Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 14th 2010, 4:15am

I have an 02 astro AWD, I replaced the started today, when I got it out we noticed that the starter gear was shiney on the back side, like someone had been grinding the starter on the flywheel after the van was already running. So I replaced the starter and it started right up. it shut off ok then I started it again, now I could tell that it was not disengaging! It stat=rted squeeling! and then after I shut it off, as soon as I would turn the ignition to the RUN position it would crank the motor over and start the car! not in the crank position but just the run position!
I think possibly that the ignition switch has gone bad and this is probably what fried the starter! A couple of other symptoms are The security light is on , on the dash. And the spedometer is reading past 100MPH when it is sitting still! It stays peged all the time.

Anyone else hav a similar problem? what was the outcome?
Any ideas?

Chris
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroplane » February 14th 2010, 5:59am

Sounds like the starter request and power contacts are bridged in the ignition switch. Multiple electrical issues as well. In addition, I would also check grounds such as the main body ground. Follow the smaller negative cable from the battery to the radiator support.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby astro355 » February 14th 2010, 8:37am

Astroplane wrote:Sounds like the starter request and power contacts are bridged in the ignition switch. Multiple electrical issues as well. In addition, I would also check grounds such as the main body ground. Follow the smaller negative cable from the battery to the radiator support.


x2, definitely check the grounds.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 14th 2010, 2:57pm

thanks, I will check thoose out!
Chris Collier
Huntsburg, OH

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2000 astro LT AWD
2002 astro LS AWD
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 20th 2010, 9:50pm

I don't quite have this think licked but I am getting closer. I noticed the battery was making a clicking noise when the ven was idleing in the driveway. So I replaced the battery and the speedometer has returned to normal, and the security light is off now.

The starter problem is intermittent and seems like it may be getting better, I am leaning towards a grounding issue. I bought an ignition switch just in case but I don't think I will need it. :banana:
We'll see what it does over the course of the week, I would think if it was the switch it would be more consistant, I could be wrong. Has anyone else had a similar issue/problem?

Chris
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroplane » February 21st 2010, 5:32am

Interesting about the battery. Must have had an internal short. I'm glad that it didn't blow its' cover. As far as the starter goes, there are 2 ways a starter can stick. First, the starter drive gear can bind in the teeth of the flex plate due to insufficient clearance. Second, the request terminal on the starter is energized when it should not be. Specifically, are the wires down by the starter in good shape? Any heat damage or melting causing two or more wires to be bridged?
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 21st 2010, 2:19pm

I looked at the wires down by the starter and they looked OK but maybe i should pull them back farther and see if something in the harness is causing a problem further back. It isn't the starter gear because it will do it after the starter has already disengaged sometimes. It will start and be running for a minute, and then you will hear the starter try to reingage and hear it grind against the flexplate. other times it will go on as soon as the key is turned to the "run" possition.I don't think it is in the switch, I suppose it could be but I think given our climate( North east ohio ) and the fact that they use salt on the roads, and it is winter it seems more likely that it could be a wiring issue under the vanor in the engine compartment.

thanks for all the ideas though, keep them coming!


Chris
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby astro355 » February 21st 2010, 3:33pm

Did you measure the voltage of the old battery?

Was there any corrosion on the battery terminals when you switched the batteries?

Low voltage can cause the symptoms you are talking about. Now whether that was because of a bad battery, bad alternator or corrision causing voltage drops, that will have to be determined.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 21st 2010, 6:52pm

I didn't have a meter to check it, i let someone borrow it an haven't got iti back yet. I switched the battery though with one that is almost new and is good, I don't think it is the battery anymore but more likely a bad ground or corroded wire.
Where is the main engine ground? is there more than one?

Chris
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroplane » February 22nd 2010, 4:17am

Remember, mine is a '97.
Main ground to block should be on either side of the crankshaft pulley. Main body ground: Follow the smaller negative cable from the battery to the radiator support. Two ground wires attached to the rear of the drivers' cylinder head. One ground at the thermostat area.

Two suggestions: Easiest first, start engine and pull starter enable relay in underhood relay center above battery. Does it still engage while running? Put relay back relay after test.
Second, Disconnect request wire from starter and tape so it cannot make contact. Turn key on, should be no crank, If it does crank, defective starter/solenoid, If OK, then start the van by bridging the starter terminals with a old screwdriver. Once it is running, see if it acts up.

