Another 95 Starting Problem

Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby bramwell40 [OP] » August 10th 2010, 1:24am

Hello all, again;
You were all so very helpful before I thought I would at least ask for some help before delving any further into this.
About a year ago, we developed a parasitic drain on the battery. Some days we would come out and the van would start up fine; other days the battery would be dead. I had a mechanic look at the starting circuit to diagnose any problems there, but there were none. There is just a constant drain on the system. So, he installed a knife switch on the positive terminal of the battery so each time we stop for any period of time, we disconnect the battery.
After about six months of this, the van started to have problems starting the first time in the morning, but after that it would start up immediately. As days went by, it started having more and more problems starting throughout the day. Then, it would not start at all. I continued to try it for about fifteen minutes and finally got it started. I headed right to the mechanic and ask him to investigate. There were no engine codes, and no other problems except it needed a tune up badly. So, everything was replaced: coil, cap. plugs and wires, ignition module, etc. Then it would start up again like a dream. This continued for a couple of weeks, and then the early morning starting problems, which then disintegrated to no starting at all. It cranks fine, but my wife tried today to start it for about twenty minutes to no avail but a run down battery.
My mechanic saied that they checked the fuel pressure, and it was great cause I had immediately wondered about the fuel pump.
So, any thoughts? I don't know if I need a new pcm, or what. If you have encountered this before, maybe you will be willing to enlighten me.\

Thanks for the time.\

Dave
1995 GMC Safari, 6 cyl. 4.3 L type W engine with 191585 miles, AWD
Original Poster [OP]
User avatar
bramwell40
Fueling (Empty tank)
Fueling (Empty tank)
Years of Membership: bramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 11
Topics: 3
Joined: July 2010
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: 4.3L AWD

  • Similar topics
    Replies
    Views
    Author
  • Another Rear Defrost ??
    by Lowcountry » December 9th 2020, 7:08pm in Electrical
    14 Replies
    360 Views
    Last post by Lowcountry View the latest post
    December 10th 2020, 11:07pm
  • another turn signal post
    by paulbot » January 21st 2021, 1:12am in Electrical
    5 Replies
    187 Views
    Last post by paulbot View the latest post
    January 25th 2021, 1:20am
  •  
    8
    66
    Last post by AstroSafari.com View the latest post
    April 21st 2021, 9:09am

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby LEVE » August 10th 2010, 1:31am

What's it missing, spark or fuel? Spray some starting fluid into the air intake. If is starts, it's fuel related. If not, it's ignition related.
LEVE
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L2)
Firing on 2 Cylinders (L2)
Years of Membership: LEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full yearsLEVE has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 1281
Topics: 18
Joined: March 2010
Location: On the Palouse
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: AWD 4.3L-W

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby bramwell40 [OP] » August 10th 2010, 1:52am

That is what had my mechanic puzzled. According to him, spark is great and fuel is great. He finally said that if the tune up didn't take care of it, then I would probably have to take it to a dealer that might have more insight. I really wanted to avoid that because the cost is so much.
Some times it starts with the first turn of the key; other times it would take 5 minutes of off and on cranking. today, it wouldn't start at all. The intermittent nature of this just drives me nuts.
I will try the starting fluid in the intake to see what happens.

Thanks

Dave
1995 GMC Safari, 6 cyl. 4.3 L type W engine with 191585 miles, AWD
Original Poster [OP]
User avatar
bramwell40
Fueling (Empty tank)
Fueling (Empty tank)
Years of Membership: bramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 11
Topics: 3
Joined: July 2010
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: 4.3L AWD

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby webcat » August 10th 2010, 1:59am

Not saying that this is your problem but something to think about , when you try to start the vehicle all the time and it does'nt start but you keep trying it gets fuel on your spark plugs and ruins them.
Edit , sorry i did'nt see that you got a tune up.
User avatar
webcat
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 3 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: webcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full yearswebcat has been a member for 12 full years
Posts: 2311
Topics: 253
Joined: September 2008
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Larry aka Rambo
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: g10 5.7L vortec

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby Big_kid » August 10th 2010, 2:53am

webcat wrote:...it gets fuel on your spark plugs and ruins them.
Edit , sorry i did'nt see that you got a tune up.


