Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby MixManSC » October 31st 2014, 10:29pm

Direct from the GM Techline eSI. Specific for a 2005 - other years probably do have some differences....

"The ambient light sensor is a light sensitive transistor that varies its voltage signal to the body control module (BCM) in response to changes to the outside (ambient) light level. When the BCM receives this signal it will either turn on the daytime running lamps (DRL) or the headlights for auto headlamp operation. Any function or condition that turns on the headlights will cancel the daytime running lamps operation. With the headlight switch in the OFF position, the headlights will either be turned ON or OFF, after an approximate 8 second delay depending on whether daylight or low light conditions are sensed. The DRL will operate when the ignition switch is in the RUN position, the gear selector is not in the PARK position and the parking brake is released. When these conditions have been met and the ambient light sensor indicates daytime conditions, the DRL will illuminate.

The DRL relay is supplied battery positive voltage by the GAUGES fuse in the IP fuse block. When the BCM requests DRL operation, the DRL relay coil is grounded by the BCM activating the relay. The energized DRL relay bypasses the multifunction headlamp dimmer switch by rerouting ground G110 directly to both low beam headlamp bulbs.

The automatic lamp control (ALC) system and the daytime running lamps (DRL) feature (except the Canadian version) can be temporarily disabled by performing the following procedure:

Turn the ignition to RUN.
Press the DOME OVERRIDE button four times within six seconds.
A chime will sound informing you that the system is off. The system will remain disabled until the ignition is cycled off and then on or by pressing the DOME OVERRIDE button four more times within six seconds. The chime will sound again signaling that the system has been reactivated.

The export vehicle is not equipped with the DRL feature."

On a 12v relay pins 85 and 86 are for the relay coil with 85 being negative and 86 positive. A relay can be activated with either positive or negative. The other 3 pins are for the feed (pin 30) and the relays switching states. With the relay not having its coil energized pin 30 is by default connected to pin 87a and when the relay coil is energized pin 30 connects to pin 87. So according to the GM Techline disabling pin 87 "should" effectively disable the DRL. You could essentially pull the relay and put a jumper in the socket across pins 30 and 87a and would have the same effect or jumpering pin 30 to 87 would force the DRL's to be on all the time (bad idea). My only thinking is maybe the BCM somehow monitors the DRL circuit or the DRL diode to verify that the DRL is functioning. The image is the official GM schematic for the 2005 DRL circuit. In the schematic I'm not 100% sure of the direction of the view on the schematic though (on the relay are you facing the relay or the socket?). Regardless the 2 state pins are 87 and 87a, according to the schematic disabling the wrong one would essentially disable your headlight switch by removing its ground when DRL is not active.. but the headlights might still work if the auto headlights feature is providing an alternate ground. Making my brain hurt - I'm going to look and see if my 2000 is different as I would like to disable the DRL's which is why I ended up in this thread to begin with. lol

Edit to add - if you are curious.... yes the 2000 DRL schematic is definitely different than the 2005. Realistically though it IS the same it just shows things in a different orientation but the pins are the same, even getting the same power for the coil and the same pin on the BCM to get the ground signal to activate the DRL's.

So after thinking on this for a few more after wrapping my head around this a little more I think disabling pin 87 or 87a is really not a good method to go about this. The problem is even though disabling pin 87 prevents the ground from switching to the DRL circuit (this does effectively disable DRL but.... the relay is also still disconnecting the ground from the headlight switch when the BCM activates the relay coil. Considering the BCM monitors all sorts of other functions it is very possible that this will have other unintended effects. I think the correct course of action would be to disconnect the relay coil by either bending pin 85 or 86 (would not matter which one really). I'm going to try this on my 2000 tomorrow and will post the results.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby andrew678122 » November 1st 2014, 1:44am

Very well done! I'll be interested to hear how it responds...
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby catbones » November 1st 2014, 3:57am

Why not do what I did; pop and bend that pin; then by the windshield vent there's your light detection whatever thingie... Take the grill off and pull just slightly on the little round point; believe it's windshield right area. It will come out and about 1 - 2 inches down will have a connector. Disconnect top from wire.

Now go buy one of these;
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 1464871459

Bend it so that one end goes into plug pin 1 and the. Bend the other so the other end goes into connector pin 2.

That's it; put everything back together and now your van thinks we never have night time. Make sure neither end is touching together. Works like a charm for me!
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby andrew678122 » November 1st 2014, 6:49am

catbones wrote:Why not do what I did; pop and bend that pin; then by the windshield vent there's your light detection whatever thingie... Take the grill off and pull just slightly on the little round point; believe it's windshield right area. It will come out and about 1 - 2 inches down will have a connector. Disconnect top from wire.

Now go buy one of these;
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 1464871459

Bend it so that one end goes into plug pin 1 and the. Bend the other so the other end goes into connector pin 2.

That's it; put everything back together and now your van thinks we never have night time. Make sure neither end is touching together. Works like a charm for me!

Here's a quote from me from before:
andrew678122 wrote:I tried this (bending pin 87) on my 2005 Astro and initially it seemed to work, but while out in the van a few weeks later, I noticed the headlights on in the daytime (the headlight switch was off). This was exactly what bending pin 87 was supposed to fix. I also noted other funny stuff happening, sometimes the 'brain' would decide that the headlights were on and dim the instrument lights, no big deal but it meant that the gear shift indicator and the clock/radio display effectively vanished. This was by no means consistent. Does anyone know if this mod just don't work on the 2005? And has anyone else tried it on a 2005 van?

The only thing you're doing different is killing the 'dark' detector...
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby pauldeere » November 1st 2014, 9:57am

What started out as a simple fix sure turned complicated. Think I'll just keep pushing the button 4 time ......
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby MixManSC » November 1st 2014, 2:27pm

Actually if it works by just killing the relay coil it is just disconnecting one wire and a very simple procedure other than it does require you to contort yourself to reach the relay under the dash. Now for me, I do like the automatic headlights so I've not looked into disabling the light sensor.

That being said logic tells me that killing the negative or positive trigger to the relay coil will work perfect and that the BCM will think that it the DRL is still functioning just as it should there is still a possibility that it might not be quite so simple. For example if the BCM says "okay it is bright outside, I'm going to activate the DRL's" and it dutifully grounds the DRL relay coil, and then the BCM somehow monitors the voltage draw on the headlight circuit to verify that the headlights are on. If that is the case then it might not work or again have unintended side effects. Without literally spending hours upon hours of pulling up every schematic for the van and studying them or knowing exactly what the BCM programming does and does not monitor the only way to really be sure is to test it with a bit of trial and error.

It might very well be simple, hopefully so. However it might not.... Reading a bit further in the GM eSI system (this is on a 2000 model) I am finding the following though. One - the ambient light sensor is for both the DRL and auto headlight functions. The BCM does monitor the light sensor.

"The body control module (BCM) monitors CKT 278 in order to determine if the daytime running lights (DRL) or the auto headlights (AHL) should be turned ON in the AUTO mode. When the BCM senses the ambient light sensor voltage between 1.7 4.7 volts (light state) the DRL will be commanded ON. When the BCM senses the ambient light sensor voltage between 0.2 1.0 volts (dark state) the AHL will be commanded ON."

So the BCM expects to see something form the sensor at all times. The sensor uses a 5v reference and it will trigger a DTC (diagnostic trouble code) on the BCM is the monitored voltage drops below .2 volts. So you could use a resistor and bypass the sensor to lock it to a specific voltage. If you put a large enough value resistor to drop the voltage to the range indicated above. This will of course affect both DRL and automatic headlights. For a headlight circuit, due to the extra features of DRL and automatic lighting it is surprisingly complex with a lot of interactions and monitoring for problems which does make a a bit more complex to wrap your head around it and figure out exactly how it works and what happens when certain things are done. In the end though once it is figured out the actual modification should be very simple.

Regardless of all of that I'm going to give it a try but it might take me a day or two to report back on if it works as expected. I think it will though.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby andrew678122 » November 2nd 2014, 12:17am

MixManSC wrote:...
So you could use a resistor and bypass the sensor to lock it to a specific voltage. If you put a large enough value resistor to drop the voltage to the range indicated above. This will of course affect both DRL and automatic headlights. For a headlight circuit, due to the extra features of DRL and automatic lighting it is surprisingly complex with a lot of interactions and monitoring for problems which does make a a bit more complex to wrap your head around it and figure out exactly how it works and what happens when certain things are done. In the end though once it is figured out the actual modification should be very simple.
...

