THIS is... Your TC.

THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » May 22nd 2014, 2:44am

Just thought I'd show you what your Torque Converter most-likely looks like inside and out. (If your van is a Gen 2 and if you have your stock transmission.)

!cid__0521140814.jpg

!cid__0521140841.jpg

Hub is bad. Gotta cut it off :lol:
!cid__0521140844.jpg

!cid__0521140854.jpg


I labeled it. Just for you. :)
!cid__0521140902.jpg

It's numbered in order Flywheel side to Transmission side.


EDIT: Your ATF fluid is supposed to be Reddish-Pink by the way. NOT BROWN. SO CHANGE YOUR FLUID. :thumbup:
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby SilverBullet1997 » May 22nd 2014, 4:54am

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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby 97cargocrawler » May 22nd 2014, 5:10am

Internally, how do a high stall and low stall converter differ? Spring force, or?

Thanks for the pix. I wouldn't mind a full explanation of what each part does :mrgreen:
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » May 22nd 2014, 5:58am

97cargocrawler wrote:Internally, how do a high stall and low stall converter differ? Spring force, or?

Thanks for the pix. I wouldn't mind a full explanation of what each part does :mrgreen:


ONLY because you asked. :rofl:

A Torque Converter is basically a fluid coupling. With an A/T transmission, your engine and your transmission aren't directly connected. Take two fans and face them towards each-other. Turn one on and it will spin the other. But- hold the 2nd fan and the first continues spinning, right? Same concept with a TC. The Impeller (#5 in photo) is connected to the cover (#1) which is connected to the flywheel, in turn directly connected to the engine itself. The turbine (#3) is connected to the transmission input shaft. So in other words, unless the [vehicle] is in park or neutral, any movement of the turbine moves the vehicle.
It doesn't use air like the fans though (as you know.)
It uses a thick, non-compression-able liquid (ATF.) The spinning impeller (sometimes referred to as a pump) pushes the ATF into the turbine to cause movement. The thing to keep in mind is that once the ATF has been pushed into the turbine blades, it needs to get back to the impeller so it can be used again. (remember the fans? They were a room full of air- Unlike the transmission, which is a sealed container that only holds so much fluid.) That's where the stator (#4) comes in.
It's not attached to the impeller or turbine. It's "freewheeling". And only in the same direction as the other parts of the converter. A one-way clutch inside of it ensures that it can only spin in one direction. I can take a picture of that tomorrow.
When the impeller spins, the moving fluid pushes against the stator fins. The one-way clutch keeps the stator still, and the fins redirect the fluid back to the impeller. When the turbine speeds up, the fluid begins to flow back to the impeller on its own due to the turbine's design and centrifugal force. Then the fluid pushes on the back side of the stator's fins, and the one-way clutch allows it to spin.
Unfortunately, because it's a fluid design, the impeller will always spin faster than the turbine and this is called "slip" which has to be controlled or the vehicle wont move. That's where the stall speed comes in.
EXAMPLE: a torque converter has a stall speed of 2,500 RPM. If the vehicle isn't moving by the time the engine and impeller reach 2,500 RPM: either the vehicle will start to move, or the engine RPM will stop increasing. If it won't move when the converter reaches the stall speed, either it's overloaded or the brakes are locked. (Driver caused or mechanical issue.)
Stall speed determines when power will be delivered to the transmission. Racing engines produce power at high RPM, so racers will use a converter with a high stall speed, which will slip until the engine is producing high power. Diesel trucks put out most of their power at low RPM, so use a torque converter with a low stall speed.
The use of a lockup clutch (#2) is to directly connect the engine and the transmission once slip is no longer needed. When the lockup clutch is active, a plate attached to the turbine is hydraulically pushed up against the front cover (which is connected to the impeller) creating a connection between the engine and transmission. Having them directly connected lowers the engine speed for a given vehicle speed, which increases fuel economy.
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby 97cargocrawler » May 22nd 2014, 7:13am

Awesome. Thank you for the detailed explanation. So, what all do you do in there to rebuild the unit? Which parts get replaced and which re-used? I ask because I bought a low stall converter from Monster Transmissions a few years back and it was probably a rebuilt unit.
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby Big_kid » May 22nd 2014, 12:43pm

AWESOME write up! Thank you!!
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » May 26th 2014, 3:52am

The lockup clutch:
!cid__0523141104.jpg

!cid__0523141106.jpg
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » May 26th 2014, 3:55am

97cargocrawler wrote:Awesome. Thank you for the detailed explanation. So, what all do you do in there to rebuild the unit? Which parts get replaced and which re-used? I ask because I bought a low stall converter from Monster Transmissions a few years back and it was probably a rebuilt unit.


Let me get back to you on that, I know that we add bearings but I'm not sure what else besides just repairs or changing the stall.
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby gtfasteddy » June 2nd 2014, 3:56pm

Very very good write up man scrumptious food for thought. I'm gonna be rebuilding my 4l60e in a month or to getting all the pieces now, question what determines the stall speed ?
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby 97cargocrawler » June 2nd 2014, 4:17pm

gtfasteddy wrote:Very very good write up man scrumptious food for thought. I'm gonna be rebuilding my 4l60e in a month or to getting all the pieces now, question what determines the stall speed ?


HA! I figured the answer is someplace in that write-up though I couldn't pinpoint it myself...and it was my original question> I thought I would research it further, but I'm too lazy. :oops:
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby chevymaher » June 2nd 2014, 6:38pm

gtfasteddy wrote:Question what determines the stall speed ?

Size of the vanes in the torque converter and the torque the engine produces.
A 4.3 may stall at 1500 and the same converter on a big block will stall at 2500 rpm for example. More torque the higher the stall speed.
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » June 3rd 2014, 8:38pm

97cargocrawler wrote:Internally, how do a high stall and low stall converter differ? Spring force, or?

Thanks for the pix. I wouldn't mind a full explanation of what each part does :mrgreen:


Sorry, too busy with the explanation to see your question.
The fins on the Impeller and Turbine; the spacing between them, how many there are and how high your RPM is determines the stall speed.
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby raziko » June 4th 2014, 10:54am

[email protected] wrote:
97cargocrawler wrote:Internally, how do a high stall and low stall converter differ? Spring force, or?

Thanks for the pix. I wouldn't mind a full explanation of what each part does :mrgreen:


Sorry, too busy with the explanation to see your question.
The fins on the Impeller and Turbine; the spacing between them, how many there are and how high your RPM is determines the stall speed.


"[email protected]"
sorry for the interruption...
i learned from you a lot
thanks for the information :ty:
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby [email protected] [OP] » March 6th 2015, 9:31am

Felt the need to revisit an old post.

We fix the industry, engineering, and factory mistakes companies make.
Machine what needs to be cut down- I find a lot of lockups when they fail tend to shred the cover plate when it activates. It doesn't look nice afterward. So I make things pretty and useable again.

A higher stall converter internally will be heavier (maybe a more accurate word is resistant) and harder to spin, (you know, trying to get high RPM before slipping stops) and the fins will look as if they wont move much with fluid travel. So they'll be spread apart and much more open. It would take quite a bit of force to get them going.

Low stall is the opposite of above^
Easy to spin, starts turning immediately upon fluid contact, etc.

(This part I feel like everyone reading should already know, but I'll say it anyway)
Your stall should closely match the power-band of your motor.
So a standard '97 4.3, you're looking at... 190 hp (140 kW) at 4,400 rpm, 250 lb·ft (339 N·m) at 2,800 rpm
Means your TC stall should be around 2200-2600. Which is a pretty high stall.

Thinking it's the 'High Output' part.

Anybody got any insight on what precisely "High Output" means? I see there's a numbers difference, but what mechanically is it?
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby MmusicmanMmusicman is online! » March 6th 2015, 1:40pm

[email protected] wrote:Anybody got any insight on what precisely "High Output" means?

Higher than standard, normal, or average... It's a "relative" term.
I have a "high output" street engine.. but not a high output race engine (by race engine standards).
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Re: THIS is... Your TC.

Postby Lumpy » March 6th 2015, 5:21pm

Every time I get one of those free LED flashlights from Freight-By-The-Bay, it comes with Chinese batteries marked "HIGH OUTPUT".


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