Doesn't matter how old the plugs are. Ruined is ruined, new or old. Been there, done that, learned the $20.00 lesson.
95 Astro Conversion of unknown irrelevant lineage
We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?
User avatar
Big_kid
Team Leader
Team Leader
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L7)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L7)
Years of Membership: Big_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full yearsBig_kid has been a member for 12 full years
Posts: 6822
Topics: 185
Images: 344
Joined: June 2008
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Model Year: 1995
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: 2WD 5.7 V8

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby bramwell40 [OP] » August 10th 2010, 3:51am

So, maybe this is all a cascading problem. Because of the parasitic drain on the battery, the battery is disconnected each time we stop. The pcm then loses all information and has to relearn it. So, each time we start, the mixture is off, and may be fouling the plugs. That may be why it starts so quickly with new plugs, but as time goes on, it is harder and harder to start. Then, when the plugs become totally fouled, it will not longer start.

So, I have to go back to the beginning and find where the drain is coming from and fix it so I don't have to disconnect the battery anymore. Does that make sense?

Dave
1995 GMC Safari, 6 cyl. 4.3 L type W engine with 191585 miles, AWD
Original Poster [OP]
User avatar
bramwell40
Fueling (Empty tank)
Fueling (Empty tank)
Years of Membership: bramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 11
Topics: 3
Joined: July 2010
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: 4.3L AWD

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby Matrixx » August 10th 2010, 12:31pm

Hi bramwell40

I would look for the drain first as well, get that sorted out and maybe the rest will fall into place (back to normal). You might want to check the glove box for the drain. I had this problem one time and found out I didn't close the glove box properly one night (and the light was still on inside) and it drained the battery over night.

Another place to check is the cigarette lighter, I had the lighter element itself short out and put a drain on the battery. If their is any metallic objects that has managed to find it's way into the lighter chamber, that will short and put a drain on the battery.

All 3 things I have mentioned here, has happened to me. Just a couple of easy places to check first before digging into it.

Also check the luggage Compartment light as well.

Let us know how things are progressing, thanks.:)

PS: Just to clarify here, is that their is "normal" parasitic drain with the newer vehicles. This comes from the computer and radio as it's always fed memory power with or without the ignition being on.

Normal Parasitic Drain is around 7 to 12 mA.
Maximum Parasitic Drain should be around 30 mA (0.030 amps).

:)
96-GMC Safari - Rwd - Original Transmission - Exhaust - Air Cared - 3.73 Limited Slip Rear End - Motor Replaced - 91 octane (Chevron) for the last 14 years - MFI Upgrade - 640,000 Kilometers.
User avatar
Matrixx
AstroSafari Pioneer
AstroSafari Pioneer
Firing on 6 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 6 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: Matrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full yearsMatrixx has been a member for 13 full years
Posts: 2640
Topics: 14
Joined: January 2008
Alias (AKA):

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby kennyj » August 11th 2010, 5:15am

I had this exact problem with my 93 G20 van with a parasitic drain on the battery. If it was parked for more than a week I would notice it in starting. Then in the winter after being parked the battery went fully dead and froze. I replaced it with a new battery and started doing something like you, if the van was going to be parked for more than a day I would disconnect the battery. I never did sort the problem, I got my Astro and the G20 went to the junker.

I believe your year van has a power distribution block near the battery, with a main battery lead and a number of circuit feed wires lugged and bolted onto a terminal block. I would loosen these up and one by one see if any of the feed wires are drawing a noticeable amount of current; you may even see a little arcing from one of them. Or you may need to use a meter to check current draw on each line. Like Matrixx said, a few milliamps would be normal like for the radio or pcm, but anything more than about 30 milliamps would cause a noticeable drain on the battery. Just for reference a single dome light bulb draws about 50 milliamps. If you can isolate a wire that's drawing excessive current then you can start to narrow it down to what part of the van's electrical system that wire feeds.
Image
User avatar
kennyj
250k+ Miles
250k+ Miles
Blue Status (L2)
Blue Status (L2)
Years of Membership: kennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full yearskennyj has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 1046
Topics: 41
Images: 0
Joined: February 2010
Location: Somewhere USA
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Kenny
Van Model Year: 1998
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: 250k+ miles