I think that's what catbones did, so we're 2 to 0 for...

And since the BCM looks at the 'dark' sensor that may explain what I was seeing when I only folded the leg on the relay...
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby Lumpy » November 2nd 2014, 12:24am

Replace your Light Emitting Diode DRLs with Dark Emitting Diode DRLs.


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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby andrew678122 » November 2nd 2014, 1:51am

Lumpy wrote:Replace your Light Emitting Diode DRLs with Dark Emitting Diode DRLs.


Lump

All you have to do is wire them up backwards and they become dark emitting diodes...
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby MixManSC » November 6th 2014, 12:08am

Lol.

Well it did not go as expected.... bizarre result. They still came on during the day. That being said I'm wondering if I had previously given the lights an inadvertent route. See one one (at least on the 2000) to make the low beams stay on when high beams are on is to simply ground one of the low beams ground wires to the chassis. Reason being is when you cut the high beams on the vehicle does not cut the positive to the low beams, it cuts the negative.

Regardless I've taken that back off for now, put the pin on the DRL coil back straight and now the DRL's are not coming on during the day. :confusion-scratchheadyellow: So.... I'm starting to think with all the monitoring the computer does that it might be interfering with things as well. I know that when some DTC's get set the computer then can do certain things that can throw things off. So I'm starting to think that the best way to go about certain things is to not mess with the factory system but instead just fool it in some way. If you wanted to disable DRL and auto-headlights then just disabling the light sensor and adding a resistor to it to fool the computer into thinking is is always daylight would work. To disable DRL only it gets considerably more complicated due to the computer monitoring the state of the headlights.

This is one of several of the eSI bulletins on the headlight circuit. Note below that under certain conditions it can just partially disable a function until 100 cycles have completed with no more problems or until the detected issue goes away. This is why some are seeing things change after some amount of time with it working in one manner then suddenly doing something different. The computer is monitoring the headlight switch position, the light sensor, the headlight relay, (and the high beam relay in other notes which also gives other interactions), and the DRL relay. Finding certain things in the eSI system can be tedious and to really figure this all out one would need to find the pages for every one of the inter-related circuits, map out what the computers interactions, monitoring, etc are for each circuit involved. Then look at one method to achieve the goal, then go through all of the circuits to see if the result of the method might cause some unintended consequence. If yes, try another method. It could all be done and figured out on paper. Right now I just don't have time - work has me swamped right now. I'm thinking in another 90 or so ignition cycles my DRL's will suddenly start working again.... lol. On my 99 GMC Sierra its much simpler. The DRL's have their own bulbs, just take the bulbs out.

"The body control module (BCM) monitors and supplies battery voltage to the headlamp relay on CKT 352. When the ambient light sensor is in the DARK state and the headlamp and panel dimmer switch is in the AUTO mode, the BCM supplies battery voltage to the headlamp relay to power up the headlamps. The BCM monitors CKT 352 to determine when the daytime running lights (DRL) should be ON or OFF. When the BCM detects battery voltage on CKT 352 it will turn OFF the DRL. When the BCM detects CKT 352 is low it will turn ON the DRL when the DRL conditions are present.

Conditions for Running the DTC
The battery voltage must be between 9.0 and 16.0 volts.
Ignition switch in the RUN position.
The headlamp and panel dimmer switch must be turned to the ON position or the ambient light sensor must be in the DARK state with the headlamp and panel dimmer switch in the AUTO position.
The park brake must be released.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The headlamps and panel dimmer switch in the AUTO mode.
The ambient light sensor state is in the DARK state.
CKT 352 shorted to ground.
The above conditions must be met for 0.5 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
The headlamps will not operate with the headlamp and panel dimmer switch in the AUTO position and the ambient light state is DARK.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
The DTC will clear immediately after the short to ground on CKT 352 is repaired or the next fault free ignition cycle.
A history DTC will clear after 100 consecutive ignition cycles without a fault present.
History and current DTC(s) can be cleared using a scan tool. "
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby crowdsurferx » April 14th 2015, 11:48pm

Just wanted to point out that on a 97 Cargo just pull the fuse from the fuse box. Thanks for posting this
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby bbhank » October 19th 2015, 1:35am

:driving: This does not work on my 2000 Safari. Neither does removing fuse 15.

Box still difficult to find and gain access to, even with pictures - not enough detail shown behind obd connection. Found box but pictures were of little help.

Question still stands for this model 2000 Safari - How to PERMANENTLY disable the DRLs.

:banghead: PLEASE Enough idle banter. Just answer the question. If you don't have succinct and correct answer, please don't waste our time posting irrelevant garbage.
:ty:
Tnx.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby Rbennett2082 » April 4th 2016, 7:19pm

I did the DRL disable yesterday on my 2003 Astro AWD. Before you disable DRL make sure your Ambient light sensor if equipped is working. Here is what I did.
Step #1 start van check for all lights working.
Step #2 pull lower plastic dash panel for easier access to OBDII connector.
Step#3 unsrew 2 small screws holding ODBII connector in place, then remove relay box facing driver seat will have 4 relays in it.
Step#4 at this point you should see 2 plastic pins pushing through the plastic bracket all the stuff is mounted to, push those through and it will release the box holding RAP and DRL relays.
Step#5 follow instructions from www.lightsout.org. It will describe which relay and which pin to bend over/remove.
Step#6 replace all items in reverse from removal. Test light function. Lights should be off while in gear and light outside.

Keep in mind that this will only turn off the DRL, your Auto lights will still function if your vehicle is equipped.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby bbhank » April 4th 2016, 10:45pm

Thank you.
The site doesn't have anything on the 2000. They say that the method used on a 2005 doesn't work.
I have that box out and have done the pin stuff. Doesn't work either.
Might be model and year specific as to how its done. This "feature" was new then.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby VRTSid » April 4th 2016, 11:06pm

Shad0wXCalibur wrote:
ihatemybike wrote:....or you could just press the dome light button three times and the computer will turn them off.


That doesn't turn them off permanently. Or at least it doesn't on my van.

wait... does this work? I hate these things when Im at the drive in... the override button?
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby bbhank » April 4th 2016, 11:17pm

I hate that also. At the campground - !!!
I use that button as soon as I start up. But the lights have already come on then. I have to do it every time - AND I DO!! That's how much I hate that feature.
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby GuyS » August 31st 2017, 7:56pm

I have a Canadian 2005 Astro that I have camperized. I'd like to be able to use the dome overide button method to temporary disable my DTL. But being from Canada you can't disable DTR. The idiots that make the regulations seem to think Canadians are just too stupid to have a temporary disable function.

For me, I want my isolated house battery to charge up using all the juice available from the alternator......after sitting overnight running my fridge etc. Is there a specific module I can replace to switch the dummed down Canadian system to the US system (one that allows for temporary disabling of the DTL)?
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby AstroWill » August 31st 2017, 8:11pm

I haven't looked at the schematics, but most likely changing the BCM to one from a non-export vehicle would enable that feature. Are you only doing this while parked? If so, try the parking brake, that usually disables the lights if engaged before you turn on the ignition. Page 3-15 in your owners manual.

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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby GuyS » August 31st 2017, 8:32pm

Parking with the engine at idle is not putting out the best juice and efficiency from the alternator. Driving for a hour or so would probably totally recharge my house battery.

Having the override disabled is really a useful and logical function. After an hour you can re-enable by the dome button override feature, turn on your headlights manually ....or if stopping for gas etc, the DTL will automatically reactivate when you turn off/on the engine. My god how simple is that?
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Re: Picture how-to disable DRL 00-03(?)

Postby nosxjeep » August 31st 2017, 9:57pm

Sorry, but I wanted to help without reading too far back in the post.
In my 2005 US model I did this:

2005 Chevy Astro and Safari
Remove the plastic cover from the B pillar behind the driver's seat (or just loosen it enough to swing the bottom outward) and unplug the large diode used to drop the voltage.
To disable Automatic Headlights (which also turn on the dash lights and all the other exterior lights), pull the center defroster grill out, unplug the sensor and insert a 2k ohm resistor into the plug (cover it with tape so the leads cannot short to anything metallic under the dash). This fools the computer into thinking that it is a bright sunny day outside. Leave the sensor where it is, replace the grill, and you're done.

Now, I didn't want my DRLs at all, so perhaps instead of pulling the connector, you could add a switch inline with the power or ground on the connector?
For the Auto headlights I added the resistor as stated above, but also wired in a switch to be able to turn them on when wanted: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=113122&start=80
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