The fact that your starter is engaging while the engine is running makes it very simple to test.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby 7starastro » February 27th 2010, 11:31pm

I saw your posting and wondering if you have found a solution to your problem. I have a 2002 Astro AWD and I'm experiencing similar problems. When I started the van and left it in park the starter would re-engage. I can let it idle in neutral and there isn't any problem. I changed the ignition switch but the problem is still there but it doesn't happen as frequently. The starter will also engage when the key is turned on but not all the way to the starting position. Let me know what you have found out.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroplane » February 28th 2010, 5:33am

I'm going to look at a diagram for this tomorrow. Two possibilities are the park neutral safety switch and the starter enable relay. Right now, I'm not sure how the starter is receiving request after it has already started.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby moparcolt [OP] » February 28th 2010, 3:19pm

I tried different relays and it made no difference. but keep lookng!
Chris Collier
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroplane » March 1st 2010, 4:18am

Keep in mind, this is for a 1997 Astro. Symptom: Starter motor engages while engine is running.
Let's start at the Underhood Fuse Relay Center. IGN-A 40A Fuse 6 is hot at all times and provides power to the ignition switch and the Starter Enable Relay via Red wire 242 at cavity A6. When the ignition switch is in the START position, Yellow wire 5 powers CRANK Fuse 8 10A in the I/P Fuse Block and Purple wire 806 provides power to the Park/Neutral Position and Backup Lamp Switch. If the switch is in Park or Neutral, Yellow wire 1737 powers the Starter Enable Relay coil at cavity B6. Black wire 850 cavity A4 provides ground to the coil and terminates at Ground G104 which is located at the Right Side Front of Dash above Blower Motor. If everything works as it is designed, the coil closes the contact inside the SER and bridges power from Red wire 242 A6 to Purple wire 6 terminal B4 which is the starter request wire. Got it? :P

To test Park Neutral Switch, remove SER and probe B6 cavity with a test lamp. Turn ignition to start and light should only be lit in P or N. Try moving the shift lever full range and between ranges and see if you can find a failure. Also, If your problem seems to happen more when cold, test it cold. If it happens more after the engine is warmed up, test it hot.
Also, Black wire 50 (NOT a ground) from Battery to Starter Solenoid must be connected and in good condition.

SER = Starter Enable Relay located in Underhood Fuse Relay Center
cavity = Where the relay plugs in
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Van_Gasoline » February 11th 2011, 2:22am

I'm just wondering if anyone has found a solution to this yet. I have the same thing going on. It happens in both Park and Neutral positions. Also, as with other instances I've read about, my shift indicator isn't working properly. It pretty much will only show "3" or "P" no matter which place I am actually in (this started a few weeks prior to the starter engaging issue) . I already replaced the starter, it seemed the obvious problem at the time, but obviously isn't. There is not short in the column, as it does it at random, no matter if I move the column or bounce it around or not. I believe it might be a short somewhere in or near the wire harnesses at the transmission. The wires look fine, though. Considering the fact that I can't duplicate it by shaking a wire harness or banging on the instrument panel or steering column, I was wondering what accessories might have a wire shorting to trick my starter solenoid. It almost has the frequency of an A/C compressor engaging and disengaging, but I turned off the climate controls to eliminate that idea.

I'd go out and go through all my wiring, but at the moment it's about 3 degrees outside with a negative wind chill. It's been that way for a month.


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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Van_Gasoline » February 20th 2011, 10:02pm

Alright, it seems to have stopped on its own. It may have been ice-bridged contacts from the blizzard we had. I'll never know.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Astroman99 » April 22nd 2014, 5:55pm

I realize that this is an old post but it helped me in my diagnosis. I had the same problem and I fixed it by replacing the Park/Neutral switch mounted on the trans. I did notice that my PRNDL was acting weird and not displaying what gear I was in at times before this happened. I also notice that if I have the van in Neutral it would work just fine. I pulled the starter relay out so it wouldn't keep cranking. I then pulled the crank fuse from under the dash and check for power to see where the short was coming from (ign switch in the RUN position). it was coming from the Relay to the crank fuse and not to from the fuse to the ignition switch. The Park/Neutral switch was between the fuse and the Starter relay. I disconnected the Neutral switch and the short disappeared. I replaced the Park/Neutral Switch and now it works great. I hope this post will help somebody out there.
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Re: Possible ignition/starter engage switch problem

Postby Ricksta » July 11th 2016, 8:12pm

My Astro has been doing the same thing on a average of twice a month. While driving the amp guage would drop way low as if a major short and engine would loose power. I would pull over ,shut it off and let it set. Most times would restart and run fine. because it did not keep doing it by the time I could try to check it it was running fine. My sister has a 2000 Nissan Frontier that started doing this. One day while it was parked it began to smoke frome burning wireing. The heavy wire from solenoid to starter burn in half. after spending hours trying to find the problem i gave up. Knowing that something was causing the solinoid to get 12volt to it I decided to go simple old school. I diconnected the wire. Ran a new line from the fuse box to a starter button and then to the solenoid problem solved. I am going to do the same thing on my Astro. Turn on the key and push the starter button. This elimates the the woreing going through the ignition switch park netural switch etc. A staight seperate line (fused of corse) through a starter button on the dash direct to solenoid. Of corse wiring this way would allow one to start it in any shift lever position such as drive or reverse if the button was pused but if the key is not turned on it would not start. May not be the pro way but works and simple. And god enough for this ol 97. just remember to disconnect the orignal (small) wire to solenoid.
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