Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

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Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » November 8th 2017, 10:02am

Yea baby! Waymo has gone level 4 in AZ as of mid October, just one more giant leap to level 5.

So freaky watching it drive without a 'safety driver' behind the wheel.



Of course my dream of a level 5 Astro based Tiger GT is probably never going to happen.

I think the best I can hope for is an autonomous diesel Colorado with a custom Tiger based RV layout. Or the VW camper vans(Germans can now get the Marco Polo in a 4wd version, so lucky), these magazines have so much awesomeness in them. Just wish some of them they would bring over here. For now, I will keep on trucking with my Tigers and socking some money away.
CamperVans_das_magazin_fur_kastenwagen_und_campingbusse_num5-2017.png


Super cool stuff...
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby Mmusicman » November 8th 2017, 1:27pm

When bad people start hacking these cars, or the car's electronics start screwing up or failing (yeah that never happens..lol) and these driver-less cars cause accidents and start killing people... there will be massive lawsuits against the manufacturers.

Under unexpected unfamiliar conditions, these cars will fail.

I think it's insanity.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby zzimmer3 » November 8th 2017, 1:44pm

those things are crazy!!!
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby WinnieVan » November 8th 2017, 5:40pm

Mmusicman wrote:Under unexpected unfamiliar conditions, these cars will fail.



3M -- but so do humans -- we can just attribute the failure to a person so it makes a bit less sticky to deal with.

Also -- I think a world of all autonomous vehicles would be safer than a world with all human drivers. Sure -- there will be some fatal accidents either way. But, driving a vehicle is the most dangerous activity most humans partake in -- unless your an deep-sea welder or something.

I think automation will make the world safer. Sure the failures will be different -- which might make them more scary -- but, on average, the world will see less traffic fatalities with autonomous vehicles.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby 1lowcab » November 8th 2017, 7:36pm

or the car's electronics start screwing up or failing



What??? Sensors never fail.....while driving on the freeway...at 70mph..... :shock: :lol:
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby Old Barney » November 8th 2017, 7:50pm

YEH! here in Floriduh there was a auto drive Tesla seems the operator was not paying attention as is instructed to do. There happened to be an unrecognizable Tractor trailer that the Tesla did NOT recognize sooo no automatic breaking. I guess the book he was reading got in the view. Too bad he died but one less not following the rules of the machine. I personally do not like the control every one wants over ME and YOU!! one P'd off programmer could remotely cause too much Mayhem in just a couple two second key strokes. I've seen too many jerks that have ask what would happen if?? Because common sense has gone. One 50 foot mistake in the positioning would/could cause many head on collisions with in seconds. Not for me!!! A mental case like the one in Texas last week. Here in Gainesville Floriduh the students that are constantly changing their mind and taking a right hand turn from the left turning lane. Seen the happen way too many times here. yacking on the cell phone with their left hand while turning into on coming traffic on their left cause their brain didn't register cause the phone was in the way. Yes human error is the worst even from remote control.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby The Drummer » November 8th 2017, 8:03pm

I did watch a very good documentary about self driving cars , and i keep saying it will save a lot more lives than it will take ,but the one thing that struck me as a major moral/legal problem is this : car s driving it self ,on your right side its a wall with an entrance , on your left you have pedestrians on a sidewalk , all the sudden a truck backs up from that entrance on the right ,what should the car dicide or be programed to do ? a. : hit the truck to avoid puting the pedestrians at risk or b.: swerve to the left to save the vehicle s occupants ? , that question alone is a logistical ,moral and legal nightmare ,road conditions like we have here during the winters , snow /slush ,roads covered with snow and ice and no reference points , furd is saying they wont enter that dance till they have level 4 readyness , dunno , time will tell i guess.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby Nomad » November 9th 2017, 4:23am

So no more accidents when putting your winnebago into cruise control and going into the back to make lunch ..

And will you now be able to drink that 6 pack on the way home from work friday night since the vehicle is self driving?
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » November 9th 2017, 4:45am

Nomad wrote:And will you now be able to drink that 6 pack on the way home from work friday night since the vehicle is self driving?

Hopefully they can get rid of the open container laws, so they can stop throwing their bottles/cans out on the highway.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby scorean » November 16th 2017, 7:31am

The Drummer wrote:I did watch a very good documentary about self driving cars , and i keep saying it will save a lot more lives than it will take ,but the one thing that struck me as a major moral/legal problem is this : car s driving it self ,on your right side its a wall with an entrance , on your left you have pedestrians on a sidewalk , all the sudden a truck backs up from that entrance on the right ,what should the car dicide or be programed to do ? a. : hit the truck to avoid puting the pedestrians at risk or b.: swerve to the left to save the vehicle s occupants ? , that question alone is a logistical ,moral and legal nightmare ,road conditions like we have here during the winters , snow /slush ,roads covered with snow and ice and no reference points , furd is saying they wont enter that dance till they have level 4 readyness , dunno , time will tell i guess.

I might have seen the same documentary! I've also read a bunch of articles and papers on the subject. There's a huge thought project behind those ethical questions that tend to go back to a hypothetical moral dilemma that goes like this: you're in charge of the switching panel in a train yard. A school bus filled with children is stuck on one set of tracks and a car with only your child is stuck on the other. A train is coming. You have to switch to one set of tracks which would result in the death of whoever was on those tracks but save the others on the other track. What do you do?
The autonomous car engineers are having those conversations because their cars will essentially face that decision. Is the car supposed to kill it's owner to save others or kill many to save the one? As a consumer, how interested are you in buying a product that is programmed to kill you?
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby scorean » November 16th 2017, 7:37am

I couldn't help but notice that waymo 1 rolled through that stop sign. Technically, if all cars were autonomous, you wouldn't need traffic signals or signs at all...
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby WinnieVan » November 16th 2017, 10:24am

scorean wrote:I couldn't help but notice that waymo 1 rolled through that stop sign. Technically, if all cars were autonomous, you wouldn't need traffic signals or signs at all...


Yup and if there isn't any traffic and you don't need stop signs -- you could make all cars travel a pretty safe 30-40MPH, which would greatly reduce traffic fatalities.

This is a hidden feature of having fully autonomous roads -- lowering the speed but keeping the ETA the same.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » November 16th 2017, 3:10pm

scorean wrote:I couldn't help but notice that waymo 1 rolled through that stop sign. Technically, if all cars were autonomous, you wouldn't need traffic signals or signs at all...

You made me look again, looks like it's just they way they edited the video.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby gavio » November 16th 2017, 7:35pm

Technically, if all cars were autonomous, you wouldn't need traffic signals or signs at all...


Yeah, but how do you get from here to there?...... Especially with all the people like me who will hold out until it's absolutely not possible to drive my own car? Not to mention who's going to pay for everyone to get a self-driving car, I doubt that they will be cheap.......

Personally, I'd a lot rather see driver's education that is actually good become a mandatory thing for everyone..... In California, most of the instruction is done by the parents, and given how the parents drive, that just makes me cringe...... Driver's Ed should be more like Race Driving School, so people learn how to not hit things and how to determine how fast to go, rather than just learning how to obey signs.....
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » November 16th 2017, 8:03pm

Self driving cars aren't going to completely replace our human driven cars. It will be an option, just like everything else. Not everyone will need a self driving car, most vehicles spend a HUGE amount of time not being used, just sitting there in a parking lot or driveway, so fewer shared vehicles can service more people. Just like I don't take my RV/truck/motorcycle/ATV everywhere, they have their uses for specific trips/tasks just like a self driving vehicle will have their uses.

I don't think anyone will be directly forced to give up their vehicles. Unfortunately, once they (far?) exceed the safety of human drivers(not asking much), the holdouts will probably be priced out because their insurance is going to skyrocket. There will be a smaller pool to draw from so the rates are going to go up anyway, and then when you are however times more likely to have an accident then a self driving car they will use that to justify the premium increase.

Gotta remember that most of us drivers THINK we are really good drivers, but half are below average drivers ;)
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby scoundrel2u » November 16th 2017, 10:30pm

Unfortunately, I have seen the latest auto pilot for the marine industry. :eek:

This boat's auto pilot failed after only being 2 years old... and still under factory warranty. This is a locally manufactured, high end, luxury recreational vessel. http://www.rangertugs.com/

When it malfunctioned, regardless of cruise speed, it gives you full rudder to either portside or starboard and disengages the throttle. It pitches the passengers both forward and sideways all at once. :o

These little tugs look like they would be slow, and limited to displacement speed, so not that big of a deal... right?
Nope... They get up on a plane (semi-planing hull lurking beneath the water line) and can cruise at 2 and 3 times what one would think. Load it up with the family and pets, twist it up to 20 + kts, set the auto pilot... life is good. :thumbup:

Wear your coast guard approved PFDs (life jackets)! ;) Man overboard...

Imagine what that would be like in a passenger vehicle, cruising at 70 mph. :2:
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » April 23rd 2019, 5:23am

Looks like they are really starting to rack up the self-driven miles on these.
March 2018 it was 5 million miles on public roads.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsma ... e993d41ef4
October 2018 it was 10 million miles on public roads.
https://medium.com/waymo/where-the-next ... 51bebb67d3

At that rate they should have easily surpassed 20million miles so far.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby 90safari » April 25th 2019, 1:10am

Still not sure I trust them. Not to mention I still have enough old junk I can still drive until I kick the bucket.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby AstroWill [OP] » April 25th 2019, 5:59am

They are only about 2x as safe as a human driver right now, and that will only improve. The Tesla Autonomy Day video was quite interesting, amazing how everything is redundant, basically two of everything. One computer fails, there is a backup, cut one power line, there is a backup, main battery pack dies, there is backup.

Impressive what they are doing and how fast they are ramping up. Supposed to be offering their own insurance in about a month as well. With the amount of data they have on individual drivers, should be a lot easier to rate them.

Skip the first 70minutes or so.
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Re: Fully self driving cars are way off... oh wait.

Postby icebrrg3rd » April 25th 2019, 10:24pm

AstroWill wrote:They are only about 2x as safe as a human driver right now, and that will only improve...


But what happens when they deem the 3 laws unconstitutional...?

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Date: Oct 23 '20
Time: 10:10pm
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Views: 126
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Date: Oct 23 '20
Time: 10:08pm
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