Weird-No Start

Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 20th 2021, 6:04pm

Looking to the gurus for additional technical insight and feedback

Heres the basic detail and scenario.

Van has ran great for 2 years.
Went on 40mi drove to pick something up and on the exit returning home the van started to sputter.
Gas light was on so I assumed it was the culprit. Filled tank, same problem.
Started noticing the starter was winding but was intermittently turning the engine over and cranking.
Charged battery to rule out and that is not the issue.

Checked for spark = good
Check pancake distro cap = all is good
Checked IGN Coil - all seems good

Pulled starter and solenoid turns but doesn't seem to turn over engine except at first pulse.


Suggestions? Starter replacement?
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Big_kid » January 20th 2021, 6:48pm

Forgive my terminology here, just seeking clarification. Did the starter make a "WHIZZZZ" sound instead of the usual "RURURURURUR"?
That would indicate the starter motor turning, but the solenoid not engaging the flexplate.

A grinding sound would indicate worn teeth on the flex plate and likely the starter. Best practice is to replace both at the same time.

"Rururur...cliclclickclickclick" indicates a weak battery or poor connection.

It's tough to diagnose noises and sounds from text.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby AstroWill » January 20th 2021, 7:10pm

Primusblack wrote:Went on 40mi drove to pick something up and on the exit returning home the van started to sputter.
Gas light was on so I assumed it was the culprit. Filled tank, same problem.

I would check the fuel pressure. Did you pull any spark plugs?

Primusblack wrote:Started noticing the starter was winding but was intermittently turning the engine over and cranking.
Charged battery to rule out and that is not the issue.

Checked for spark = good
Check pancake distro cap = all is good
Checked IGN Coil - all seems good

Pulled starter and solenoid turns but doesn't seem to turn over engine except at first pulse.


Suggestions? Starter replacement?

Maybe you could do a video. Could be an electrical problem as well.

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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 21st 2021, 7:17pm

Big_kid wrote:Forgive my terminology here, just seeking clarification. Did the starter make a "WHIZZZZ" sound instead of the usual "RURURURURUR"?
That would indicate the starter motor turning, but the solenoid not engaging the flexplate.

A grinding sound would indicate worn teeth on the flex plate and likely the starter. Best practice is to replace both at the same time.

"Rururur...cliclclickclickclick" indicates a weak battery or poor connection.

It's tough to diagnose noises and sounds from text.




Its was Rururur-ing and was popping when attempting to turn over.
It is now just Rururur-ing once and then just WHIZZZZ as if the engagement bearing is faulty.
I removed and inspected and all gears are clear and not damaged.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Big_kid » January 21st 2021, 8:07pm

Most likely a weak solenoid, I would replace the starter assembly. You can replace just the solenoid, but the motor itself isn't far behind.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 21st 2021, 10:49pm

Big_kid wrote:Most likely a weak solenoid, I would replace the starter assembly. You can replace just the solenoid, but the motor itself isn't far behind.


Just to be clear though, a weak solenoid or starter wouldn't effect the vehicle once its running? In previous weeks it has doing that intermittent popping(backfire) while running and weak throttle. Sometimes it even died at a stop light.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Big_kid » January 22nd 2021, 2:27am

That is correct, a weak starter solenoid would only affect cranking. It would not be a consideration once the engine is running. Before replacing things, have you had the battery and charging system checked?
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 22nd 2021, 3:08am

Ok, thanks for clarification.

I checked the battery and charging system with my DMM and verified there isn't any parasitic draws of any kind.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 24th 2021, 6:57am

Big_kid wrote:That is correct, a weak starter solenoid would only affect cranking. It would not be a consideration once the engine is running. Before replacing things, have you had the battery and charging system checked?



Status Update-
Replaced starter and then van started on 1st crank even after accidentally leaving dome light on overnight.
Thank you.

Van still making the popping sound and definitely sounds like it’s misfiring but haven’t checked anything else yet.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby pmou » January 24th 2021, 4:02pm

Are you still trying to track this down? Are there any trouble codes?
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 24th 2021, 7:04pm

pmou wrote:Are you still trying to track this down? Are there any trouble codes?


Yes i am, and i’ll find out and report back
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby SportsBoy » January 25th 2021, 6:28pm

AstroWill wrote:
Primusblack wrote:Went on 40mi drove to pick something up and on the exit returning home the van started to sputter.
Gas light was on so I assumed it was the culprit. Filled tank, same problem.

I would check the fuel pressure. Did you pull any spark plugs?

Kind of seems like you had two problems? Starter and something related to fuel - I'd follow Will's advice
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » January 27th 2021, 6:22pm

Primusblack wrote:
pmou wrote:Are you still trying to track this down? Are there any trouble codes?


Yes i am, and i’ll find out and report back




As promised the code is P20300
If I run the OEM advanced scan even though my VIN does not have the 8th VIN parameter there is almost 40+ codes but its been that way since I got it and its been running perfectly fine until that mystery drive a few weeks ago.


Here is a video, not sure if it will help to audibly hear it running
https://youtu.be/RZASES-l97A
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Ray M » January 27th 2021, 8:00pm

Sounds like a fuel issue, It doesn't like something going into the cylinders, maybe moisture. Maybe low fuel pressure.
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby pmou » January 28th 2021, 4:04pm

That white puff of smoke (or moisture) had me wondering about that as well. I would agree looking at the fuel system (such as a pressure test) is a good place to start. I am guessing a p20300 is the same as a p0300 -- ie multiple cylinder misfire? if so, are you certain that all the components of the ignition system are in decent shape? distributor, coil, wires, plugs?
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » February 13th 2021, 10:48pm

Replaced distributor , and crank position sensor.
Ign coil, ok.
All other symptoms described above still prevalent.

Fuel pressure test in video link.
Feedback? thoughts?
https://youtu.be/X8Zr4z45f8I
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby AstroWill » February 14th 2021, 5:02pm

Primusblack wrote:If I run the OEM advanced scan even though my VIN does not have the 8th VIN parameter there is almost 40+ codes but its been that way since I got it and its been running perfectly fine until that mystery drive a few weeks ago.

Wait, what?

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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Leeann_93 » February 14th 2021, 6:25pm

Yeah, what?

What scantool are you using?
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » February 17th 2021, 4:24am

Innova 3160g
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Re: Weird-No Start

Postby Primusblack [OP] » February 17th 2021, 4:26am

AstroWill wrote:
Primusblack wrote:If I run the OEM advanced scan even though my VIN does not have the 8th VIN parameter there is almost 40+ codes but its been that way since I got it and its been running perfectly fine until that mystery drive a few weeks ago.

Wait, what?



Wait, what? WHAT?
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