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby bramwell40 [OP] » August 14th 2010, 5:15pm

Hello all,
Just as an update I thought I would tell you that I took my multimeter out to the van. I placed in inline on the knife switch that is installed to disconnect the battery. I would get a reading of .25 amps. I then started removing fuses one at a time. Nothing happened until I came to the cigarette lighter, dome light circuit. When i removed that, it dropped to zero. This is the block that keeps the clock in time, and powers the dome lights and cigarette lighter. I looked inside the lighter to see if something had dropped inside, but no luck. So, now I need to trace where this drain is coming from on this circuit.

Thanks for all the help.
1995 GMC Safari, 6 cyl. 4.3 L type W engine with 191585 miles, AWD
Original Poster [OP]
User avatar
bramwell40
Fueling (Empty tank)
Fueling (Empty tank)
Years of Membership: bramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 11
Topics: 3
Joined: July 2010
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: 4.3L AWD

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby chevy57bert » August 14th 2010, 9:34pm

I would like to know. what the Max amp drain is?
With engaged Ignition and without....

Thanks Bertjuh.
User avatar
chevy57bert
Section Moderator
Section Moderator
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: chevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 2800
Topics: 69
Images: 68
Joined: July 2009
Location: Enschede The Netherlands
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Bertjuh
Van Model Year: 1992
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: Ext 4.3L rwd

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby bramwell40 [OP] » August 14th 2010, 10:35pm

Well. with the ignition dis-engaged it reads .31
with the ignition engaged it tops at 11.29

This is with the meter set to read dc amps set at 20A
1995 GMC Safari, 6 cyl. 4.3 L type W engine with 191585 miles, AWD
Original Poster [OP]
User avatar
bramwell40
Fueling (Empty tank)
Fueling (Empty tank)
Years of Membership: bramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full yearsbramwell40 has been a member for 10 full years
Posts: 11
Topics: 3
Joined: July 2010
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA):
Van Make/Model: GMC Safari
Extra Info: 4.3L AWD

Re: Another 95 Starting Problem

Postby chevy57bert » August 14th 2010, 10:44pm

bramwell40 wrote:Well. with the ignition dis-engaged it reads .31
with the ignition engaged it tops at 11.29

This is with the meter set to read dc amps set at 20A


Thanks. I write it down.
It`s nice to know, if your battery drains out every day :mrgreen:
User avatar
chevy57bert
Section Moderator
Section Moderator
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Firing on 8 Cylinders (L3)
Years of Membership: chevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full yearschevy57bert has been a member for 11 full years
Posts: 2800
Topics: 69
Images: 68
Joined: July 2009
Location: Enschede The Netherlands
Gender: Male
Alias (AKA): Bertjuh
Van Model Year: 1992
Van Make/Model: Chevrolet Astro
Extra Info: Ext 4.3L rwd


 
  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to Electrical

It is currently April 21st 2021, 9:09am

Electrical Forum
ElectricalDiscussion specific to electric components of vans. Category for alternators or batteries, starters and ignition parts, anything 12v and electrical issue like fuses, circuitry, wire, terminals, switches, connectors, bulbs, relays, and wiring. Voltage and amperage diagnosis.
To create a new topic in Electrical, click this button:
Previous topic Next topic
Recent Image Attachments
Attached by:
Attached by: GaryMacGuyver
GaryMacGuyver
in Electrical
Views: 77
Comments: 2
Date: Apr 10 '21
Time: 11:29am
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Attached by: stent
stent
in Electrical
Views: 1886
Comments: 36
Date: Apr 06 '21
Time: 11:08pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Attached by: stent
stent
in Electrical
Views: 1886
Comments: 36
Date: Apr 06 '21
Time: 9:58pm
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Ken2.7
in Electrical
Views: 1056
Comments: 33
Date: Apr 04 '21
Time: 2:38am
» Read last comment
Attached by:
Attached by: LumaWJ
LumaWJ
in Electrical
Views: 260
Comments: 4
Date: Apr 01 '21
Time: 8:38am
» Read last comment
Sponsors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests