sitting in traffic with trans in gear and foot on brake the transmission fluid is heating up fast ,, therefore even in warmer climates where it does not get cold , you still need proper cooling which can come in the form of adding an external fan to the external trans oil cooler , that way the fluid can get proper cooling while sitting in stop and go traffic

here is a 10 inch fan , they make an 8 inch also

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... OOLAMS____


most engines idle slower than the stall speed of the converter


1) "In climates where it gets cold in winter ,,,removing the radiator cooler will prevent the transmission from warming up as soon as it needs to be"

Not true, the transmission creates its own heat. If you bypassed the cooler and ran the lines in a loop I assure you that it will heat up very quickly. Running the fluid into the radiator cooler will always cool it as long as the engine water temperature is cooler than the transmission oil temperature. When an engine starts the water temperature is of course at ambient temperature. Water in the radiator does very little to no circulation until the thermostat opens. This can take several minutes driving and considerably longer idling. This makes the thermodynamic gradient to the radiator coolant, the transmission heats up the water in the radiator initially.


"if you notice that the line from transmission to the radiator goes to the bottom first where the water is the coolest and goes up to the top where it is warmer. It is routed this way for vehicles in climates where people get in and drive shortly after starting their cars"

2) So what you are saying is that the cooler lines are set up to heat the transmission fluid. Modern transmission fluids maintain their lubricity at extremes of operating temperatures. Modern engine oils maintain their lubricity at extremes of operating temperatures. Some engine transmission combinations have a thermostatic switch to prevent OD from being engaged (4L60E) until the engine reaches operating temperature. The auto manufacturers of course do not design their cars for people who go on short drives in the winter. The obvious is that the radiator slows the transmission from reaching operating temperature since no engine heat gets to the transmission cooler until the thermostat opens. For the relationship between the radiator and the transmission to work, the engine coolant must be cooler than the transmission fluid, the net thermodynamic gradient must flow from high to low. Obviously the transmission runs hotter than the engine for the relationship to work.

3) "If the radiator is removed from the route it will take much longer for the fluid to warm up and result in excessive wear on transmission internal parts and shorten life of the transmission without the driver realizing it"

Obviously the opposite is true, if you remove the radiator the transmission fluid warms up much quicker. High end transmission coolers have a thermostat bypass to aid fluid warm up. The fluid bypasses the cooler until it reaches a specified temperature.
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Re: overheated tranny, need to install emergency oil cooler

Postby drmmhmd » September 5th 2011, 4:37am

Phantom wrote:

ALL of my info comes directly from GM engineering dept , and SPX Filtran (makers of all oem)and Hayden transmissions , one of the most Highly respected companies in this area expertise ,

When I was planning on installing a cooler on my van I spoke with several transmissions shops and received a different opinion from nearly every shop transmission tech I spoke with , so I decided to engage with the higher level engineers who design transmissions rather than just guys who replace the parts


So SPX Filtran is making all OEM GM transmissions now?

So what did these higher level engineers tell you, that you "engaged with". That you should install one of their products? Obvious on that one. I am guessing that you "engaged them" by reading their website? How do you control the operating temperature of your transmission? Do you have a thermostatic control? Obviously thermal output varies and the engine coolant temperature varies so how did you maintain this 174 degree ideal target? I am curious as to how this "engagement" enriched your bolt in cooler application.
drmmhmd
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Firing on 1 Cylinder (L1)
Years of Membership: drmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full yearsdrmmhmd has been a member for 9 full years
Posts: 157
Joined: July 2011
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: AWD 400 CID

Next

 
  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Automatic

It is currently October 21st 2020, 2:22am

Automatic Forum
AutomaticThe purpose of an Automatic Transmission is similar to that of a manual transmission, the auto tranny's primary duty is to allow the engine to operate in its narrow range of speeds while providing a wide range of output speeds.
To create a new topic in Automatic, click this button:
Previous topic Next topic
Recent Image Attachments
Attached by:
Chunkstyle
in Automatic
Views: 570
Comments: 6
Date: Aug 11 '20
Time: 8:25pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Attached by: Mmusicman
Mmusicman
in Automatic
Views: 426
Comments: 11
Date: Jul 26 '20
Time: 1:22pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Olivier02
in Automatic
Views: 346
Comments: 4
Date: Jun 13 '20
Time: 9:22pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
SoccerMom4x4
in Automatic
Views: 968
Comments: 15
Date: Jun 12 '20
Time: 2:50pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
SoccerMom4x4
in Automatic
Views: 968
Comments: 15
Date: Jun 11 '20
Time: 2:12pm
» Read last comment
Sponsors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests