The '05 New Driver

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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby safariking » February 2nd 2020, 8:33pm

just a thought your security light isn't flashing by chance
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby AstroWill » February 2nd 2020, 8:58pm

That really sucks. I feel for you.


safariking wrote:just a thought your security light isn't flashing by chance

That would have ZERO to do with the fuel pump/pressure.

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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 2nd 2020, 11:41pm

Astrofarian wrote:I feel for you, Leeann. I've never done an Astro/Safari fuel pump with less than half a tank of fuel. But if you use 10' of garden hose (without the fittings, of course) you can siphon down to about 1/8 of a tank in 15 minutes or so...it REALLY makes that tank easier to horse around with under there. Not that this is a terribly HARD job (as you already know, sadly), it's just a PITA to get under there and get started on.
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Yep, the Bravada had an almost-full tank, but I was able to drive it short distances for a week to use up most of the tank. That pump worked cold but not hot, so I could do up to 20 min drives. By the time I dropped it, it only had about 4 gals in the tank. This pump, of course, had to be totally dead. I still haven't slid underneath to look at the connector or ground, but I just finished the Jeep before it started getting dark.

On my Astros, I've only dropped the tank enough to get my hands in there, once to replace the fuel tank pressure sender and once to replace the flex fuel lines. I definitely plan to siphon as much fuel out as I can before I start because I don't really feel like wrangling a tank with at least 20 gals of fuel in it. The low-boy trans jack from hf and the old floor jack with a short board on it should make dropping the tank relatively easy. I have the new AC Delco pump from Winnie, a new electrical harness just in case and a new lock ring. I just have to be careful disconnecting the flex lines so the lock parts don't explode like they did on the white van. Of course, if all else fails, I'll grab the braided flex lines (and the rear hard lines, if necessary) from the white van. It's not like I can drive it....sigh.


While I was reinstalling the passenger wheel of the Jeep this afternoon, my pressman called. He has a 2013 Camaro with the 6.2L V8. When he was driving home Friday (he only drives it to work on Fridays), it started running ROUGH and the traction control light came on. His SILs brother came over with his computer today and it's throwing P0304, so he replaced the plug, coil and wire. No change. It runs fine, then there's a POP and it runs like crap. Shut it off, restart it and it runs fine until there's a POP and it runs like crap. It sounds like what the white '02 was doing (except for the traction control light, of course) before the #4 injector totally failed electrically. I had an intermittent P0304 and it would run rough, then clear up, then rough....
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby MechBob » February 3rd 2020, 1:40am

Bummer,Leanne. More the reason to put a hatch in the floor,lol. But, on the Camaro, if it actually "pops" in intake or exhaust, then you might be getting a false signal from the knock sensor/crank sensor, for the missfire. The problem could be a different cylinder. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 3rd 2020, 2:28am

MechBob wrote:Bummer,Leanne. More the reason to put a hatch in the floor,lol. But, on the Camaro, if it actually "pops" in intake or exhaust, then you might be getting a false signal from the knock sensor/crank sensor, for the missfire. The problem could be a different cylinder. Just my 2 cents.


Huh. That's a good thought. I'll tell him tomorrow. Thanks, Bob ;)
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 9th 2020, 10:36pm

He pulled the #2 plug and it was black. Not oil, not wet with gas, just burnt, sorta like scorched. He planned to replace that injector, plus plug, coil and wire this weekend so we'll see how it went tomorrow. Good call on the adjacent cylinder, Bob - #4 looked perfect, but he replaced the plug, wire and coil anyway and there was no change.

As for my van, I almost got it to start twice. I'm trying not to get sick like my boss (a-strain flu that turned into double pneumonia), so I didn't want to do much, especially not outside. Slid underneath and cleaned the fuel pump ground again, plus disconnected, cleaned and reconnected the electrical harness. Whacked the tank and the van started for a millisecond or two. Whacked it again, same result. I was by myself, so I couldn't whack it while the key was on for prime, but I take what did happen as a sign the pump is dead. Pushed the inspection camera up there and got two really terrible pics, plus a whiff of gas.

Guess I'm doing fuel lines along with the pump:
01_Nasty.jpg


Looks like only the back portion of the rear lines are bad:
02_NastyNice.jpg


Oh, well. I can pull them from the white '02 and move them over.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 22nd 2020, 11:47pm

Didn't do much today, but I did get started. We went out to breakfast, then our nephew came over for a couple hours.

I got the van jacked up and chocked, the filler neck removed, 10 gals of gas siphoned out of the tank, the driver's side bolts broken loose and the driveshaft side bolts hosed down with PB - twice. Oh, and the transmission jack under the tank and between the straps and supporting the tank to make loosening the bolts a little easier (I hope). I put 3 layers of plastic wrap over the end of the filler hose and put the hose clamp back on, so that's sealed for overnight.

Even unbolting and removing the filler neck (2x7mm bolts inside the fuel door, 1x13mm bolt for the strap, 2x5/16" hose clamp bolts), I couldn't get the larger hose with jiggler siphon into the tank, so I used itty-bitty hose we have on a spool. So siphoning 10 gals took a while...like over an hour and a half. It was worth it, though, because that's about 70lbs out of the tank. I could have siphoned out more, but the other 5 gal can had oil sludge in the bottom and it would have taken me quite a while to get that clean.

01_Siphon.jpg


I had put Corroseal on the part of the filler neck I could get to while I was putting it on nearby stuff, but there was a lot I couldn't easily get to while it was installed, as you can see:
02_FillerNeck.jpg


I did remove both hose clamps on the short piece of hose between the filler neck and the tank, but I couldn't easily pop the hose off the tank fitting so I just left it for the moment:
03_SiphonUnder.jpg


The tank-side clamp has a hook to hold it in the right place on the hose and neck:
04_FillerClamps.jpg


The sun was going down and it was getting colder at that point, so I put my toys inside the van and closed it up, then got my drill/driver and a wire wheel to clean up the filler neck, then put 2 coats of Corroseal on it
05_FillerCured.jpg


Tomorrow I'll go out and hose down the driveshaft-side strap bolts again, then get everything else out and ready, then work on getting them loose.

Oh - I ohmed out the fuel pump by pulling the fuel pump relay and sticking the probe into pin #30 and on the battery ground before I started, just in case there was a miracle, and it was 48 ohms and counting when I turned off the meter. A good pump should show about 2.8 ohms. Guess that's why it's deader'n a doornail.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Big_kid » February 23rd 2020, 1:32am

Looks like you made some good progress today. Fingers crossed all goes well tomorrow.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby MechBob » February 23rd 2020, 3:31am

Sorry,haven't checked in a while, would be nice if this site tracked threads you are watching, and gave notices. You do such nice work,Leannne. Ya, I have used the small hose trick, is woth the wait to remove the weight,I agree. Oh,i never said "adjacent" cylinder, but usually it is the cylinder before what the code says. In the firing order. Usually on the opposite side. That is about the camaro. Oh, you do know there are fuel line repair kits, for rusted/damaged ends?
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 23rd 2020, 4:42am

Thanks, guys.

I get emails from the site, notifying me of replies in any thread where I have posted or are the OP. Check your settings in your User Control Panel about notifications.

I do know there are repair kits, but I had bought and installed new rear lines on the ‘02 not terribly long before I got the ‘05. Why waste new lines?

Turned out to be the injector on #4 after all. He replaced it (said the tip was black, all other injectors were clean) and all was well until Thursday, when it ran like crap again idling at a light after a few minutes of highway driving, until he revved it for a second or two, then it all cleared back up and has been fine since. He put a bottle of Techron in Friday evening and was planning to replace the fuel filter Saturday, but he said it’s a helluva job on that Camaro.


I need to remember to disconnect the battery before going any further. So, disconnect battery, unclip fuel pump wiring harness, unbolt ground wire, lower the tank slightly, disconnect the evap and fuel line quick connects, then get it on the ground so I can swap out the full hanger assembly and get the van moving under its own power again. I miss it.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby MechBob » February 23rd 2020, 5:11am

Ah, i rarely turn on email, only if something important I am waiting for. i am talking about, when logging onto website, it gives me notifications about threads i am watching/ have responded to. Astrosafari is the only site i have seen that does not do this. Ya,Techron is still great, a good #2, BG44k is still the best/king, but always use it at the proper dilution!. You do realize most vehicles no longer have a fuel filter?(Ya,I do not like it). But, USA standards on fuel are way stricter. But, all it takes is a little screw up, and you need to revamp the entire injection system!! There is 0 power to fuel tank, but unhooking battery is redundant safety, which is good.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 23rd 2020, 2:55pm

Ah. Nope, I don't think phpBB does that. Other types of forum software do.

We can't get BG44K in stores here. I have bought some from a seller on Amazon, but it takes a few days to arrive. Yep, unfortunately, I do know that - the filter in my '05 Jeep Liberty is a part of the pump. Morons. His Camaro, however, does have a separate fuel filter, it's just hard to get to. Everything is on a vehicle that sits like 5" off the ground, but this is in a place where having small hands would come in handy, and he has rather large hands.

I like redundant safety. Especially when I'm here alone working on stuff, and fuel + spark = no bueno.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby AstroWill » February 23rd 2020, 3:38pm

Leeann_93 wrote:the filter in my '05 Jeep Liberty is a part of the pump. Morons.

That kinda crap really can make things suck when you have an issue.

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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 24th 2020, 2:55am

It's done. Phew. I'm really, really, really sore....but I took my time.

Put Eastwood Rust Encapsulator on the fuel fill neck...three light coats on top of the 3 coats of Corroseal.

01_First Coat.jpg

02_SecondCoat.jpg


While that was drying, I changed my mind and got as much of the oil sludge out of the 4th fuel can as I could, then filled it up
03_SiphonAgain.jpg


It's a 10L can and I filled above the line, so I took out about 13 gals of gas in total.

Then I disconnected the battery
04_BatteryDiscon.jpg


And brought out the fuel pump box with everything in it
05_GoodiesWaiting.jpg


Disconnected the fuel pump harness and fed the pump side through the hole so it wouldn't hang up when dropping the tank.
06_PumpDiscon.jpg


Then disconnected the evap lines
07_EvapDIscon.jpg


Got the first of the two fuel lines properly disconnected (the fuel line didn't crush and the connector didn't disintegrate - yay!)
08_FuelLineDiscon-1.jpg


Then I loosened the driveshaft-side tank strap bolts a bit with this magic tool
09_MagicTool.jpg


Cranked up the trans jack so it was supporting the weight, then removed the driveshaft-side tank strap bolts and rotated the straps out of the way
10_RotatingStraps.jpg


Lowered the tank a little bit with the ½" ratchet
11_LoweringTank.jpg


Then used my big pry bar to push the driveshaft-side heat shield enough out of the way to disconnect the second fuel line
12_FuelLineDiscon-2.jpg


Now I used the 3" extension on the impact with it set at speed #1 reverse (it has 3 speeds in both directions) to gently lower the tank so I could get the fuel fill hose around the parking brake cable
13_AlmostDown.jpg


And get it down, putting a couple chunks of wood underneath so the push pins wouldn't put holes in my coroplast
14_Down.jpg


Then slid the trans jack out from under and got the tank out from under the van by pulling it on the coroplast (easier sliding), moving it around to get it out without fouling anything.
15_Filthy.jpg


Pretty dirty on top, as expected.

So I hit it with the blower nozzle a little
16_Cleaning.jpg


Then rubbed with a rag and blew it clean more. Sprayed PB Blaster around the lock ring, then drove it off with a brass drift and BFH
17_LockRingOff.jpg


Gasket isn't bad, but the lock ring was toast
18_LockRingGasket.jpg


Took a bit of finagling/finessing to get the old pump out of the tank - I guess the plastic swelled a teeny bit - but, once out, I compared it to the new pump. Yep, they're different...I don't see where to install a strainer. So I didn't. It slid easily into the tank
19_Different.jpg

20_InTank.jpg


Then I got the new gasket and lock ring installed
21_LockRingInstalled.jpg


Then worked on the wiring harness conversion
22_WiringHarnessConversion.jpg


Got the wires soldered and heat shrunk, then everything installed back in place
23_AllInstalled.jpg


At this point, I was rather tired and incredibly grumpy and sore, and working the tank up enough to get the trans jack underneath to get it up enough to get the straps started and get the fuel lines reconnected and the evap hoses reconnected and the fuel pump wiring harness reconnected and....anyway, installation was reverse of removal. Yeah, that's it.

Put 5 gals in (I think there might have been 1-2 gals in the tank when dropped), reconnected the battery, crossed my fingers and toes and said a prayer, then turned the key. Instant fuel pressure (and I faintly heard the pump run). Turned off the key, ran prime cycle again - and twice more. Then I turned the key, saw 62psi on the gauge, and VROOOOOOOOMMMMMMM.
24_ItsAlive.jpg


I let it run for 10 mins while I started cleaning up my mess, then shut it off and put 5 more gals back in to turn off the low fuel light. Then started it up (VROOOM instantly) and let it run while I cleaned up more of my mess.

Now I am enjoying beer and thinking about how sore I'm going to be tomorrow at work....I still have to disconnect the fuel pressure gauge and reinstall the doghouse, but she's running smoothly and quietly. Phew.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Big_kid » February 24th 2020, 12:29pm

So, what'd you do after lunch?

Nice job, and equally nice writeup! Thanks for taking the time to do it!
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby 90safari » February 25th 2020, 8:13pm

Agreed. Very nice write up, and detailed photos. So what was different between the new pump set up, versus the old one? What was different with the wiring, that caused you to have to change the end? Was it a change that GM did? Sorry for the questions, but I've never worked on a pump change on any GM built after 1997.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Leeann_93Leeann_93 is online! [OP] » February 25th 2020, 10:55pm

There's nowhere on the new one to install a strainer.

The old, 'four square' connector was prone to arcing and burning, so GM redesigned the connector to be a flat four. All new pumps have the new connector, so they all come with a wiring harness to splice in.
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby Rockridge » February 25th 2020, 11:04pm

Nice work LeeAnn!
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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby AstroWill » February 26th 2020, 2:55am

Nice write-up and pictures as always Leeann!

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Re: The '05 New Driver

Postby 90safari » February 27th 2020, 7:57pm

Leeann_93 wrote:There's nowhere on the new one to install a strainer.

The old, 'four square' connector was prone to arcing and burning, so GM redesigned the connector to be a flat four. All new pumps have the new connector, so they all come with a wiring harness to splice in.

OK Thanks.
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